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Topic: Someone has some explaining to do (Traction Control)...
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Page 1 of 1 of 11 replies
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January 03, 2011 at
12:21:11 AM
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01/03/2011
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I was browsing Hoseheads Classifieds when I came across this...
http://www.hoseheadsclassifieds.com/ClassifiedDetail~ClassifiedKey~41955.htm
Obviously the seller didn't want to admit who they were, so I clicked on "Show All Ads By This Seller" and was pretty surprised to see who they were selling things for. I'd like to give this team the benefit of the doubt but this looks pretty bad...
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January 03, 2011 at
02:59:38 AM
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This message was edited on
January 03, 2011 at
05:12:07 AM by Hannity
Reply to:
Posted By: Cheaterssuck on January 03 2011 at 12:21:11 AM
I was browsing Hoseheads Classifieds when I came across this...
http://www.hoseheadsclassifieds.com/ClassifiedDetail~ClassifiedKey~41955.htm
Obviously the seller didn't want to admit who they were, so I clicked on "Show All Ads By This Seller" and was pretty surprised to see who they were selling things for. I'd like to give this team the benefit of the doubt but this looks pretty bad...
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Cheaterssuck,
Nice first post! This thread smells like a "witch hunt".
With that said, I would like to set the record straight, before this topic gets completely blown out of proportion.
The "Show all ads by this seller" search, could be deceiving. Some of the older ads feature the name "Big Game". The old ads, along with the newer ads appear to be posted by Rich Toews.
Rich used to work for Big Game, where he managed Todd's race shop. He also used his personal Hoseheads account to advertise Big Game parts. Rich was released from Big Game during the latter part of 2009.
Rich has also been a huge supporter of his brother Mark's race team efforts (Mark races 360's throughout the Upper Midwest). The newer ads, including the one that features traction control, appear to be owned by Rich and Mark. They most likely include parts that were either used or owned by Mark's 360 team. The phone number also belongs to Mark Toews, not Big Game.
Both Rich and Mark are good guys and sincere competitors, but I believe they (not Big Game), own the traction control ad and the product.
Be careful how you "call" this one!
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January 03, 2011 at
10:49:36 AM
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09/29/2006
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Just a thought .... not all tracks have rules against traction control (for even sprint car classes, let alone the myriad of other classes that this might be legal in) or maybe it came with an ignition system that was never used or was a traded for system.
Also, at one time it wasn't illegal at most tracks so when was it acquired?
Selling or owning traction control doesn't mean it was ever used for or by the person selling it or anyone they have helped or been a mechanic for.
It would have been better just to put their name out there as it does seem suspicious that it was 'cloaked' .... but that proves nothing IMHO.
I wouldn't know Toews if he bit me on the ankle. I just think it might not be that big of deal.
R.A.
S.H.S.
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January 03, 2011 at
04:05:20 PM
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Ok everyone.....I mean cheaterssuck, settle down. Yes I am listing stuff for my brother Mark to help him move off some equipment, but this Davis unit is not his. If you know anything about Mark you'd know that he'd never lay out that kind of cash for something like that.
As one of many unemployed adults in this great country of ours, I've been actively looking to make any income I possibly can. Since I've had some experience moving used racing equipment via my past employment with the Big Game team, I decided to do a little more of this for customers who don't want to handle it themselves. This effort is in no way related to Big Game or any of it's teams or operations. Tod & staff/teams are respectable people and they don't deserve their name dragged through any of this pathetic mud. Who are you "cheaterssuck"? I'm not hiding....why are you?
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January 03, 2011 at
04:07:06 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: azteca on January 03 2011 at 10:49:36 AM
Just a thought .... not all tracks have rules against traction control (for even sprint car classes, let alone the myriad of other classes that this might be legal in) or maybe it came with an ignition system that was never used or was a traded for system.
Also, at one time it wasn't illegal at most tracks so when was it acquired?
Selling or owning traction control doesn't mean it was ever used for or by the person selling it or anyone they have helped or been a mechanic for.
It would have been better just to put their name out there as it does seem suspicious that it was 'cloaked' .... but that proves nothing IMHO.
I wouldn't know Toews if he bit me on the ankle. I just think it might not be that big of deal.
R.A.
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Completely related but slightly off topic:
I was at the promoter's workshop this year in Reno and the question was posed in a seminar as to why a transponder wasn't working for a certain specific car no matter where the transponder was located. He chuckled to himself and said to the person who posed the question, "You asked....." and went with this response (of course paraphrased since I don't have the actual quote):
the only thing that would make the transponder hit and miss is when the charging contact points arc across a bar (mounting problem). If that has been eliminated, the only other thing we have ever seen interfere with the transponder is traction control.
Good times!
Ron
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January 03, 2011 at
04:50:05 PM
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You all can call this a witch hunt all you want. The odds are quite good that I am going to end up competing against this device at some point this year and quite frankly it disgusts me. I don't care if Big Game is using it, and based on your explanation I believe that they are not. I don't know Mark Toews at all, I've raced against him a few times and I have no clue if he can financially afford it or not. If you say it wasn't him, so be it, I'll take your word for that too. I do care that you are trying to sell the product and that it's a product that has already been used.
It doesn't change that something is being sold to blatantly cheat and I think it's a sad commentary that not one other person on here has voiced displeasure at that fact but rather that someone has pointed it out and has chosen instead to go after the person who caught it.
RichardT, I don't care what circumstances you are in, if you love sprint car racing and have any sense of morals or ethics you wouldn't be selling this product. That is the bottom line. There is no justification or way around it. You are trying to profit off of cheating in sprint car racing, as far as I'm concerned you are just as bad as Davis themselves.
As far as my identity, why should I have to reveal it? I have done nothing wrong and nothing unethical. I have nothing to gain from revealing it. My identity should matter far less than the fact that you are trying to sell a device that will allow a driver or team to cheat in a sprint car race and profit off of it. Are you willing to reveal who's device it was, because if you're going to imply that I'm a coward for not revealing my identity surely whoever used it will identify themselves right?
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January 03, 2011 at
05:56:51 PM
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This message was edited on
January 03, 2011 at
05:57:51 PM by brettco
I think It's a safe bet that anyone who has paid $44,000 or more for a engine has owned and used a free- $8,000 traction control. At that price it would be the cheapest performance advantage on the car except for maybe brakes. If it can't be found it can't be stopped can it?
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January 03, 2011 at
06:28:40 PM
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I have sold wheels, tires, wings, shocks, motor parts, etc........ That were not legal. Some I designed and built. Some parts came form out of state included with buy outs from team's that were getting out of the sport. Different clubs, states, and divisions have rules that arent the same as WoO and others associations. These parts can be legal to use, or at least not on an illegal list.
We tried some of these items at practice to see what they accomplished. Some we learned from, some we could produce the same results without using the part. Over the years I have made some west coast clubs rewrite and amend their current rule books. By trying to improve or recreate something better than the guys parked on each side of me. Wheather its NASCAR, Sprint cars, go carts, or a pine wood derby. If you arent trying to find a way to go faster you will be passed by all.
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January 03, 2011 at
07:25:20 PM
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This probably isn't the best judgment I've ever used by wading into this mess but, I have to wonder, why is Davis Technologies a bad guy in this? There is nothing "illegal" or even wrong with them offering traction control products to racers. It may be illegal in some forms of racing or with some clubs/sanctions, but it isn't in others. That's like making Smith & Wesson a bad guy because some idiots use their products to engage in illegal activities.
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January 03, 2011 at
07:29:55 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Cheaterssuck on January 03 2011 at 04:50:05 PM
You all can call this a witch hunt all you want. The odds are quite good that I am going to end up competing against this device at some point this year and quite frankly it disgusts me. I don't care if Big Game is using it, and based on your explanation I believe that they are not. I don't know Mark Toews at all, I've raced against him a few times and I have no clue if he can financially afford it or not. If you say it wasn't him, so be it, I'll take your word for that too. I do care that you are trying to sell the product and that it's a product that has already been used.
It doesn't change that something is being sold to blatantly cheat and I think it's a sad commentary that not one other person on here has voiced displeasure at that fact but rather that someone has pointed it out and has chosen instead to go after the person who caught it.
RichardT, I don't care what circumstances you are in, if you love sprint car racing and have any sense of morals or ethics you wouldn't be selling this product. That is the bottom line. There is no justification or way around it. You are trying to profit off of cheating in sprint car racing, as far as I'm concerned you are just as bad as Davis themselves.
As far as my identity, why should I have to reveal it? I have done nothing wrong and nothing unethical. I have nothing to gain from revealing it. My identity should matter far less than the fact that you are trying to sell a device that will allow a driver or team to cheat in a sprint car race and profit off of it. Are you willing to reveal who's device it was, because if you're going to imply that I'm a coward for not revealing my identity surely whoever used it will identify themselves right?
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Cheaterssuck that has to be one of the worst posts ever. You obviously have never been unemployed. You obviously have never wondered when/if you would get the next job. You obviously have never wondered if you were going to have to ask your family to help pay the bills. I was laid off 12 years ago, and the experience still drives me today. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Next you make it sound that cheating is new to the sport. You make it sound that we are all a bunch of choir boys. I still believe there are three types of people when it comes to cheating. 1) the people who are currently cheating. 2) The people who have cheated so much in the past that they can no longer cheat because of all of the teching that happens to them. 3) the people that need to start.
For someone to run traction control is akin to someone dropping the atomic bomb. If they ever get caught, they will probalby never race again. If someone is willing to take that risk, they will find the device regardeless of whomever sells it to them.
Finally, it would seem that if I wanted to buy a traction control device that I would not buy it used off of the internet. The risks would simply be too high. Davis has a reason not to expose its customers, but a used parts dealer on the internet may not.
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January 03, 2011 at
10:38:59 PM
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another year and another racing off season Hosheads debacle. Here we go.......
David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com
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January 04, 2011 at
06:32:33 PM
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why would someone buy this,, I thought TC did no good and no one uses it anyway,,,LMAO
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