Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

There is two major issues being mostly, although not entirely ignored here. Sponsors and the overall costs associated with the live broadcast. Now, while it's the unpopular belief around here, the Knoxville Nationals, the premiere event for sprint car racing needs to be live. Like it or not.

It does need to come with some restrictions, but first look at the sponsors that are currently involved. Unless KKR or TSR is on the side of the sprint car, there are very few major sponsors involved with sprint cars. Most of today's sponsors want to hear about TV ratings, website analytics, facebook likes and twitter followers. A sponsor wants "reach," they know attendance numbers is a reflection of various things, so they want to create a brand loyalty through a driver.

When driver X is on TV, they want to see how you clicked your mouse and made purchasing decisions. They want to know did you follow "sponsor Z" on twitter during the race to get race updates? If you did how can they market their product too.

If you think little things like internet and social media do not impact sponsorship dollars think again. People complained about the amount of cars at this years 410 nationals, in this economy if these drivers and teams are not able to be able to widely market themselves to a diverse audience these numbers will continue to dwindle. It's going to take a combined effort of WoO and Knoxville to come up with a feasible solution and rectify the television situation.

Part two of the issue is the attendance versus cost to telecast. The first thing that needs to go away for the nationals is Dirtvision, KNIA and Turn 2. Prelim shows need to run on a strict 1 hour tape delay set for Pay Per View broadcast at 11:00 p.m., the night of the show and subject to blackout rules. ($19.99 per night or $49.99 for all three) This takes care of three issues; television downtime, multiple fan and city concerns for running shows too long, and attendance concerns.

A prompt and swiftly run program that allows races to end at a decent hour, allows television editing and forces fans to come it they are within a 300 mile radius alleviates many issues. It's not the best solution, but it gives a better chance for many to see the races that can't.

As for Saturday, sorry folks, blackout rules still apply, but it needs to be live. Maybe something can be worked out to get it on Fox sports regional networks or FX, (the reason for FOX or FX is they are the parent company of SPEED for those who don't know) so it carries more of an impact and the television time can be paid for in sales departments of the network instead of being floated by WoO, Knoxville or SPEED.

It needs to be blocked out for a five or six hour broadcast that way the show can run naturally and not offend the paying customer crowd.

All in all, I know this was long, but they are just suggestions. I really disagree with fans being called lazy or other various things for not coming to an event. Especially one that overall runs for four days, but is part of an eight to nine day stretch of racing.

Living in Norman, Oklahoma I know many people who are huge contributors and/or fans of the football program that do not attend games or travel. Often it is a variety of issues ranging from the weather, seats, age, children, illnesses and disability, snarky or rude fans and those who party far too long, cheaper entertainment options and a truly big one; gas prices.

I liked how one post said he did it on $400 dollars. Add in a spouse and average two kids, that number could easily become $2000. (Tickets, gas, lodging, food, memorabilia and more.) And that's just bare bones expenses. Yes, it can be done cheaper I know, but I came up with that number based off four tickets sets, four hotel nights, gas from Oklahoma, food and drink for each family member at $25 per day at five days and each person getting 1 T-shirt at an average $22.

Again, sorry for the long post. It's just my two cents, because I would pay PPV prices just to watch at home and quite frankly if poker, swamp buggies, off-road racing and other similar events can be live on TV, so can sprint car racing's "premiere" event.

There seems to be a misconception among some of you. Turn2 is a live internet feed that has NOTHING to do with the evening's race schedule. It's quite simple. One camera follows all the action and the track announcers are used in the feed. There is absolutely nothing instrusive about what they do on their feed. They keep it simple and that's why costs are low. If the track announcers mention a sponsor over the PA, that goes out over the broadcast. What you see and hear at the track is what you get on the feed.

Some of you got it right. SPEED isn't about the fans. It's about sponsors. If a car has a broadcast sponsor on it, guess what car the cameras follow? SPEED broadcasts are terrible because they use too many cameras...I don't need to see an in-car camera or three cameras covering the action. SPEED does set the agenda on race night, taped edited or not. Look at how much time was lost between the A and B mains. Who needs those crappy driver introductions? Who's fault is that? They have "storylines" built around who's paying for the broadcast or dumbed down interviews and segments that really sound stupid to even the casual fan.

Do you sometimes miss action the camera misses on the track when you watch Turn2? Yes but even a person live at the track misses certain things if they are looking at another part of the track.

Knoxville pays an exhorbinate purse. I know Goodyear, ect. help with that and this year, the World of Outlaws paid for SPEED coverage as part of it's sanction contract with the track. I'd be in favor of lowering the purse, dropping SPEED coverage, taking control of the race back from sponsors who demand SPEED coverage, and embracing the Turn2 feed in it's marketing of the race. I think people will buy the feed at something like $30.00 on the final night, a percentage of which goes to the track.

Maybe the Knoxville Nationals has become too big for it's own good. They won't sell 25,000 tickets again to fill the place so they better look for alternatives to reach out to new revenue sources.

Again, I have nothing to do with Turn2 other than enjoying their feed of the races from my home. If, for some reason, the track were to stop that or severely curtail it, I'd find something else to do and somewhere else spend my money. It won't be at the track.

"I'd be in favor of lowering the purse"

...Says the guy that doesn't even like going to the track. I wonder how the drivers would feel about lowering the purse?

If it meant regaining control over the event, then yes, I'd be in favor of lowering the purse. Nobody else pays more then 50k to win, I believe. Why not go to 100k to win and maybe 600k total? Still the biggest race by far. If that were the alternative to live SPEED coverage, I don't see anything wrong with that.

You know, the Knoxville Nationals haven't always been about the biggest purse. It was about the challenge and the prestige of winning the event. How many of these guys win and say the trophy and title mean more than the money?

How many racers wouldn't come if the purse was cut and evened out some from top to bottom?

And oh by the way, if you embraced the Turn2 concept, you really wouldn't hurt the crowd much, if any. If it did, then you have a problem in how you deal with the fans attending your event. If people want to stay home and watch it, maybe there are reasons. To not look into that does nothing but alianate a segment of your fan base, many who have been loyal to the track for years.

Follow me on the social medias! ; twitter - 
larryitis   Facebook - Michael Collins 

"Again, I have nothing to do with Turn2". Do you have any beachfront property in Arizona also?? How about the rights to the Brooklyn Bridge??

Signed up 4 days after the Nationals, done nothing but pimp Turn2, say you don't even GO to the races but you live really close.

Yeah, makes perfect sense to me.

T2 Digital Inc.
The Cushion (thecushion.com)
http://twitter.com/WatchTheCushion
http://facebook.com/WatchTheCushion
“Official Internet Broadcast Partner of Knoxville Raceway”

I have heard of people being diehard fans of a driver.....but I don't think I have ever heard of a diehard for an internet broadcast.

Why don>nt you call Knoxville and tell them you will raise the money to TV races live. You could keep 20% for your work and all will be well.

I'm glad somebody from Turn2 set the record straight. Far too many people on here like to attack someone with a different view.

I think Turn2 did a hell of a job. Too bad they aren't allowed to do the final night. If they aren't allowed to do the final night next year, I'll save the $40 I paid for Wed/Thu and find other things to do.

Nothing personal. Just a fact on where I'll spend my money.

I'm done.

if you finish last in your heat, last in c feature on wed/thurs., last in semi on friday and last of last feature on sat it stills pays over $800 thats not bad tow money I think, and hopefully you make 10 fans and sell $200 worth of shirts

I couldn't find a complete payout but 800 bucks is not what I would call good. I am just a fan and that wouldn't cover the money I shell out. If that is the case no wonder car counts are dropping.

I would like to have paid to see the WHOLE thing since I live out of state and couldn't make it. But, not including Saturday night was a deal breaker for me. I understand that, because they sold the Sat. show to SPEED, it wasn't possible. But, on a different note, I won't watch the tape delayed stuff either, if I know who won already. As long as SPEED offers more money to televise a race thats already been run, we probably won't get to see it live on PPV/Internet.

Sean,

Tucson.

!!SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL TRACKS!!
!!Get Well Shane!! 

Like any sporting event TV does not do the sport justice, to be there live is the only way to go, that's the problem with this country to many people want something for nothing.

So.....we're blaming Knoxville for the World of Outlaws TV deal??

Just an FYI for everyone bit*hing and moaning about Knoxville not being on TV live, the ONLY reason the World of Outlaws were brought back in to sanction the Nationals was for the TV portion. With the front gate suffering the last 5-6 years, it's no longer economically feasible for the Raceway to pay to have the Nationals broadcast live on TV.

From a cost standpoint, it just doesn't make any sense. $200,000 in production costs + buying the airtime to put it on TV (live costs double what tape delay does).

As far as those on here that say drop the purse $400,000 to pay for it, I'll say this. Let's say they do drop the purse $400,000, I'm guessing the first thing out of 99% of the Fans will be: "If you're cutting the purse, my ticket cost better go down otherwise you're just taking us fans for a ride."

The raceway is in a lose/lose situation as no live tv makes a SMALL % of fans unhappy, but they are very vocal. Doing Live TV, they make the paying customers unhappy as TV dictates the timeline.

As for those that are on here complaining about 5 hours to run 5 races, I'm wondering exactly which track you were at? I was @ Knoxville where the OFFICIAL SCHEDULE stated that the color guard and National Anthem would be @ 8:00 PM Saturday Night. I was home and in bed by 12:15 AM, so by my math, they ran those 5 races in under 4 hours.

For the record, I do think that it could have been run in less time, no reason to have more than the hot lap sessions between races for the early mains and no more than 10 minutes should have elapsed between the B and A main IMO (cars should have been lined up in the line-up chute or on the frontstretch and then do the driver introductions with 5 minutes following the last driver introduction to pushing the cars off). Again, that's just my opinion. Having said that, let's say there were no driver intro's and no time between races, you'd all be bit*hing about the fact that the races were over @ 9:30.

Just a thought, but if you were one of the transfers from the B Feature, wouldn't you want a little more than 10 minutes to prep your car for the A??? And those already in the Feature probably want to make last-minute adjustments after having seen the track changes in the B.

As for live TV, I'm one of those that feel that it would lessen the attendance even more; no matter HOW much Knoxville got from the deal (unless it was the same price as a regular ticket and even then it may cost them money since some folks will skip Wednesday through Friday also).

Someone has mentioned a lot of times about how it was "Back in the day" when you had to wait a week for results, but everyone has become so used to having everything NOW that some of them tend to cry like a 3 year-old when they don't get it.

If the track doesn't make money, it closes. Pretty simple, huh???

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Live TV/interenet feed/radio/twitter, ect. is NOT the reason for lesser attendance. If Knoxville official are worried about losing people during the nationals, they need to find out what they are doing wrong.

Go ahead and take all the electronic media away. Have tape-delay 2 hour replays on SPEED at 3am, silence KNIA, no more live results on the raceway homepage, no Turn2, take everybody's computer and cell phone away until after the final flag falls.

If attendance goes up, then I'm wrong. It makes a difference.

But what happens when the crowds continue to shrink and more people than now lose interest in this race and sprint car racing in general? If (more likely WHEN) that happens, then what say you?

The problem isn't instant media coverage. The problem is far deeper than that. The sooner people realize that, the sooner those issues can be addressed in an intelligent and comprehensive manner.

It's not only the causual fan staying away, it's obvious that many diehards aren't coming either. Whether by choice or maybe old age.

Or maybe the economy!! When you can listen for free at home, why spend your hard-earned dollars to attend?? You yourself have stated that you live close enough and don't attend. What's your reason??

Giving away your product for free doesn't make more people pay for it.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

First off, I didn't get anything for free. I paid $20 Wed/Thu to watch on Turn2, even though I could have actually gone to the track for free. I don't like dealing with the nonsense and all the people. So, I paid to get what I wanted. The only reason I went Saturday is because someone offered me a free ticket. If I hadn't watched the first two nights on Turn2, I wouldn't have been interested about going Saturday, even for free. Do I expect you undertand that? No. Do I care if you understand it? No.

Funny thing is...if I don't want to go to the track for free, how many people who used to go and pay for all four nights (like myself) have decided the value isn't what it used to be, for whatever reason?

Again, and I state this VERY SLOWLY...the problem is not the instant media. It is a trend of downward attendance, well before anyone thought the economy went bad.

Simply put, it's not the event it used to be and now it's time to pay the piper.