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Topic: Silly Season is just about over Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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Murphy
January 10, 2022 at 03:28:18 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 2336
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Posted By: NoDoors on January 10 2022 at 08:20:56 AM

I think you misunderstood my thoughts.  I understand the rules and why they are in place.  I don't agree with them and I don't see the reason for them except WRG wants MONEY.  So, the Drivers and teams are going to be punished so we can control where and when they race, if you don't follow the rules, you get punished.  And those rules have NOTHING to do with actual racing.

Look what is happening in the Northeast Center Steer BB Modified division SDS under WRG.  Another racing Club with no real restrictions on the drivers as to where and when they race, they can run a Superior SB to SDS or a BB in the same races and the purses are equal to and most time better than WRG's SDS. They are losing drivers to Deyo's STSS every year.  

A perfect example of this is Mike Mahaney.  He is a really good up and coming Modified Driver/Team and sometimes a Sprint Car driver, he became a so-called Platinum Member last season.  He heard of a better paying race and went there, only to be punished by WRG/SDS to the point where he was in contention of the championship and they screwed him out of it.  This season he told WRG/SDS to go pound salt and isn't joining.  He will race some races with them but isn't a true SDS driver anymore.  This is just one of many SDS Teams that have left because of their restrictions.

I can see this happening to the WOO and it is going to happen sooner rather than later.

WRG had better look at their GREED and change their GREEDY RULES before it is too late. 

Just WRG announcing a non-winged Sprint Car and Midget racing division. It is all about money and attempting to compete with USAC.  Do you really think WRG is doing this to attract better racing team?  No, they are doing this because USAC is making money and they want that money for themselves.  Not the racing teams and drivers, FOR WGR to line their pockets with more money.

 

 



I think you need to pay a little closer attention to the details. If this Mike Mahaney became a "so-called platinum member" as you say, it means he signed an agreement with WRG/SDS. In that agreement, they promised some things, he promised some things. He was "punished" (your terms) for not living up to his side of the agreement. You might not think that's fair, but it's not that uncommon for people to have to pay consequences for not living up to a contract they signed. He can't be too upset over it, or he wouldn't race with them at all.



joesgarage
January 10, 2022 at 03:38:31 PM
Joined: 02/24/2021
Posts: 12
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This message was edited on January 10, 2022 at 03:40:10 PM by joesgarage

WoO is a national touring series, always was. 

I'm not young, I remember the sprint cars in the 60's, many were home built junkers that people died in. When Ted started the "Outlaws" it was a blessing for most local crowds to see 10 or 15 touring stars in modern equipment whip up on their local sprint car field once a year. It made the local guys up their game or lose, I think the WoO was the best thing that could have happened at the time.

For the barren wastelands that do not have local tracks running 410's weekly due to population density and/or local racing preference, it's the only sprint car race the local crowd will see all year. Myself, I'm thrilled that more than a dozen teams will be unloading in these remote non-sprint car areas. Believe it or not, there are parts of the country that have no 410 sprint cars or tracks. In these localities, it's not all about Pa or Ohio or the midwest, it's about a special show for hungry fans willing to buy a ticket and maybe some merch.

I watched an awful WoO show at a County fairgrounds in Colorado a few years back, too small and narrow for real racing, the outlaws still put on a show before a small crowd. I'm reasonably sure that the pro drivers talked to each other before the main about the need to finish the night in one piece. Sadly, it was the only real sprint car race I saw all year. Better than nothing or another modified race.

Yeah, I stream a lot of races, I pay for it gladly.

I'm really OK that the series and promoters are making a profit, that means they'll be back and the racers will be too. Too many tracks are gone due to pinheads griping on social media about payoffs and shrinking fields, it is not 1989 anymore guys. The clock only moves in one direction, forward.

 



runnin30
January 13, 2022 at 09:42:56 AM
Joined: 11/12/2006
Posts: 74
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If I remember correctly this non compete rule was established by Ted not WRG.  Promoteres were booking races in areas that the WoO was going through on off days trying to get the teams to race without paying for an Outlaw race.  Obviously any business person can see an issue with this, hence the rule.  It's pretty simple, if you want the benefits of being a full time WoO team you can only run their races unless being told otherwise.  They are simply trying to protect their product.

As far as being greedy, well making money is what it's all about.  That means both the WoO and the teams.  You don't see very many teams dropping off so they must being doing ok.




Joe V
January 13, 2022 at 11:08:56 AM
Joined: 07/09/2019
Posts: 13
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Reply to:
Posted By: NoDoors on January 09 2022 at 04:28:41 PM

Nothing against the Drivers I have the utmost respect for anyone with the balls to strap themselves into an 1100 lb car thats pushing upwards to 1000HP.  That in and of itself  says all that needs to be said about the drivers.

 

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The WOO isnt anything like it was when it started.  It is all about the WRG making money anymore.  Yae the money at the WOO shows are good, but what percentage of that money is the WRG actually paying out and how much are they keeping?  

The rules that the WRG has put into place has all but taken the true Outlaw out of the WOO.  Why is that WRG makes their drivers ask permission to go to any race track they want to go to and race?  What gives the WRG the right to control anybody for that matter?  Who is it hurting if Donny Schatz or Logan Schuchart (SP) or any WOO driver to go race when the Outlaws aren't? And if another race is paying better than a WOO race is paying on the same night than why cant anyone of them go to that race without being penalized by WRG? Wouldn't that make competition for purses better and if the WOO wants to they could raise the stakes for that race on that night. Couldnt they?

Someone earlier in this thread said it perfectly, but didnt use it in this context and correct me if Im wrong but I believe the word he used was "CORPORATIZED"  (BTW Thats a great word).  Yes the WOO has been "Corporatized" and not in a good way.  To me and yes its my opinion the WOO has been ruined by the WRG and although YES they are the best Sprint Car Drivers in the World, they are having to answer to the Corporation and the Corporation says you will do it this way or else be punished.

 

Ask yourself this, How is that being an Outlaw??  Just some food for thought.



"The WOO isnt anything like it was when it started."

You're right, it's better.  More full time teams than ever, and more than 2-3 drivers have a chance to win on any given night.

"It is all about the WRG making money anymore.  Yae the money at the WOO shows are good, but what percentage of that money is the WRG actually paying out and how much are they keeping?"

How is this any different than Ted Johnson?  Ted like to make money.  It's always been about making money - for the series owner, the car owners, the drivers.  This is America, baby.  It's called capitalism.  I dont recall Ted showing anyone a P&L statement monthly lol.

"The rules that the WRG has put into place has all but taken the true Outlaw out of the WOO.  Why is that WRG makes their drivers ask permission to go to any race track they want to go to and race?  What gives the WRG the right to control anybody for that matter?  Who is it hurting if Donny Schatz or Logan Schuchart (SP) or any WOO driver to go race when the Outlaws aren't? And if another race is paying better than a WOO race is paying on the same night than why cant anyone of them go to that race without being penalized by WRG? Wouldn't that make competition for purses better and if the WOO wants to they could raise the stakes for that race on that night. Couldnt they?"

What is the World of Outlaws?  It's a group of race teams who are at the highest level in the sport.  So if you pay to see the World of Outlaws, you are paying to see that group of race teams.  So if there's no guarantee those teams will be there, you no longer have a series.  This isn't that difficult.  When your business and brand is built around a group of race teams, it is not in your best interest to allow those race teams to race wherever they want whenever they want to.  All that does is dilute your brand, and your show.  

"What gives WRG that right?"  Cold hard cash.  Point funds and tow money, preferred parking to sell your t-shirts.  Provisionals.  Live streaming.

"Who is it hurting to let teams go race wherever they want?"  All the other teams, and all the fans who paid to see a World of Outlaws show with the teams on tour.  So what a race pays better...pretty easy feat for a one-off when part of your Outlaw sanctioning fee goes to support tow money, points funds, officials, streaming infrastructure, etc.

If it's such a bad deal to be locked into the WoO and WRG, why do so many teams keep doing it?  No one is holding a gun to their heads.  They are more than welcome to be like Rico, Gio, or Larson and hit shows here and there and run a true "outlaw" schedule if they like.  Other teams apparently like the perks of tow money, shirt trailer parking, and points funds and streaming better.  

"Someone earlier in this thread said it perfectly, but didnt use it in this context and correct me if Im wrong but I believe the word he used was "CORPORATIZED"  (BTW Thats a great word).  Yes the WOO has been "Corporatized" and not in a good way.  To me and yes its my opinion the WOO has been ruined by the WRG and although YES they are the best Sprint Car Drivers in the World, they are having to answer to the Corporation and the Corporation says you will do it this way or else be punished."

If you think for one minute that prior to WRG ownership these rules weren't in place under Ted and it was just a free for all and everyone just chose to race at Ted's races because he was a swell guy or whatever....you are dreaming.  The business model and 'exclusivity' rules are pretty much unchanged since 1978, with the exception of the influx of dollars from live streaming the last few years.  They are no doubt a bit tighter on letting guys race outside the series now because the money is so much more than it was 20-30 years ago.  

I can recall two people who thought there was a better way to run a top level nationwide touring sprint car series.  The first was Fred Brownfield and National Sprint Tour.  After Fred's passing none other than Steve Kinser became part owner.  Never went anywhere.  The other was Harold Annett from TMC who backed the United Sprint Association, who managed to get the Steve and Sammy show to sign on because the thinking was "Steve and Sammy ARE the World of Outlaws".  Never went anywhere. 

I remember standing outside the press box at Lernerville during the USA rebellion as a teen with Ted Johnson and asked if he was nervous.  "No...see Harold, if his deal doesn't work out, he'll just go back to his trucking.  Me...I don't have any other options or fall back plans.  This is all I've got."



glhayden
January 13, 2022 at 12:02:43 PM
Joined: 12/07/2004
Posts: 761
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Joe V on January 13 2022 at 11:08:56 AM

"The WOO isnt anything like it was when it started."

You're right, it's better.  More full time teams than ever, and more than 2-3 drivers have a chance to win on any given night.

"It is all about the WRG making money anymore.  Yae the money at the WOO shows are good, but what percentage of that money is the WRG actually paying out and how much are they keeping?"

How is this any different than Ted Johnson?  Ted like to make money.  It's always been about making money - for the series owner, the car owners, the drivers.  This is America, baby.  It's called capitalism.  I dont recall Ted showing anyone a P&L statement monthly lol.

"The rules that the WRG has put into place has all but taken the true Outlaw out of the WOO.  Why is that WRG makes their drivers ask permission to go to any race track they want to go to and race?  What gives the WRG the right to control anybody for that matter?  Who is it hurting if Donny Schatz or Logan Schuchart (SP) or any WOO driver to go race when the Outlaws aren't? And if another race is paying better than a WOO race is paying on the same night than why cant anyone of them go to that race without being penalized by WRG? Wouldn't that make competition for purses better and if the WOO wants to they could raise the stakes for that race on that night. Couldnt they?"

What is the World of Outlaws?  It's a group of race teams who are at the highest level in the sport.  So if you pay to see the World of Outlaws, you are paying to see that group of race teams.  So if there's no guarantee those teams will be there, you no longer have a series.  This isn't that difficult.  When your business and brand is built around a group of race teams, it is not in your best interest to allow those race teams to race wherever they want whenever they want to.  All that does is dilute your brand, and your show.  

"What gives WRG that right?"  Cold hard cash.  Point funds and tow money, preferred parking to sell your t-shirts.  Provisionals.  Live streaming.

"Who is it hurting to let teams go race wherever they want?"  All the other teams, and all the fans who paid to see a World of Outlaws show with the teams on tour.  So what a race pays better...pretty easy feat for a one-off when part of your Outlaw sanctioning fee goes to support tow money, points funds, officials, streaming infrastructure, etc.

If it's such a bad deal to be locked into the WoO and WRG, why do so many teams keep doing it?  No one is holding a gun to their heads.  They are more than welcome to be like Rico, Gio, or Larson and hit shows here and there and run a true "outlaw" schedule if they like.  Other teams apparently like the perks of tow money, shirt trailer parking, and points funds and streaming better.  

"Someone earlier in this thread said it perfectly, but didnt use it in this context and correct me if Im wrong but I believe the word he used was "CORPORATIZED"  (BTW Thats a great word).  Yes the WOO has been "Corporatized" and not in a good way.  To me and yes its my opinion the WOO has been ruined by the WRG and although YES they are the best Sprint Car Drivers in the World, they are having to answer to the Corporation and the Corporation says you will do it this way or else be punished."

If you think for one minute that prior to WRG ownership these rules weren't in place under Ted and it was just a free for all and everyone just chose to race at Ted's races because he was a swell guy or whatever....you are dreaming.  The business model and 'exclusivity' rules are pretty much unchanged since 1978, with the exception of the influx of dollars from live streaming the last few years.  They are no doubt a bit tighter on letting guys race outside the series now because the money is so much more than it was 20-30 years ago.  

I can recall two people who thought there was a better way to run a top level nationwide touring sprint car series.  The first was Fred Brownfield and National Sprint Tour.  After Fred's passing none other than Steve Kinser became part owner.  Never went anywhere.  The other was Harold Annett from TMC who backed the United Sprint Association, who managed to get the Steve and Sammy show to sign on because the thinking was "Steve and Sammy ARE the World of Outlaws".  Never went anywhere. 

I remember standing outside the press box at Lernerville during the USA rebellion as a teen with Ted Johnson and asked if he was nervous.  "No...see Harold, if his deal doesn't work out, he'll just go back to his trucking.  Me...I don't have any other options or fall back plans.  This is all I've got."



Well thought out and factual. Thank you.



alum.427
January 13, 2022 at 04:35:56 PM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1217
Reply

The benefits of a platinum member are to great for guys not to become one. 1000.00 a show, pit passes, and other discounts if the team cares to use them. Not bad, it keeps some of those guys on the tour. 

Outlaw. Ted Johnson had exactly that,  outlaws that would show up at his races, but if another race pd a decent purse that same team was leaving to go do some cherry picking. Opperman, Allen, Lee James, Wolfgang, Saldana and the list goes on. If there was a good paying opportunity you bet those guys took advantage of it. 

Are there any true outlaws still out there  ?  Not a chance, corporate money and sponsorship keeps these guys on tour today.  The benefits are to good to pass up.




glhayden
January 18, 2022 at 06:56:27 PM
Joined: 12/07/2004
Posts: 761
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Reply to:
Posted By: staggerman on January 09 2022 at 05:49:15 PM

Have not heard anything about Wayne Johnson coming back on the Woo tour in 2022. I know his interviews at the end of last season indicated they would not be back on tour. Has anything been officially published?



He just announced today, on Twitter, that he will indeed be running a "true outlaw" schedule.



revjimk
January 18, 2022 at 08:38:31 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6823
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Reply to:
Posted By: alum.427 on January 13 2022 at 04:35:56 PM

The benefits of a platinum member are to great for guys not to become one. 1000.00 a show, pit passes, and other discounts if the team cares to use them. Not bad, it keeps some of those guys on the tour. 

Outlaw. Ted Johnson had exactly that,  outlaws that would show up at his races, but if another race pd a decent purse that same team was leaving to go do some cherry picking. Opperman, Allen, Lee James, Wolfgang, Saldana and the list goes on. If there was a good paying opportunity you bet those guys took advantage of it. 

Are there any true outlaws still out there  ?  Not a chance, corporate money and sponsorship keeps these guys on tour today.  The benefits are to good to pass up.



I would consider Kyle Larson to be a "true outlaw", despite corporate sponsors. He races everywhere, everything ( & wins!)



glhayden
January 18, 2022 at 10:04:07 PM
Joined: 12/07/2004
Posts: 761
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Posted By: revjimk on January 18 2022 at 08:38:31 PM

I would consider Kyle Larson to be a "true outlaw", despite corporate sponsors. He races everywhere, everything ( & wins!)



And screw the Platinum Membership with all of it's benefits. Winning $350k in just two races groundswats that argument.





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