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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Topic: Electric midget
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linbob
December 19, 2021 at 06:54:56 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1518
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This is a question, please do not call me a nazi commy for asking.  Has anyone  considered a electric midget.  I am told it would easy to build car.  Get electric motor out of a w recked car, hook it to drive shaft, do batteries.  Would it be  legal?



Murphy
December 19, 2021 at 07:11:04 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 2336
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Reply to:
Posted By: linbob on December 19 2021 at 06:54:56 PM

This is a question, please do not call me a nazi commy for asking.  Has anyone  considered a electric midget.  I am told it would easy to build car.  Get electric motor out of a w recked car, hook it to drive shaft, do batteries.  Would it be  legal?



Probably not legal as every set of rules seems to start out with an internal combustion engine.

Probably not competitive, as the battery required to make the horsepower needed to compete probably puts the car at too big of a weight disadvantage.

Battery duration would have to be a factor as well. "Folks- it's time to hit the beer stand, as we need to throw a red to let the car charge for a bit."

On the bright side, the cars would be as quiet as my wife's Prius. The driver's could hear the insults being shouted by other drivers. ;)



Jake B.
December 19, 2021 at 07:39:07 PM
Joined: 10/21/2005
Posts: 450
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Reply to:
Posted By: linbob on December 19 2021 at 06:54:56 PM

This is a question, please do not call me a nazi commy for asking.  Has anyone  considered a electric midget.  I am told it would easy to build car.  Get electric motor out of a w recked car, hook it to drive shaft, do batteries.  Would it be  legal?



Yes, it's been considered.  I recall Casey Shuman hot-lapping one maybe a decade ago (I wanna say in Florida but I'm not 100% certain).  As for legal...I would guess not.  As Murphy mentioned there aren't any rules for electric power.  I'm not sure if the weight is as big of an issue as Murphy thinks, and with no testing on power output it might be too easy to build an electric car that would far out-power existing IC engines.  I posted my opinion on the coming of electric dirt track racing several months ago and got crushed by our HHMB friends.  I'm telling you...don't be shocked if it happens.


Signature here.

FORD97
December 19, 2021 at 09:56:33 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1745
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Posted By: Jake B. on December 19 2021 at 07:39:07 PM

Yes, it's been considered.  I recall Casey Shuman hot-lapping one maybe a decade ago (I wanna say in Florida but I'm not 100% certain).  As for legal...I would guess not.  As Murphy mentioned there aren't any rules for electric power.  I'm not sure if the weight is as big of an issue as Murphy thinks, and with no testing on power output it might be too easy to build an electric car that would far out-power existing IC engines.  I posted my opinion on the coming of electric dirt track racing several months ago and got crushed by our HHMB friends.  I'm telling you...don't be shocked if it happens.



"Don't be shocked if it happens." 

That's some good safety advice as well...


Unless I know you, I don't care what you think.

alum.427
December 20, 2021 at 06:36:32 AM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1217
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Battery weight and run time are the key ingredients and I don't see how they could do it. My 48 volt golf cart runs 39mph, with a gear and 14" tires. The drive motor and batteries get really hot if I push it hard. My run time, again if pushing it, is about 6 to 7 miles. 



rolldog
MyWebsite
December 20, 2021 at 09:30:19 AM
Joined: 08/01/2013
Posts: 391
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Formula E has been running electric vehicles since 2014.  Power output was originally 200-250 HP but that has increased with better batteries.  I think they originally had a red flag for recharging but they have improved the batteries so that is not necessary any longer.  Races are short - 45 minutes roughly.

Formula E adds a charge to the batteries during braking; not sure if that power is needed during the race or not, but midgets probably aren't as hard on the brakes and thus wouldn't recharge the batteries.

I'd be nervous about a wreck and fire, but if the Formual E cars are safe (and at much higher speeds), it would probably be ok for midgets.  Very weird though, without the engine noise.  The air would certainly be cleaner at the Chili Bowl.



revjimk
December 20, 2021 at 11:50:40 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6823
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This message was edited on December 20, 2021 at 11:58:15 AM by revjimk
Reply to:
Posted By: FORD97 on December 19 2021 at 09:56:33 PM

"Don't be shocked if it happens." 

That's some good safety advice as well...



Good one.... ;)



revjimk
December 20, 2021 at 11:57:48 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6823
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https://youtu.be/vzCte4D09FY



revjimk
December 20, 2021 at 12:00:02 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6823
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https://youtu.be/ho4xdJvmrnA



Hawker
December 20, 2021 at 01:52:43 PM
Joined: 11/23/2004
Posts: 2785
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on December 20 2021 at 12:00:02 PM

https://youtu.be/ho4xdJvmrnA



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za9Fo3SiCjE

 


Member of this message board since 1997

Murphy
December 21, 2021 at 07:10:32 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 2336
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Posted By: revjimk on December 20 2021 at 12:00:02 PM

https://youtu.be/ho4xdJvmrnA



Off topic, but look at the fence and track opening in turn #1 in the Bubba's video. If the posts don't stop a car instantly in it's tracks, it would probably go through the fence and flatten those spectators standing there.



PorschePeteTx
December 21, 2021 at 09:07:36 AM
Joined: 07/22/2008
Posts: 785
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Already in karting, maybe the next step is an electric TQ midget series or a new class in the Micro/Mini Sprint class somewhere.

I think midgets are safe for probably close to a decade.

 



rob t.
MyWebsite
December 21, 2021 at 09:34:25 AM
Joined: 01/06/2005
Posts: 40
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This message was edited on December 21, 2021 at 09:36:17 AM by rob t.

Check out the Flo Racing Segment at the PRI show.  There is 3 to 5 minute video on the electric cars at the show which included two beautiful vehicles retrofitted with electric motors that included a yellow 1957 Chevy and a 1974 Pick up Truck.  It ends with video of the electric midget that Casey Shuman drove.  Really gets you thinking.  Highly recommend watching.  Really great reporting.   

Title of Flo Segment:  "What We Saw At PRI May Shock You!!"   



linbob
December 21, 2021 at 06:28:50 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1518
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Posted By: rolldog on December 20 2021 at 09:30:19 AM

Formula E has been running electric vehicles since 2014.  Power output was originally 200-250 HP but that has increased with better batteries.  I think they originally had a red flag for recharging but they have improved the batteries so that is not necessary any longer.  Races are short - 45 minutes roughly.

Formula E adds a charge to the batteries during braking; not sure if that power is needed during the race or not, but midgets probably aren't as hard on the brakes and thus wouldn't recharge the batteries.

I'd be nervous about a wreck and fire, but if the Formual E cars are safe (and at much higher speeds), it would probably be ok for midgets.  Very weird though, without the engine noise.  The air would certainly be cleaner at the Chili Bowl.



I am pretty sure they do not recharge batteries, they switch to a second car at pit stops.    To me part of racing is the sound of cars, it is music.  A silent race would be like watching my wife sew on a sewing machine.   I hope they do not form a new electric car midget series.  We have way to many classes of cars now that diluets each class down.  Let them run with reg. midgets as an experiment.  I sure am glad I was born way back when, the future can look scary. 



Dryslick Willie
December 22, 2021 at 05:35:27 AM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 1980
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on December 21 2021 at 07:10:32 AM

Off topic, but look at the fence and track opening in turn #1 in the Bubba's video. If the posts don't stop a car instantly in it's tracks, it would probably go through the fence and flatten those spectators standing there.



Very true, and noone will give a crap until it actually kills somebody



HardTopDave
December 22, 2021 at 05:36:22 AM
Joined: 03/21/2021
Posts: 140
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This message was edited on December 22, 2021 at 12:31:59 PM by HardTopDave

Given the crashes a midget will get into, a lithium fire is a given.  Just stop the race and spend the next 3 hours putting the fire out, and carting the dead bodies away.  The safety of an electric midget = 0



JonR
December 22, 2021 at 08:20:32 AM
Joined: 05/28/2008
Posts: 821
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There is definitely going to be an electric racing series in the future.   GM has stated that they want an all electric fleet by 2035.   Almost all of the new car models that they are introducing are electric cars.   It only makes sense that when GM reaches its target, it will want a racing series that races what they are producing.    When/How that gets translated to the local dirt track is to be seen, but it will be happening.   #IWorkForGM



Dryslick Willie
December 22, 2021 at 09:51:37 AM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 1980
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Reply to:
Posted By: HardTopDave on December 22 2021 at 05:36:22 AM

Given the crashes a midget will get into, a lithium fire is a given.  Just stop the race and spend the next 3 hours putting the fire out, and carting the dead bodies away.  The safety of an electric midget = 0



I fly electric RC airplanes with lithium batteries.   A small 2.2 amp battery only 5" long and 1 1/2" thick produces a huge fire, enough to take out a house.  Most fires happen with improper charging, but even a single cell gets nicked in a crash and it can go up.    



HardTopDave
December 22, 2021 at 12:30:12 PM
Joined: 03/21/2021
Posts: 140
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Posted By: Dryslick Willie on December 22 2021 at 09:51:37 AM

I fly electric RC airplanes with lithium batteries.   A small 2.2 amp battery only 5" long and 1 1/2" thick produces a huge fire, enough to take out a house.  Most fires happen with improper charging, but even a single cell gets nicked in a crash and it can go up.    



So something the size of a small book can burn your house down.  Thats because lithium burns at 1700 deg F, and thats why so many people die in Tesla's that burn, the fire wins instantly



HardTopDave
December 22, 2021 at 12:33:11 PM
Joined: 03/21/2021
Posts: 140
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Posted By: JonR on December 22 2021 at 08:20:32 AM

There is definitely going to be an electric racing series in the future.   GM has stated that they want an all electric fleet by 2035.   Almost all of the new car models that they are introducing are electric cars.   It only makes sense that when GM reaches its target, it will want a racing series that races what they are producing.    When/How that gets translated to the local dirt track is to be seen, but it will be happening.   #IWorkForGM



Never gonna happen....



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