Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

That exact same thing happened to me from that exact same web site.....interesting.

www.ibracn.com
#PaulsToTheWall
GO SAMMY!

I have never heard of anybody removing a watermark from a low res image but if they want to go through all that trouble it's impossible to stop them. I see photos culled from my gallery on Facebook profiles all the time but they have my name and website on them and are low res so I don't mind if they do that. I always tell webmasters that they can use anything out of my photo gallery anytime without having to ask permission each time they do so. My name and website are on the photos so it's like advertising.

Another point about this discussion, I don't think there are any other Sprint Car webmasters anywhere near where I live. At least I have never heard of any and I don't recall meeting any. Up here most of the racing fans think four wide street stocks chugging around at 55mph are more exciting than the A Main of the Knoxville Nationals. On account of their stock car and modified mentality they consider me a thorn in their side for a completely different reason than some of these other Sprint Car people do. It's kind of ironic to have devoted a significant portion of my family resources to racing since 1997 and to go out of my way to support the sport and the only feedback I get is that I'm a big pain in the *ss. They don't like me in my home territory because I support Sprint Car racing and the hard core Sprint Car racing media and photographers think we're a pain in the *ss because I'm still enjoying a hobby I have had since some of them were still in grade school. On top of all that the wife thinks I'm gone too much and spend too much money on a sport she doesn't understand. No respect, I don't get no respect I tell ya'!

I think the bottom line here is that there are many charitable organizations and clubs that would love to have someone do their photos and websites. I get requests outside of racing and have to turn them down because I'm too busy. Fortunately there are still a few racing people who appreciate my contributions and that's what keeps me going. If that positive feedback and the cooperation ever ends, it ceases being fun or I can't afford to chase races anymore then I'll know that it's time to move on. From what I gather I think Hawker feels pretty much the same way about it so I don't have a problem with what he's doing. The reason I asked the original question was to open it up for discussion and to point out that it's hard for stand alone webmasters to attract writers and photographers without offering something in return for the additional time and effort.

Enough of this topic though. It's time to start getting ready to attend a racing banquet.

Stan Meissner

Brad and Brian, I am sure you are both bursting to reveal who the offender was! Well I am pretty sure that it was me...

Sprintcar Daily strives to be a newspaper in the traditional mold, that happens to be published online, using software designed specifically for newspapers.

To others it may not be of particular importance, but it is fundamental to our mission to be an authentic newspaper as opposed to a website. Whether people see it as such is another matter, but that is beyond my control.

As a matter of editorial policy, I won't publish photos with watermark identification (just as you won't find such photos in your local or national newspapers). The reason is purely to present a newspaper product that has a professional, authentic newspaper look and feel.

I have in the past removed watermarks from photos (inlcuding on one occasion yours), however I always give photo credit in the caption. If I omitted to do so in any instance, then I apologize profusely and assure you it was an oversight.

That all said, I have since realized that it is inappropriate to tinker with photographs supplied to me (although I still sometimes crop the size).

So, my apologies (again). I am taking a lot of interest in this thread because it has made me aware of the frustrations and issues experienced by photographers and it is certainly something that I'll be taking into account going forward.

www.sprintcardaily.com

All the publication (magazine; calendar and trade/news papers); web-sites I will provide pictures for have me listed on the inside of the magazines as a photographer or on their website (such as Hoseheads; IBRACN etc.) home page or linked to my site or calendars on the back cover with the rest of the photographers that provided pictures

Most have a standard size picture that they want (or they ask for a certain size) or they will ask for the green picture (untouched; crop or ps'ed) so they can make them fit in the spots they have need for

Someone once said "Since the age of the internet seems everyone wants to lay claim to the work of the photographers as if it were their own." This happens every year they even sell them as their own pictures (twice to me just last year)

US Copyright law is pretty clear on what can be done with copyrighted material just look what's happening with U-Tube now

My $.02

Brian 

"TURN AROUND; MATE !"

If you really got honest about Australian Speedway Media.It could be really funny

All I will say GET EM A MIRROR

Cause they love themselves

And they love their proteges talkin them up

And just for the record Johnny Gibson ,Bill W ,Mike and Steve Raymond,And Stu Mc Carthy are so far ahead of anyone else it aint funny

And Tony V from the Outlaws and the Guy it does Knoxville with Bill W

The Rest seem to think the sport Owes them something .It doesnt

SprintFan16 - Using the free advertising line; do you pay for tshirts from the drivers. Afterall it is free advertising for them right?

Hawker just asked a question for those who would like to contribute, not you HAVE to contribute.

Big time graphics and websites are too flashy. This race fan just wants to read any newsworthy information and newsworthy comments on a message board. My website is probably 1995ish but I don't care as I am like Hawker, I don't want to make a living at it. My site has been around since 1998 as a service to the racing community and with at least 1000 hits a day, guess it serves the purpose. Nothing fancy, just a place where I hope people searching for information can go to get it for not only in Oklahoma but surrounding states as well.

Press release reading is up to the reader. What you and I may not give a rats butt about somebody else does. I am not big into driver press releases as they are all politicaly correct. I do read Bill W work with Wayne because Wayne is a friend of mine and I want to keep up with the guy.

A OKC photog, who has been in this business since the 1970's, sends me his work to put on my photo gallery and all he asks for is to mention where the shots came from. Give credit where credit is due. There are those in the racing commnuity who do respect the work of photogs and will not download pictures for their personal use. Kind of like a gentlemans agreement in baseball where you don't steal at a certain score. Those who respect the sport and people who shoot in the sport will not use the pictures from a website for personal gain.

I also see where those who try make a living shooting and putting graphics on pictures are coming from as well. But if you have a booth set up at the venue your next shooting, you could probably sell your share there as well as still the average fan or race fan will see those pictures in person and are interested in buying.

All Hawker asked for was any contributions from people who were willing, not stating everybody had to do it or else.

Just my half a cent thought.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

In my mind it's ironic how anybody who hangs around the muddy infield of some dirt track standing in an inch of p*ss in a porta john could develop feelings of grandeur and self importance.

Stan Meissner

i read some of this thread, not all of it, but a lot of it and this is what i think.

i have been around a while and i have known photogs and writers over the years. most of them, the good ones anyway, are fans of the sport first. that is why they are at the track. if they didn't like racing, they would be shooting pics and writing about something else. with that in mind, most that i know do what they do for the love of it and to help with putting their local tracks and racers into the public eye. they have no problem supplying their work to outlets that will give their locals some recognition. to get credit and recognition for their work is a welcome side effect that they appreciate i am sure. to make money off of supplying a little PR is not what the objective of most is. they have their own ways of making money off their work if they so choose. by the way, they are promoting themselves by submitting work, and those who publish that work submitted are in turn helping to promote the artist. if you don't wish to help showcase your local tracks and racers that is up to you. if you are just another greedy bastard that thinks they deserve to make money off of their local racers for free, then i have no use for you. when you get free access to the tracks and the teams and can't even understand the concept of helping to spread recognition of your locals by submitting work to outlets that are offering exposer for free, then i have no respect for you. when you accept credentials from a track and are allowed free access, in my opinion and in the opionion of most that i know, you then are trading that access in return for supplying the track with your work as well as doing your part to promote that track. seems that everyone thinks they need to make money off of the racers these days instead of doing what they can to support and promote them.

and if you disagree, you are probably a hitler loving photo hogging racist! lol.

to indy and beyond!!

hi john! happy new year buddy. you know i respect you as a friend and a photog so so i don't have any problem messing with you on your statement about advertising. when you buy a shirt from someone you are buying a product. same as when someone buys a photo from you. if a side benefit is promotional exposer, then so be it. if someone goes around showing your pic are they not in some respect advertising for you? when you buy a pair of jeans with calvin cline on them are you not advertising for them? so should we not pay for the product? when calvin cline puts an add on tv do they not pay for it? so shouldn't you have to pay to put your pics on someone's site? lol. the trade off is you promote the track or team and in return you get a little PR for your self. lol. by the way, thanks for all you do for the sport and for the teams. nice messing with you. see you around.

to indy and beyond!!

Hawkers original post clearly says "if interested". If you are NOT interested in sending him your photo's to use for free then DON'T!! Why make a big stink over it. If you want paid for them send them to someone who pays. Seems pretty simple to me. Why all the insults & bashing over a simple request to for photos.

I will chime in on this I needed a Pic for a driver for talk2drivers.com I didnt have. So I checked all the sites I could find for the driver. When I found the pic I sent a request to use it before I took it. Yeah it took me a little longer to get approval but to me it was the right way to do it.I have had to do this with at least 10 different drivers.

All they wanted in return was a link on my site in return. We linked them twice.

Kyle

Hi im Kyle Hendershot
check out my website talk2drivers.com

I don't see anyone commenting on what it was like 20 years ago so I will chime in with that. None of the shitty little rags that I had to send my stuff to in order to get a credential back then paid squat. (OK - not all were shitty. I guess mainly I was thinking of Racing Wheels.) But NONE of them paid. We're talking cost of film, cost of prints, and cost of postage to get it there. Sprintcar paid briefly until Wayne Kindness bought it from the original publisher and even though it was only $5 a photo I will tell you it was pretty cool getting a check from SOMEBODY while it lasted. I don't know what it is like now but unless you were contributing to A. some publications B. the promoters and / or C. the associations don't even think about asking for a credential or attempt to sell your pictures (and even then there will still battles on this one). It may not have been fully reciprocal but it at least provided some way of separating the legitimate from the ones that should be on the grandstand side of the fence. Let's not forget the long hours many of us spent in the darkroom producing images that were used - gasp - for free. My point is: some of you guys are bitching about e-mailing a .jpg or two to give back and help promote the sport? Yer getting saltwater in my beer with your tears - stop it please. Be thankful for what you have and while I know I sound like "up hill both ways in the snow" seriously think about how much easier it is to produce decent work these days. The equipment costs money we all know that (the FM2's and Nikor lenses I bought weren't cheap at the time to me either) but seriously think about how fortunate some of you are to be recognized as "professionals" in this world now. To be recognized as such differentiates you from the schmuck whose rich grandma bought him a new digital Nikon and all the gear to become what you are - to do what you do. Then think about how small a price it is to perpetuate your reputation as a professional by getting your work out there in whatever quantity you deem appropriate. It's more than just good PR - it's giving back to the sport that gave you something to photograph in the first place.

Chris Lovett

Chris, I still have my FM-2 camera and all the lenses I used. They do work with my digital bodies, too. Crap, I even still have my enlarger but the trays and chemical jugs are long gone. You're right about the giving back, but it's no sin to want to receive something either.

A final, final, final word on this. I had owned a 35mm SLR for decades but didn't start shooting at races to supplement my column in a local racing paper until 1999. I was having a problem finding photographers who were willing to contribute the photos I needed to compliment my column so I dusted off the old film camera and said to h*ll with it, I'll do it myself. The infield is overrated, sure action photos are a big part of depicting the look and feel of racing but standing in the infield all night with a flash isn't all there is to documenting the racing experience.

By way of example.

peeking through a "secret" hole in the fence.

another sweet spot outside the track

top row of the grandstand with a 500mm

roaming the pits

a portrait shot

another speedway, another sweet spot

more work from way up yonder with the 500mm

you never know where the monster zoom is lurking

Stan Meissner

I take photos from Australian Speedway. All my photos from well known tracks are taken from the outside. I prefer the outside because of the following:

1. All Sponsors are on the Outside of the car towards to the crowd.

2. It shows the attitude of a race-car at full speed.

However i do enjoy the infield but it shows the speed of speedway

Unfortunately in recent weeks my photos have been removed due to the website i was displaying them on is closing.down.

I don't use a flash at all at night and i use a 70 to 300mm 4 to 5.6 Sigma Lens.

Sample one.

Mitchell Dumsney mid pack - Entering Turn 1

Tony Stewart in Hotlap coming out of turn 4

From the inside. - Entering Turn 1. I was stand on the exit of Turn 2. At 300mm.