Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
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I do remember around 71' or 72', when I got my first pit passes at OKC, if you wore white pants the pit pass was $4. If you didn't wear white pants the "penalty" was a $5 pit pass!! Still a bargain. Of course then you could build a pretty decent super-mod engine from scratch for about $4000.

I see where the BIG winners purse at Lawton Winternats was $1000. In 78' we won the OKC Winrternationals at OKC with MP driving & won $2000 in 78' dollars!! I guess this is progress.

1971, $4 = $21 and change in 2010 dollars

1971, $4,000 engine= $21,289 in 2010 dollars

1978, $2,000= $6,600 and change in 2010 dollars.

Was at T-Bird Sat. night for ASCS Sooner Reg. Sprint Show and those $35 Pit Passes took a toll , only had about 6 more cars in count in 3 other classes than they did in the one class of ASCS Sprints, I think they had a total of 35 cars in count in the 3 classes and sprints had 29 in their one class.

Pricing the local/working man racer out of the business with Pit Pass prices like they had Sat. night at Muskogee.

J.D.

Here is a question to ask some of you all.

Shocks are so critical in today's racing, valving for all kinds of conditions and for each corner of the car,winged/non winged/asphalt and the list goes on.

My first 100" car I bought in 87 had Carrera's and a few Koni's with it , only had about 7 shocks and most all were just straight 4's,5's and even had a 6 as well, rear's were 9" and fronts were 7" , curious what some guys ran in the 70's for shocks??. Maybe Springs and T Bars were more important back then??

J.D.

This is Ray I am back,I would like to thank everybody for all the prayers and messages. JD in the 70s we used just standard shocks, tried to get the heavy duty ones and I remember one time we had some that would click 2 times and every-time made them stiffer, we thought that was about as far as you could go on shocks. Normally would replace them when they got bent or torn up in a wreck

Thanks again

Ray

JD,

Very first modified I worked on had just 4 plain old shocks off an old chrysler New Yorker. First real shocks that we used at DP's were some Gabriel Adjustables they were white and red and we cut the outer covers off on some of them. You could push them all the way in and turn the shock eye and it had 3 positions soft, medium & hard, I don't really remember what setting we used and half the time I couldn't tell the difference from one click to the other. Along about the mid to late 70's the Old Man had some Koni's and Carrera's started appearing, when Tony Pressley and I rebuilt his Walker car and converted it to a coil FRT we bought some coil over shocks from some company out of PHX, I don't remember the name but they were pretty helpful and really the shocks they sent were pretty nice by those days standards. Pretty soon Carrera had those 3 way adjustable shocks like a Gabriel and again I couldn't tell much difference from 1 setting to another. The first race shocks that I used that I thought were really adjustable and worked good were the Carrera 5008RF & 5008LR we ran them on the #10 Hill & Kearney special and I can tell you for a fact they made a difference in the way the car worked. I believe MP would agree with me on that also, as far as bars go hell back then you just bought them from Halibrand or Nance or CAE/ARC and ran them, never thought 1 thing about 1 975 bar being differant then another 975, my racing was so much simpler back then. In early to mid 80's we really started paying attension to shocks and bars but there was still alot of races being won even then that was pretty convensional stuff. When CRD first came out with there bars I personnally thought they were quality wise alot better then anything around but I have had alot of racers tell me they didn't have any luck with CRD's. Along the line when Pro shocks came about you could buy a 4 shock this week and buy another the next week and they appeared to be the same performance wise but somewhere along the line all shock and bar manufactures either lost pride in there work or the demand for there product hurt there quality control, not any differant in the tire business either. When I became involved with DJ I had not been involved actively in sprint cars since Gary and I had raced in the late 90's early 2000. I could not understand how much difference there was in shocks and bars in those 4 or 5 years. DJ was on an AFCO deal and he had quite a few but there was no consistence in them, so being an old PRO guy I started switching him over to them, I had a bad taste in my mouth with the AFCO's that we used in 2005/2006 so in 2007 we started down the path with the PRO's well that was about the dumbest move I ever made, what I really needed to do was find a shock dyno. at the end of 2007 we weren't any better off then before, so during the winter of 2007 I took every shock AFCO and Pro DJ had and found a dyno and ran all 22 shocks we had and found out there aren't to many bad shocks as there is just no consistence in the manufactures number system from one shock to another. Well this leads to todays world and if you don't have a shock guy or somebody doing your shocks that you can trust it makes it DAMN TOUGH for a racer to run up front consistently. There are in town and over in Tulsa a couple of guys that are pretty good with shocks and a few locals have there own shock dyno's and that is a big advantage on the long run. Shocks and bars are an ever changing world and I think your going to see more and more gas shocks coming which in away is good as it may lower the price some but right now it isn't hard to spend over a thousand on 4 gas shocks. All it takes is 1 good rock or hop a wheel and you have just spent a couple hundred bucks. Sure alot different then going to Sears and buying an adjustamatic for $9.00!!!!!!!!!!

As a side note hope all is well with you and family, hope Ray getting better also!!!!

 

David, I had a couple of those adj. Koni's with first 100" car I had and I could'nt tell any difference in them when you pushed them all the way in and clicked them to a different position,was not much variation.

Yep bunch of difference from then to today at Dallas Winter Nat. this past weekend , seemed to me the Super Shox Rep. must of been there as I seen more guys running them than anytime before , those gas cannister ones ,the $300 each shocks, I believe Lasoski had a set on the 1M car that won , I also feel that the Penske's Sean Mc. ran all year on OCRS helped him win the deal as well over Whit,seemed his car was more consistent the whole year and LUCK played into that as well but I feel the shocks helped him as well stay consistent and your right about big expense per corner, $300+ per corner,lot of loot to hang out there exposed and get hit or ?? and it is off to get it rebuilt and if it can be rebuilt.Price of racing today I guess.

Good to see David back on here and get well soon Ray.

J.D.

Hi everbody I am getting better by the day, my wife says that I am taller and am getting aroung better each time that I get up. I get the staples out tommorrow, there are over 50 of them, wish me luck. thank you for all your prayers.

Ray

Does anyone remember the water pump adapter that Walt McWhorter used to manufacture? It allowed a Chev. 6 cylinder water pump to fit a V8 to run on Supers. I seem to remember he said it flowed better and gave more room on the front of the motor. I havn't seen one since the 70's and wonder who ended up with the molds, etc.

I had forgotten all about that system that Walt built. In 76/77 the 71 was having bad over heating problems an Norman went to Walt and had one of his systems put on. I don't remember what water pump was used but this system had heater hoses coming out of the freeze plug area and some other things that were different. It stopped most of the problems but when Norman moved to Tulsa and had some engines that were built here he used the standard Chevy pump, we never did talk about it so I don't know why he didn't use Walt's designs anymore.

Did Walt build his own engines? He could do everything else.

Ray

Ray,

I had 2 of Walt's set-up the worked good, big thing for me was it lowered the fan down into the center of the radiator so I could build a better shroud around it, also I believe the 6 cyl pump slowed the water down too. On the standard V8 pumps I had to cut 3 of the blades off to slow the water down but the fan was still to high to the radiator. I know Walt built alot of his own motors I believe Wilson might have done some of the machine work, seems like maybe Cecil Apple also might have helped him out early on. Walt could do about anything and in my opinion he was one of the best low profile tire racer's!!!!1

I'm pretty sure Cecil Appel is still alive and in Great Bend. The Machine shop is still on w highway 56. I don't know if he is still involved in it but I would bet maybe he is?? You know how ole gear heads are.

Pretty much all of those Great Bend dirt trackers that are left are into the drag racing scene I think. I had a trailer pass me here in McPherson last weekend. It had on the side Chris Kowalsky. Of course the first thing that hit me was a grandson to Terry Kowalsky. That is just how I think. It was a drag car in an enclosed trailer headed east on 56.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Ya know just wanted to say that I have been reading the hoseheads main message board and all the deal about Jason Sides a WoO driver sueing the World Racing Ground (WRG) (WoO Group) for not getting his full payment of pt. fund money because he raced at another race that was not a WoO sanctioned show and now the WRG is sueing Jason Sides as I just read today.

Sure makes me wonder what it has come down to when you get to a certain level of racing, MONEY and only MONEY is it.

I mean what ever happened to just go and race and show up where ever and now it is signed contracts and no compete clauses and so on and this pertains to nothing but money, just wonder how much longer it all will keep surviving, watch some Nascar races and attendance is WAY down, at TMS this past weekend , lots and lots of empty seats, Indy Car racing is no better off by any means, I guess the WoO is doing ok with attendance and as you move on down to local racing , it has and will continue to struggle with weekly racing and tracks closing down and it sure does not look to be a sport with a very bright future, costs so much to compete in racing and even cost a bunch to attend Racing Events, also just read in AARN Racing Paper an Article by Gary London who writes for Nascar and other papers across the Nation saying racing is awful these days from no passing to no innovation and rips into the Speed Channel for lousy motorsports coverage and not focusing on racing and how they focus on glitz and glam and TV announcers personalities mean more that the racing itself, just more or less rips into the sport of Auto Racing as a whole.

Just makes you stop and wonder and think "What the heck is going on with the Sport of Racing right now.

J.D.

J.D.

The Golden days of racing are gone forever. Dirt Track racing was riding hi in the 70s-80s. Nascar peaked in the 1995-2005, there are a lot of empty seat at their show now. At the Bristol night race you used to have to buy tickets from a scalper, now Nascar is still selling them right up to race-time. I don't no what to do about racing but the coverage on speed Nascar shows is really bad. They need to replay the Bob Jenkins, Ned Jarrett and Benny arson show from ESPN to see the right way to do it. Does anybody remember Thursday Night Thunder on ESPN or American Sports Cavalcade on TNN that was the way to do a short track TV show. I know that I am just gripping but I really do not see an answer to the problem.

Ray

As Dave Despain use to say on Thursday Night Thunder, "they got big hearts and whole lotta horsepower" , agree Ray when ESPN use to do TNT and Nascar as well as CBS they all did it right with Ken Squier and Bob Jenkins and Co. and again going back to that thing called MONEY, it all changed when it came into play and Fox and others got into it and agree with Gary London , kind of butchered it all up.

When TNN did those Desert Races in the Winter in the late 80's/early 90's with the WoO they were great broadcasts and it was purely about the racing.

Agree not sure if there is a answer to the problem.

J.D.

All i know about Dirt Track Racing is this,,,The best Race i ever seen was somehere in Missouri,,or Oklahoma,or Kansas ,but it might have been in Iowa or Texas or maybe Nebraska,but it could have been in Arkansas,,one thing is for sure the best Race i ever seen had alot of guys from these states in it...And i am pretty sure one of the guys from one of these States won that Race.....And i dont think i will ever see a Race as good ever again unless it has guys from these States in it....

I think we had the best Racing ,,,,,that racing could give ya..

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

Well said redbandana.

J.D.

Several weeks ago it was announced the the Tulsa drag-strip was shutting down for good, well now I found out it is going to be levelled and mad into a gravel pit. It is located near several rock quarries so I guess since the drag strip is close to the highway it will be used for a distribution area.

last year I had a chance to take Hot Rod magazine, it was cheap so i did it,$20 for a 3 year subscription and a free t-shirt. My son too the shirt but I enjoy reading about anything that is fast and loud. Hot Rod had their power tour this summer and it went to Topeka, Great Bend , Amarillo and Tulsa. they said that Tulsa drag strip had the best surface to race on. Two weeks after they were it was announced that it would close.

Ray

Is that the Drag Strip that has the big National Drag Race every year......I know people that drive from Joplin every year to see that..That is a big lose to Drag Race fans east of Tulsa and the Tulsa area...I read somewhere that they said the atendance was down by half from the year before...I guess these younger people dont like what we all did when we were growing up....Or maybe they are to to broke and money less to afford to go....What a change one years can make...

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

A mini sprint track in Ft. Cobb, Okla. just up north of Lawton, Okla. just met the same similar fate recently as the Tulsa Drag Strip as it has shut down as a Proffesional Baseball player from the Los Angeles Angels bought the place/land from Clarence Dutton and Terry Courtney both ran 6 Cyl. and V8's down at Lawton and OKC in the 70's/mid 80's and both had lot's of success racing , anyway they built this mini sprint track and ran it for a pretty good while now and not sure if they ran it continuously themselves but it was an operating track and like the drag strip sold it because of money offered for it and they explained it was due to cost/expenses of running a race track in today's economy and how tough it was to make a profit and really can't blame them as I bet they got in the 7 figures for the deal and plus said they are getting older and tired of the promoters grind of running a race track, the money they got offered for where the place is located was probably well worth it to them, don't think the ball player was upset with the track , he just wanted to buy the land because he is from Ft. Cobb and went to school there and it was by his parents place and so no more Ft. Cobb Speedway , be interesting to see if anyone buys the grandstands, bldgs. lights, etc. from either place and tries to start up a track somewhere else,I have been by the Tulsa Drag Strip when we went up to South Coff. to race and the place has really nice lighting for sure, never was at Ft. Cobb but be a shame to see all that surface property just be demolished.

J.D.

J.D.