Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
Moderators: Racing From The Past

redbandana, Thunderbird Speedway in Muskogee is suppose to open this season with 2 guys fixing the place up for racing again, they have a OCRS Champ Sprint show scheduled in July , Hope they get the place going again, be the only Big 1/2 mile left in this part of the country. Looking foward to running it this year.

I am really surprised OKC lasted as long at it did since the first rumors of its demise back in the late 90's and now I am especially surprised that I know how little Lanny paid to rent the place for a season and how little revenue it did turn for the Fairboard.

I guess the Fairboard just went along with keeping it open until they seen that these Tax Elections (Hotel/Motel and MAPS3) would pass to help build newer buildings and parking lots and grand entrances.

WOW really glad to see the oll Thunderbird Speedway may have new life..I really like that track.Its funny after i posted my last comment and right before i read yours i got a notice to be on the friends list on Facebook of Thunderbird Speedway.Spread the word about it opening.

You might go on Facebook and check it out.. Maybe they can have enough Races there to help the fans in that area with more open wheel shows. I will go if i can Tim

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

http://www.muskogeephoenix.com/local/local_story_351213946.html

http://www.thunderbirdspeedwaymuskogee.com/

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

I have Thunderbird on my schedule to run , looking foward to it.

I will check out the facebook deal. Thanks

pokeyokie, Just got the Sprinter finished with an all Sheet Metal hood 3 piece like the ol Champ Dirt Cars of the 80's and have enclosed lots of spaces with panels that are open on a Sprinter these days, got er all hand lettered and really looks pretty sweet, did not realize how the hand lettered cars look as I have been running that vinyl for the past 6 or so years try and send you a pic via email when the weather gets better , going to try and come down to your neck of the woods and run some this season, maybe you can make it out and see how we do.

JD,

Can't wait to see the photo of the car for this year. There is nothing like having a race car lettered the way they used to do it. Harold Jr. was a great sign painter. Too bad computer vinyl art is the going thing now. Hope to see you guys down here this summer. How is your Dad?

Mike

i hope to see the Hog Wagon at a few OCRS races this season....you guys need to come to Caney. place hacnt changed in 40 years.....racey little joint.....send me pics of car. would love to see it...

[email protected]

"its useless to put on the brakes when you are upside 
down"   -Paul Newman

Mike, Allen Crawford did a really nice job with the hand lettering, really looks sharp and yep I miss Harold Leep Jr. , he lettered quite a few cars for me, Think about Harold Jr. often and was just a genuine good guy. Dad is doing well and hangin in there and thanks for asking about pops, I would assume your dad is doing well too?

Will email you a pic when I get some taken.

bsman63, The Hog Wagon is going to try and make some of the OCRS shows this season, not sure about Caney as Lil Joe has ASCS commitments with the 03 car but going to try and hit some like Humboldt, Ks. and Muskogee (the old joint) and of course Ada and Clinton , look foward to running with you all again this year and will send you some pics as well.

With the 3 pc. hood and all the sheet metal and hand lettering , via retro 80's style Champ Dirt Cars , all I need is grow me a Mullet before the season starts and the whole retro effect would be complete.

bsman63 , got a question to something that I have noticed that Tri State in Ft. Smith , Ark. is billing OCRS shows on dates that are not even on the OCRS schedule and races are already scheduled on those dates at other venues for OCRS, just wondering if you could clear up some of the confusion, Tri State says they have 3 OCRS dates on their schedule. I figured you could enlighten me on what is going on.

I have a question to ask you guys who have run back in the 60's through today with NCRA or your local tracks.

Did you all as racers have much say in how the track/class rules were made and how it was run or did you all just see the rules at tracks you ran at and followed them with what the promoter/boss had on paper .

I know NCRA had all the promoters get together from this region and form the series but did they make the rules or was there input from drivers/owners.

Recently read where a promoter of a racetrack now and he use to race as well was quoted as saying "if you let racers run the track/show then track/class will fail.

I was just curious what some of you all have to say on this subject. Thanks

I raced all during the 60's and ran the Topeka Fairgrounds 1/2 mile track during seasons 71, 72, 73 & 74. We had meetings in December to decide if any changes would be made. Most tracks in the KC area done the same. The only change I made was at the first race I had the track in 71. The sprint drivers asked at the driver's meeting if they could run wings. My answer was, " We will take a vote the following week and owners/drivers each have one vote. Whatever you vote next week, we will run all season". They voted for wings. It did not make any difference to me, so Let them decide. Luther

Luther , That is interesting , did you have motor rules as well as other rules already in place and how did you come up with the rules , was it through the meetings or somewhere else?

I am not a promoter, but in extensive conversations with several about putting on a vintage show-I found they are at the mercy of the "feeder system". The best and most abundant of what the market will bear. They usually start out as bigtime fans looking to create a show they envision, but change wins in the long run everytime.

Racers have input with what they either suggest or just plain show up with( and it depends on who it is that sets the precedent). IE- guy shows up with a chopped and sectioned coupe- he gets thrown out, and next week the promoters drinking/golfing/fishing/business,etc buddy shows up with one just like it. The precedent is set, and change has won again. It takes off from there.

I have heard about the first NCRA meeting, not so much the one we read about in the history books. The core issue was the rest of the country was going 86" wheelbase, non-starter, non-clutch. This region was short on those parts and the money to buy them, and clutches and starters helped keep the cars moving when a promoter was under time constraints. It was known that change would come, thus racers would have their input--so the basic idea was to ease the region into the next phase when that time came. Too much change too soon, usually from the top cars(or those at the front of the meeting crowd), would cut out the car count considerably on the lower end of the classes. Each and every car brought X number of fans to watch it run(the lower end cars were mostly rookies with an enthusiastic and PAYING group of friends). More people means more money, which makes it look like a bigger deal-and that could attract more to come in--momentum- Then you have to weigh that against the liabilities it all brings. Ideally, as the population grows, so does the track attendance grow. Hard to do when EVERYBODY wants to be an invisible promoting consultant. They all just want to "help you out".

Who and just what do you trust then?

Run it right, and they come back. Miss?...... well then you may be lucky to get a free cup of coffee to drown your sorrows in while the next promoter comes in to undo all the damage you did to this racing community.

With racers, MOST promoters find they will find true acceptance and respect AFTER they are retired beyond their prime, or pushing up daisies.

tough job.

I do not remember all the different promoters at the Tulsa Speedway after it moved to that piece of junk on highway 75. the one that moved it from the fairgrounds,there was a tire salesman, one of the McCuthen brothers and several that I don't remember. The promoters, drivers and owners all have to get along. In 1975 at OKC there was feud between the promoter, "Marcar" and the drivers/owners. I am sure it wa probably over money but it started the downfall at the OKC track The association ran the races a few years then went away.they even ran on Saturday night in 1979 the same night as Tulsa. Like i said they all have to get along.

i wonder what would have happened if the promoter had not been ran out of the Tulsa Fairgrounds?

Ray

JD, We did not have any engine rules while I raced. Some owners tried the 348 cu in but soon went back to the small blocks. The 350 cu in was as large as we had and a very few had 364 small blocks. There was no engine limits until after the 400 cu in became available and some started making them larger. One local owner did have some success with a straight 8 Buick. Most track promoters would have a meeting in Dec and invite anyone interested. Any changes were agreed to at that time. Some of the small county tracks had some restrictions on carburation. Luther

I was told by a person that should know what they are talking about, if a track is leased from a private land owner that the promoter can not afford to pay lease fees, salaries, track improvements, a good purse and expect to make money. That was one of the problems with the North Tulsa track and why several other tracks in this area keeps changing promoters. Does the Hall family own the land that 81 speedway in Wichita is on? If they do maybe this why they can keep running year after year.

Ray

I just wondered how things were done back then and you really had no rules , kind of like the WoO was back in 78 with a true "run what ya brung" deal.

Guess technology which made for more expensive parts and the rest that goes along with having to race today has made it more difficult for promoters/racers to be able to help each other out instead of having to make it a dictator type deal of rules for a track or a series and the promoter being the dictator , so he will have cars to run at his facility.

Appreciate the comments.

Bkcr, I do believe the Hall family does own the land that 81 runs on.

Lanny owns the land his 2 tracks sit on in Lawton and Dallas, George Welch owns the land that Okla. Sports Park sits on in Ada and Mark Brill owns the land that Brill Motor Speedway sits on in Meeker.

I really don't think any of the other promoters like Creek County , South Coffeyville , Lake Country , Enid, Clinton own the land they just lease it, which is exactly why these tracks have changed promoters a bunch of times in the past 10 to 20 years.

The Hall family have a lot of different classes at 81. Do they decide what to run,is there an association that sets the rules or how is it done? Could somebody At Wichita let us know?

Ray

pokeyokie and brain26 need your email addresses. Thanks