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Topic: Whatever happened to?--- Part II Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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bushwacker
September 21, 2011 at 10:24:53 AM
Joined: 02/18/2006
Posts: 198
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Posted By: jdsprint71 on September 20 2011 at 09:37:38 AM

bushwacker I appreciate that , $10 is a start and I am on my way to landing a Chili Bowl ride , LOL, and heck a guy needs a tire deal for sure, tack on another $1,000 in tires if your gonna run up front and if your one of the LUCKY ones that just happens to make the A main on Sat. night finale, most of em bolt on new rubber all the way around the car for it, after all it is the Chili Bowl and I guess if you get that far , you spare no expense and a shot at winning it, so we up the tire bill to somewhere close to the $1500 range.

This race is kind of taking on what the pavement guys do and have done for a while now, like in Indy and Nascar guys, you bring a sponsor and or pay the owner to drive a car and hope you win it and also hope something comes out of it that will take you to another level.

It sure is a heck of a 5 days of racing in the middle of winter.

 

J.D.



it's been a long practice at indy for someone to show the money and get a ride, seems like some money has ruined part of racin, as big buck sponser's have provided the best equipment for a driver to win. kind of made hard for working folks to compete ..and the trickle effect has reached midget racin at the chili bowl. wouldn't it be great the go back to the good old day's when good people built racer's in thier garages and competed on a level playing field ??



jdsprint71
September 22, 2011 at 09:39:53 AM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
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bushwacker speaks wise , money has sure made it much more difficult to race, along with a mountain of rules that are in all dirt classes now from Mini Stocks up to 410 Sprints, sometimes those rules can cost you more than you will suppposidly save. Just my opininon on some of the rules.

 

J.D.



racee14
MyWebsite
September 22, 2011 at 01:54:04 PM
Joined: 09/08/2011
Posts: 148
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This message was edited on September 22, 2011 at 01:55:58 PM by racee14
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Posted By: Bkcr on September 20 2011 at 07:13:56 PM

That is what I meant to say, Grady and James were the only ones to complete50 laps, Eugen hair was 3rd with Frankie 4th doing 49 laps. cars did 49 laps. There was a conflict with the date and only 19 cars started the race.

Ray



 

Regardless of the car count;

That was a big win for Grady, and it added to his wins at the Enid Winternationals in 1969,

and the OKC NCRA Nationals in 1971. The race he always wanted to win was the Hutch Nationals,

but luck seemed to never be on his side. He would retire the next season immediately after finishing

5th at the Hutch Nationals. The car James raced in NCRA competition was his Dad's converted

dirt car that he had raced in USAC. After they were done racing supers, they converted it back to

a dirt car. I saw the sprint car and the dirt car at the Sprint Car Hall Of Fame a couple of years ago. It

brought back alot of memories. James had a very promising career cut short

when he died in that terrible wreck at Winchester at age 23.

 

Ray C




jdsprint71
September 23, 2011 at 10:27:59 AM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
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Wonder what they did to convert it to the Super Modified??

What was NCRA and Track rules on minimum wheel base back then??. Just curious.

 

J.D.



Bkcr
MyWebsite
September 23, 2011 at 11:54:47 AM
Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 599
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Posted By: jdsprint71 on September 23 2011 at 10:27:59 AM

Wonder what they did to convert it to the Super Modified??

What was NCRA and Track rules on minimum wheel base back then??. Just curious.

 

J.D.



I have the 1979 NCRA yearbook with the rules and the car had to have a 100" wheelbase with the engine setback maximum of 50%. The engine could be up to 312 cubic inches with a plus 2 cubic inch allowance for wear. Magnetos are ok. Aluminium heads are ok, no aluminium blocks. I am going to get an earlier yearbook out and see what rules are different. I am sure that the wheelbase was 100" from the beginning but some of the other rules might have changed over the seasons.

Ray



jdsprint71
September 23, 2011 at 03:29:59 PM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
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I thought at one time the rules stated a minimum of 90" wheelbase??




racee14
MyWebsite
September 23, 2011 at 05:14:15 PM
Joined: 09/08/2011
Posts: 148
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Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on September 23 2011 at 10:27:59 AM

Wonder what they did to convert it to the Super Modified??

What was NCRA and Track rules on minimum wheel base back then??. Just curious.

 

J.D.



 

 

You may or may not remember, but the first difference was they took off the big tail

that they used for those 100 lap dirt car races, and replaced it with a bob tail and a roof over the cage.

I believe they probably had to lengthen the car slighty to make the 100 inch rule for NCRA. As I

believe most of the dirt cars had a wheel base of around 94 inch's.

The engine would have had to be changed out most likely, because USAC ran fuel injection and

alcohol, and believe also ran a motor with a larger displacement

in 1974. The USAC cars were all started with a battery cart, and not a self starter like the NCRA cars. Of

Of course by early 1980's the NCRA car and the USAC car were almost virtually the same.

Ray C



Bkcr
MyWebsite
September 23, 2011 at 06:33:17 PM
Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 599
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Reply to:
Posted By: racee14 on September 23 2011 at 05:14:15 PM

 

 

You may or may not remember, but the first difference was they took off the big tail

that they used for those 100 lap dirt car races, and replaced it with a bob tail and a roof over the cage.

I believe they probably had to lengthen the car slighty to make the 100 inch rule for NCRA. As I

believe most of the dirt cars had a wheel base of around 94 inch's.

The engine would have had to be changed out most likely, because USAC ran fuel injection and

alcohol, and believe also ran a motor with a larger displacement

in 1974. The USAC cars were all started with a battery cart, and not a self starter like the NCRA cars. Of

Of course by early 1980's the NCRA car and the USAC car were almost virtually the same.

Ray C



The Tulsa rules for Supers were always for a 100" wheelbase, they might have been diffrent at other tracks. There was a weight limit at one time it was 2,000 lb then down to 1,850 then done away with, Tim Belk woould know about this and what the wheelbase was at other tracks

Ray



redbandana
September 23, 2011 at 08:36:05 PM
Joined: 01/21/2007
Posts: 337
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This message was edited on September 23, 2011 at 08:51:14 PM by redbandana

Oklahoma was its own thing when it came to Supermods at 100inch it started in 1968,,they were held to a 305 Cub inch.I think they started at 1900 pounds and was 1850 for Pri IMCA 50 laps events..That is what made it such a great class they made them rules and stood by them and made very little changes..It kept the class equal and made it very tuff to get a big advantage.Joplin Mo followed then with the same rules for a few years then Mods went out completly there in 1971,it went Late Models there...But i think all other tracks in OK and Southern Kansas followed Tulsa and Ok city area with the same rules.. I am not sure when Wicihta and Northern Texas went that way or what year...BUT THE WAY THAT CLASS WAS PUT TOGETHER WAS A GREAT THING FOR RACING IT KEPT PEOPLE EQUAL.or as close as you could...I know Edmonds built some 100 inch cars in California that were alot like there 86inch California Supermods and sold them to Ok and Kansas area people.,The Nance Builders in Wichita was onw of the best things to happen to the class.../...Tulsa went from heavy Coupes and Sedan modifieds to 100 inch Supermods in 1968.There were not to many Supermods lengthned to 100 inch from 86 inch that i know of that were 86 Supermods before there were a few.Most of them were built to 100 inch.

They were called by the tracks up north as Econo Mods because of wieght limits and 305 engine limits,,because up North around Topeka ,Belleville and KC ,these areas went from Open Supermods to Sprint Car type like Knoxville Iowa did. There were no limits and you could run whatever you could fit in the car and there was no Weight limits at most the tracks up North,Central Missouri was the same way as up North,,,i am not sure when Wichita made the change but i think they went with Tulsa 100 inch around the same time Tulsa i could be off a years or to. .When the tracks farther North went to Sprints from Open Supermods. They were 6 inch to 12 inches shorter than 100 inch and some maybe less.Some of the Supermods from the mid 60s got down to around 1500 pounds or less..It is amazing they didnt kill more drivers than they did.back then.Them cars were very fast,pretty light wieght and big motors...I seen what some of them cars were built with and wieght was everything.They built some cars with bed rails.I wont tell you what else.

Alot can be learned from what them 100 inch Supermods did and how succesfull that class was,it made for some of the best Racing,, paring great drivers together and keeping them somewhat equal...But that was back in the day where money could not buy you a super light crank and traction control like today...The IMCA class it turned into may have been one of the best classes ever put togeher.It brought the best the sport had to one place and made for some great racing.I dont think racing will ever be that good again..


Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.


bushwacker
September 23, 2011 at 09:38:52 PM
Joined: 02/18/2006
Posts: 198
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Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on September 23 2011 at 03:29:59 PM

I thought at one time the rules stated a minimum of 90" wheelbase??



super mods. champ cars 100 in wheel base as i remember !!!!!!!



redbandana
September 23, 2011 at 10:29:52 PM
Joined: 01/21/2007
Posts: 337
Reply
This message was edited on September 30, 2011 at 10:55:13 AM by redbandana
Reply to:
Posted By: bushwacker on September 23 2011 at 09:38:52 PM

super mods. champ cars 100 in wheel base as i remember !!!!!!!



It would be cool to find out who it was that came up with the first set of rules for the Tulsa Track in 1968.Or find out who all was involved.. What kept it to 305 on the engines etc etc...The choices they made for that class and where they got there ideas....Some great chioces were made that kept that class workable and competetive and safe and afordable....That class didnt price it selve out like the Open supers did up north...Up there they had to turn into Sprint Cars which was a good thing but many track quit or turned in to Late models...It is strange how some area went differntly then other...It would be cool to know who and why they made the choices they did..because a class like that today might work out...........


Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

racee14
MyWebsite
September 24, 2011 at 12:26:53 AM
Joined: 09/08/2011
Posts: 148
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: redbandana on September 23 2011 at 08:36:05 PM

Oklahoma was its own thing when it came to Supermods at 100inch it started in 1968,,they were held to a 305 Cub inch.I think they started at 1900 pounds and was 1850 for Pri IMCA 50 laps events..That is what made it such a great class they made them rules and stood by them and made very little changes..It kept the class equal and made it very tuff to get a big advantage.Joplin Mo followed then with the same rules for a few years then Mods went out completly there in 1971,it went Late Models there...But i think all other tracks in OK and Southern Kansas followed Tulsa and Ok city area with the same rules.. I am not sure when Wicihta and Northern Texas went that way or what year...BUT THE WAY THAT CLASS WAS PUT TOGETHER WAS A GREAT THING FOR RACING IT KEPT PEOPLE EQUAL.or as close as you could...I know Edmonds built some 100 inch cars in California that were alot like there 86inch California Supermods and sold them to Ok and Kansas area people.,The Nance Builders in Wichita was onw of the best things to happen to the class.../...Tulsa went from heavy Coupes and Sedan modifieds to 100 inch Supermods in 1968.There were not to many Supermods lengthned to 100 inch from 86 inch that i know of that were 86 Supermods before there were a few.Most of them were built to 100 inch.

They were called by the tracks up north as Econo Mods because of wieght limits and 305 engine limits,,because up North around Topeka ,Belleville and KC ,these areas went from Open Supermods to Sprint Car type like Knoxville Iowa did. There were no limits and you could run whatever you could fit in the car and there was no Weight limits at most the tracks up North,Central Missouri was the same way as up North,,,i am not sure when Wichita made the change but i think they went with Tulsa 100 inch around the same time Tulsa i could be off a years or to. .When the tracks farther North went to Sprints from Open Supermods. They were 6 inch to 12 inches shorter than 100 inch and some maybe less.Some of the Supermods from the mid 60s got down to around 1500 pounds or less..It is amazing they didnt kill more drivers than they did.back then.Them cars were very fast,pretty light wieght and big motors...I seen what some of them cars were built with and wieght was everything.They built some cars with bed rails.I wont tell you what else.

Alot can be learned from what them 100 inch Supermods did and how succesfull that class was,it made for some of the best Racing,, paring great drivers together and keeping them somewhat equal...But that was back in the day where money could not buy you a super light crank and traction control like today...The IMCA class it turned into may have been one of the best classes ever put togeher.It brought the best the sport had to one place and made for some great racing.I dont think racing will ever be that good again..



 

 

Great Post Redbandana,

I think everyone that hailed from our part of the United States really enjoyed, and

wish our 100 inch Supers still raced. I think thats why Warren's site is so special. I have never

been on another site that brings the golden age of the supers that raced in our region

to life the way Racing From the Past does. And besides the cars, think of how great the drivers

were. I would match them up with the Super, Sprint, and Midget, drivers from any other region.

Harold Leep, Jack Belk, Emmett Hahn, Grady Wade, Dale Reed, Jay Woodside, Ray Crawford,

Buddy Cagle, Shady McWhorter, Jerry Everhart, Bobby Walker, Aaron Madden, Terry Doss,

Eugene Hair, Bob Cody Randy Willingham, Jerry Stone, Mike Peters, James McElreath,

Ron Fowler, Terry Euhling, Dave Frusher, Herb Copeland, Jim Harkness, AJ Little,

Forest Coleman, Roy Bryant, Frankie Lies, Benny Taylor, Derrill Brazil, Walt McWhorter,

Jackie Howerton, Fred Hembre, Rick Salem, Larry Dewell, Dale Looper, Shane Carson,

Ted Bacon, and many others. Outstanding, and then the cars, and builders you memtioned.

OUTSTANDING

Ray C

 




jdsprint71
September 26, 2011 at 02:37:40 PM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
Reply

The last several years OKC ran 100" cars , I wondered when they decided to switch over to Sprint Car Chassis how it would effect some things like with 100" cars it was 50" or 50% set back and nothing else, with Sprint Cars you can have 39-41" set back which some say work better than others but drivers perference from what I have seen over the years.

Agree with redbandana with I having run both 100" and 86" chassis, I think back then 100" deal was a great thing and good for racing, again times have changed and other things as well and to me on this subject , not sure if it is for the best in my opinion.

J.D.



brian26
September 27, 2011 at 05:48:55 AM
Joined: 12/03/2006
Posts: 7918
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Mar Car collection

 

Shane winning a feature at Tulsa, with one hand holding the top on as best he could, with manual steering.




jdsprint71
September 29, 2011 at 11:44:57 AM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
Reply

Was watching the Harold Leep Bio (thanks to Bkcr for the copy) and he talks about Ce-Jay Speedway, back in the 50's and a bit before my time and was up in Ks. , curious where it was located??, Was it close to Wichita,Ks.??, said they ran on Sunday nights and could have 100 32 and 34 Coupe's racing at the place.




redbandana
September 29, 2011 at 03:40:38 PM
Joined: 01/21/2007
Posts: 337
Reply
This message was edited on September 29, 2011 at 03:43:01 PM by redbandana
Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on September 29 2011 at 11:44:57 AM

Was watching the Harold Leep Bio (thanks to Bkcr for the copy) and he talks about Ce-Jay Speedway, back in the 50's and a bit before my time and was up in Ks. , curious where it was located??, Was it close to Wichita,Ks.??, said they ran on Sunday nights and could have 100 32 and 34 Coupe's racing at the place.



That is cool when Harold talks about the tracks they ran at ..I was looking at a A Feature Starting line up card for Joplin Mo back in about 1963,,Harold Leep ran at Joplin from time to time in his travels.They ran coupes and Sedans.What was cool about it was also the names that were in the lineup..Harold Leep.Jack Belk ,,Chick Shaddox,,Bud Hatch,,these guys ran at Tulsa some also,, but also Larry Phillips the King of Dirt Late Models Super Star from 1970 0n ,and Dean Roper 3 times USAC Late Model Champ in 71-72- 73..Also Willie Crane,Fred Tullis..Dale McDaniels.This was a normal weekly race at Joplin.

Also i was looking at a A Main lineup card for Kansas City Kansas at Lake Side Speedway,,this was a regular night in 1963,,,the list was amazing,,,Greg Weld, Kenny Weld,Jerry Weld, Jack Belk,,Ray Lee Goodwin Jay Woodside,Dick Sutcliff,,Gordon Wooley,Thad Dosher,Bob Wiiliams ,Ken Williams,Don Elliott.

What i am getting at with these line ups is People wonder how some of these guys got so good as Race Car Drivers ,,It was from who they learned from and learned to run with...The guys that run and won alot in the 70s learned from the guys they ran with in the 50s and 60s..There aint no better way to learn to be fast.


Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

jdsprint71
September 29, 2011 at 04:47:36 PM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
Reply

Notice alot of brothers in your list, I guess they are brothers?? , I know the Welds were.



welder
September 29, 2011 at 05:06:33 PM
Joined: 11/29/2006
Posts: 595
Reply
This message was edited on September 29, 2011 at 05:08:00 PM by welder
Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on September 29 2011 at 11:44:57 AM

Was watching the Harold Leep Bio (thanks to Bkcr for the copy) and he talks about Ce-Jay Speedway, back in the 50's and a bit before my time and was up in Ks. , curious where it was located??, Was it close to Wichita,Ks.??, said they ran on Sunday nights and could have 100 32 and 34 Coupe's racing at the place.



Ce-Jay Stadium was located in the SE Part of Wichita just East of Oliver & 31st Street South just North of Boeing. The old concrete wall can still be seen, there are some Ball Fields there now.




jdsprint71
September 30, 2011 at 09:30:44 AM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
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welder, thanks for the reply.

 



Bkcr
MyWebsite
September 30, 2011 at 09:53:24 AM
Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 599
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I was having lunch with a friend yesterday and like all old men we started talking about the races and and the scariest thing that we ever saw at the races and we both agreed that it was a modified wreck in 1968 Billy James was driving a coupe with an open top and started flipping down the straight. His belt came loose but the shoulder harness stayed tight and that probably saved his life. You could see his legs out of the top of the car as it flipped. He was in the hospital a while but was able to go back to work and recently retired from a steel co. He never drove a race car again but his son did.

Tim do you remember this?

Ray





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