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Any thing to keep the races at the fair-grounds.

I was a Mike Peters fan, that was one of the great things there were so many good drivers to cheer for. I wonder how many championships that Jackie Howerton would have won if he had stayed here?

Ray

Imagine the NCRA battles if James MacElreath had stayed in the region!

We had more than enough though in talent to begin with, the NCRA cup was already full. Several huge stages to compete on and the people came. Car counts were good and at one point juuuussssttt enough common sense to give a level headed working man a reason to own a race car. This was a destination series just short of the national level. Tulsa was the largest. I wish I could have seen what you guys did, I did at least get to see the LAST race on the outdoor track.

I find it odd NCRA supers were once considered "economy supermodifieds" by a certain writer amongst the living.

The 1st NCRA race was here in Tulsa in May of 1971.There were about 5or 6 of us that went to the races every week and we couldn't wait for this special show that was supposed to have a lot of out of town teams coming. Bill Lewis out of OK City Had a super that he ran here with several different drivers. He hired an IMCA Sprint car driver for this special race, his name was Jay Woodside. Jay timed in fastest and started on the pole. I don't remember much about this race but Emmett Hahn got aroud Jay for the win . We were all excited that a local driver won over a hired shoe. Those were the days for the Tulsa races there would be 50-80 teams every Memorial Day weekend for the races.

Ray

PS Emmett is a nick name, does anybody know his real name?

Emmett Sugar Hahn,,,,

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

Didnt the NCRA Supers have a 305 limit on the Engine. I know they had it in the early 70s but did they keep it through the 70s. And didnt they have a 1800 lbs limit also.I wasnt sure if they changed that during the 70s or not.

The Supers up North around the Topeka and KC area,, i dont think they had any limits on Engine or lbs. And also up in Iowa they didnt have any limits ether. Up there the cars were lighter.And had bigger Engines.They called them Super Sprints. That was before the name Sprint Car stuck.

The limits they put on the NCRA had alot to do with the success of the class and how long it lasted. It was a great class and it made it very close competion wise.

Tulsa was very good at holding to there rules like when they ran the Coupes and Sedans from 62 to about 67 ,,,, keeping to there rules had alot to do with there success. .In the Early 60s in Tulsa in 60 and 61 they called them California Style Super Mods.And in 62 they put up good rules and stood by them and went to the Coupes and Sedans only.

I think that is why some writers used the statement Economy Supers,i remember seeing that name used also .In the 60s and 70s alot of changes took place. They were called Super Mods or Super Sprints. Up North,.

Up at Knoxville the first 4 or 5 Nationals has more Super Mod type bodys than Sprint car bodys.That was something to see . There were some cool and very different lookin Race cars at the first 2 or 3 Nationals.

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

Yes I think they had a 305 limit and went to a 360 I think in the early 80's.Weight limits were close to 1,800 pds until 1988. But the top teams either had a wealth of talent, money or both. With the oil money and the trickle down effect in the area, unlimited supers were possible but then that would have made the class much more 'elitist', and shortened the car counts a bit, which when they started getting more like sprint cars it seemed as if that is exactly what happened. The driver mindset went to looking for cheaper cars then.

Supers in the rest of country seemed destined openly to become sprint cars while the "100 cars stayed with the "jalopy meets silver crown" formula. Then the road to Indy was obviously closing and the WoO took steam and Open Wheel and a few good publicists made sprint car racing look like it was the next big time deal. In many ways this part of the country was 10 years behind, but then in many ways it was ahead with it's inventions and driving talent.

We had our own thing, but the appeal of big time sprint car racing changed that. Even though I want everyone to own a supermodified today, my common sense tells me that oversaturation has an effect on the entertainment value, which is connected to the output from the pay window. The oversaturation today is that there are sprint cars ALL over the country now. The dirt supermod is a dead class at the moment.

Wayne Cox got a $500 bill for sweeping a show in the early 70's at OkC, which today is $2,600 adjusted for inflation(or close). They are NOT paying that much today. The headcount in the stands does not support it, especially when there are now 4-6 classes to watch---- Super sprints at OkC pay $1,000 to win(just under $200 in 1970 dollars). My point here is Wayne Cox and many others got paid 2-2.5 times more for a sweep in the super class than today. Modified drivers got $250 for a sweep($1,300 in 2009 dollars). Knowing the money isn't there, promoters now have to "economize".

1970- 5-8,000 people might come to watch 2-3 classes compete

2009- 1-2,000 come to watch 4-6 classes compete.

The people will only pay so much, and the headcount is only going to bring in so much. And the ironic thing is a modern day used chassis roller has more bells and whistles, has stayed relatively cheap and tires have stayed relatively cheap although they are used up more often making them costly.

If engines had stayed relatively cheap, then tires could have lasted longer, especially with a harder compound and more cars could have been showing up. Economizing like this is idealistic, but the costs stay lower and the driver is back in control more making the entertainment value go up, putting more people in the stands. Being different certainly didn't hurt in the old days either.

'Economy' is really a matter of perspective. Whom does it favor?

I have been told I ramble too much. LOL

Does anybody remember when Junior Taft held of Hahn to win an "A" feature in 1975. That was the year Hahn set all the records at Tulsa. Junior just hugged the inside of the track. Hahn just could not get by.

Doug Johnson flipping and loosing the cage and getting hurt bad.

George Armstrong and Larry Ring getting together in turn 3 and Larry ending up in the pits.

And last but not least, the go cart jumper who came up short on the landing ramp. OUCH!

mcole

mlcole

GRC35, Thanks for the Louver info , will try to find out about getting some panels done this fall, just think it might be cool.

I thought the old Super CID was 312 and Brian your right on the pay , we get way less than what they got back in the day, heck an NCRA show paid more $$ and with contingency money it was way better than the pay of today.

One thing though , is SFS is getting around 3,000 to 4,000 avg. per week in fans, depending on weather and your right on the tires , going through them this season like no other, the tire pile has gotten bigger over this season.

I am interested to see what happens with this new class Brill is starting up for 2010 , sport mod motor in a sprint car chassis with NO wing.

I found a program in the garage with a picture of that car that Doug flipped. The role cage was completely torn off and the steering column was bent down. I don't know how he made it. I think that that car was owned by the Johnsons that Tim's father drove for, it was #88 and had a sponsor from Neosho MO on the side. Tim do you know anything about this Car?

I have my NCRA year book and the rules don't have any thing about a weight limit, some of the rules are: 305 cubic inches, no magnetos , fuel injectionn super chargers, or water injection allowed. A 4 barrel carb, some people used 2 two barrels, 100 inch wheelbase. I think that Tulsa had a weight limit until the NCRA came around, does anybody know about OK CITY rules the cars ran together so they must have been similar. At one time Tulsa had a rule that engine and body must be from the same manufacturer.

Ray

JPsprint71, If my memory serves me right Harold Harris did try the 410's for a year or two. The 2 bar car you are referring to was owned by Chuck Etzkorn, who was also the guy who owned Tony Armstrongs first car. As of last season Harold owned the car Tony's nephew Sherman Davis drove on the ASCS circuit. I have not seen Sherman this year so I dont know if he and Harold are still together.

As far as the CI rule for the NCRA I always thought they where inline with what Tulsa ran which was 312 CI, but it might had been 305 but I never heard of that until now.

MI Cole, Is this Monte Cole??? The guy who did the jump with the go cart was "Leaping" Larry. I understand he finally died trying that stupid stunt. Now I remember in like 78 when Larry Ring flipped down the back straight and went over the fence into that field between the track and Yale St.

The scariest wreck I ever saw at Tulsa was when Gary Tapp flipped into the pits at the new track out on Hwy 75. Man he hit the end of that guard rail and it lauched his car over that 16' high fence and into the pits. They found some parts all the way out by 86th street.

The older I get the faster I use to be

Brian,, what i dont like today is there are to many classes. Back at Tulsa in the late 60s and early 70s they had V8 and 6cyl.,, 2 classes. The talent was not spread so thin.It made great races with alot of good drivers in each class. Today there are Late Models ,A Mods, Sport Mods, Factory Stocks and Bomber all at the same track the same night 5 classes and some times 6 if they have the Legends there.. And the promoters are complaining that there are not enough cars in the classes.DA It aint like the good old days when you had 15 guys in each class that could win on any given night, There are twice as many people in the Pits as there are the grandstands.

My Dad swept Muskogge one night in 69 and passed Buddy cagle in the Zink 52 on the last lap to win the A main. They had a special if you swept you got 500 bucks.About 2 months ago i swept at Springfield in the Sport Mods and got 275 bucks. A got to thinking about that and i didint feel so good. But i am there for the fun not the money so i was alright with it.

When a guy has to go out a run good to make the A Main because there are a B and C main it kinda makes you get with the program and you become a better racer because of it. it. I just like rumming the classes that have the most cars. The Sport Mods seem to have that efect they are having 25 plus cars nightly at most tracks and the A Mods are getting as little as 10 at some tracks. Maybe things will take care of themselves and some classes will go away.It would be nice to see the all the talent in to classes instead of 5 or 6.

Lately i have just been running the special races trying to get the better cars counts and the event type feel back in it... It sure aint like it use to be. If you ran 6th or 7th back in Tulsa in the 60s and 70s you were respected by many. Its not that way today.Things sure have changed

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

I remember the wieght limit was i think 1850 weekly at Tulsa and 1800 on the Specials. My Dad won the 69 Muskoggee Nationals in # 37and they had a lead bar on the rear bumper at the weekly races.. They alway took it of for the 50 lapers. I remember standing at the scales after Dad won the Muskogge Race and he was real worryed about making the 1800 because the bar was not on the back bumper. I remember also at Hutchinson it was the same way.I didint know if they changed the rules later in the 70s or not.,

I think the way they controlled there classes back then was great ,they kept all the talent in the same classes running against one another.Them were some great races.Even the 6cyl were fun to watch. .I remeber the 6cyl would run the 50 lapers with the V8 and a few would make the A Main on the dry slick.

On that car from Neosho,it was owned by the Johnson the same people my Dad drove for. in 70 and 71,, my Dad was killed in a Sprint crash in Topeka in 1971 a car not owned by the Johnsons.....I believe the crash you are talking about was in 73 ,74 or 75 . I cant remember the Drivers name of the top of my head. But i was told about it. I really dont know much about that car. I was only 15 at the time and was not able to go to the Tulsa races in 72 to 75 but 10 or 15 times . I got in trouble after my Dad died because i took his car and loaded my Gokart up in it and off to the races i went with no Drivers License.at 15..I got my butt reamed fot that. But i had no way to get there so what the heck,i wanted to race.

If you want to know something about that car David Johnson there son is on here sometimes,and i talk to him alot i will ask him next time i see him. I know it had a Sprint Body on it ,with the same Dark Brown and white colors on it.

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

micole,

I remember the DJ flip, I thought he was dead, I know it really messed Doug up bad, in those days at that track some of the cars were really not made for that speed. As I've said before it was amazing how fast we went with those little 302's.

I diffentantly remember the LR flip as he landed right in that little pit stand and alot of old fat guys were faster then they thought getting off of it!! That car was Steve Scott's old #54 Walker car it was a single rail springer. If I remember right he flipped in to the pits in the same car just a couple weeks later in the same spot.

Benny's & Aaron's crashes were probably the scarest crashes that I say there, unfortunately there were to many more. Darrell's was plenty nasty also when he hit that Jeep!!!

I was very lucky there, the drivers that I raced with there personally never got hurt bad. When Benny got hurt I was working for Parson and going to school and not working at the shop. So even though I helped build that car at DP's the Old Man wouldn't let me work on it at the shop. I was heart broken when Benny crashed that car, DP and I had put in hours of hard work building that car, it was a work of art the craftsmanship that DP had put into that thing was 2nd to none!! I hated it for the Old Man he really thought alot of Benny and they were just really starting to roll having won the OKC title in '74 and had made some strong showings in NCRA, If Benny had not been hurt they would have went a long way in NCRA they had the new Parson and at this point still had the Jelly car, plus the Old Man had 4-5 complete engines so they would have been well equiped.

One time John McDade and the Old Man put a little tape recorder under the dash of the Jelly car at Tulsa on the little track. Man that Benny had 2 speeds stopped or on the Mat, they put it in to run a heat, you can hear the car on the pace laps, then the start and then it only breathed a bit in the turns for a couple laps then the motor just changed tunes and ran wide open only pulling down a little in the corners, we were turning those 302's at that time 7800/8000 RPM and those things just hummed at that RPM range!!!!! Oh Benny won that heat and never lifted the last 5 laps!!!!

In '74 Doug Johnson and Benny had a little rift during a race later on after the races there were words and Benny had broke his jaw a couple years earlier, I believe a starter had hit him also, so Pat and Doug got hooked up eventually Pat got on top of DJ and was thumping on him alittle when Dave Grubb jumped on the Old Man's back and started choking him, well Pat couldn't hit DJ anymore so he just put his thumbs in DJ's eyes and started gouging, he said DJ was a screaming like a hog but Pat said he was just about passed out when Johnny came by and cracked old Grubber across the collar bone with a weight jacking wrench then Pat said Grubb was a howling like a Coyote. They broke the fight up and went on there way and during the next week Pat got a call and said they had to go before the officals before they could race the next Saturday. They went over to Tulsa early and met the officals, Pat told me DJ, Grubb, Johnny & himself were present. When the officals asked what happened they gave them the oh I slipped story and it was nothing really!! Well as they left Pat said DJ pulled off those sunglass's and said Suchy look what you did to my eye at which time Pat responded Grubb you about broke my neck and Grubb replied to hell with your eye and to hell with your back I want to find that SOB who about broke my collar bone, Pat said there he is pointing at Johnny who Pat said had this lost look on his face!! They went on and raced and never had any more problems after that. Back in those days you settled it at the track and went home trying to figure how you were going to beat that SOB who just kicked your butt and more often then not both side always figured out a way to beat the other!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

When you say Benny are you talking about Benny Taylor,, I remember when he got hit in the car and got his Jaw broke. i was a fan of his,,, sure was disapointed when he could not run for a while. I remember they had some talk about some of the guys were not useing screens or anything in front of them to block rocks and such. My dad had his hands broken a few times and had his shoulder hit also,, i remember him talking about it when it happened to Benny he would never run without some kind of sceen or wire bars to block stuff.

My dad was winning the points in Topeka and with 4 weeks to go hit and got his hand broke by a rock in Joplin. He had to set out for 4 weeks and he lost the points to Don Elliot by 5 points,.After that he was pretty set on a good wire or screen to block stuff from getting in there with him.I think Luther remembers that happening.I do remember them saying that it was a part off a car that got Benny that night.. Sure did like that #1300 car he was driving.

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

It was 197 or 1975 (little fuzzy in the year) when Benny Taylor and Johnny Boe got together in turn 4. Benny really never got over that wreck. Johnny according to a lot of drivers was just dangerous. Don't want to offend any Boe fans, but I have talk to a lot of racers who said when they got around him they were extra carful.

It was about 2 weeks later when Larry Ring flipped out into the pits again. Tore the car up pretty bad the second time. I have about 200 programs from the 70's and several hard bound books from the 60's. Lots of good pics and stories from the programs and books.

And speaking of Dave Grubb. To me, one of the most exicting drivers to watch. Just sat on the edge of the aluminum bleachers at Tulsa waiting for the "Great" Dave Grubb to flip.

One of my favorite memories of the 1/2 mile "5/8" mile track was opening night in 1974 and walking up the ramp and looking at the biggest track that i had ever seen. I was 12 and was just overwhelmed by it. Same feeling I had when I walked into the Texas Motor Speedway in 1997. Man goose bumbs.

Me and my dad driving from Prue Ok, to Dewey Ok on a very wet night to see the NCRA show. It rained all day and green flag was suppose to be at 7. We drove it in about 45 minutes. He was passing cars on the right shoulder just so we would get there on time. Green flag was delayed until 8. So I got a coke and he had a beer and we sat back and enjoyed a great race. The pits was a quagmire. He took a huge mud clog in the knee.

As a kid growing up at the Tulsa Speedway, I was a fan of anybody how beat Emmett Hahn. Booed him everytime I saw him. (Now at NCRA races I have to admit, I did yell for him. Had to yell for the home town boys). Now that I am in my late 40's, I look back on Emmett and in 10 seasons driving the JZS, 5 Tulsa Championships, 2 NCRA Championships and 1 OKC Championship driving for Doc Garrett. He was the best driver of my era at Tulsa. Now you Leep fans my scrunch your eyebrows, but this is my opinion only. I was grown and in the Navy when Donny Crawford drove. I am talking about the Supermodifieds.

Hope you guys who read this don't get angry about the personel memories and thoughts. I work here at the 911 Center here in Tulsa with a couple of guys who also went out to the speedway. One was a Hahn fan. One was a George Armstrong fan and of course, I was a Ray Crawford fan. Its a big debate here who the best was. If Crawford drove the JZS would he had one as much as Hahn did? Questions like that.

mcole

mlcole

Jackie Howerton stoped running in the middle of the 71 year, he had the Tulsa points rapped up,,but went on to bigger things. If he would have stayed in Tulsa he would have changed the way things ended up over the next 3 to 5 years.. One thing Jackie had was the Zink backing and he could set up and build his own car. That would of kept his set up tricks in that garage and made him harder to beat.

I remember i think it was 70 or 71 at the Tulsa 50 laper Jackie went out to Qualifie and he had a great big right rear on the car,it stuck out 5 or 6 inches more than any other cars tires did...Even his left rear was big and very wide.He looked 2 foot wider than any other car.. He was able to run the bottom of the track. Every body else was running the top to keep momentum... I dont remember if he got fast time but he was in the top 5 for sure. Alot of the Drivers and people were camplaining that he was to wide and would be hard to pass. That was the first time i think that a Supermod had run a tire like the Sprint Cars run today. He put it right in the dry slick and made it stick. He went to smaller tires in the A main...In the stands you could here people saying look at them tires. It was something to see. You got to try new things and Jackie was just the guy to find out if it would work.

I remember times when the March racing tires came out that they had to much traction.That was about 68. They were having trouble with the smaller 305 engines not able to brake the tires loss. They had to lossin the cars up to get them to turn under power.

I think the biggest thing that is different today then back then is the tire softness.And also Horse power has gotten better also with the lighter engine parts.

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

redbandana,

Yes, that would be Benny Taylor!! Benny built some really fine cars himself with those Okie Sprinter Body's they were space frame spring fronts and cross torsion rears with swinging shackles. Larry Holman ran a couple of them and won some championships with them. I was really surprised when the old man had DP build him a car during the winter of '74/'75, I always thought Benny would build The Old Man a car. When Benny & Pat started out they ran that Jelly single rail springer with paraellel bars on the rear after Benny crashed it one time they had cross torsion put on the rear and during the winter of '73/'74 had DP put a T-Top body with ducktail tail piece on it which would become the old man's trade mark body style through '80. Those cars were sharp DP knew how to hang a body and was the best tin guy I've ever been around. We worked hard on building that car for the Old Man and it had some fine chrome and Gold Plating on it.

It was a shame that Benny got hurt he was and still is a great guy, they would have went a long way in racing if Benny hadn't been hurt, John McDade was working on the cars and Johnny is a pretty good all around chassis and set-up guy himself, so they had all the piece's in place to win alot of races and championships.

 

I sure am sorry i missed alot of the races in Tulsa after 71. That was a great program they had down there. I always liked Benny Wahoo Taylor... Glad to here he is still around...Benny was a good driver.Tell him Jack Belk son was a big fan of his. . My Dad liked Benny also . I heard they have some get togehter at one of the Casino every now and then. Maybe i can get the Johnson boys to come down to one of them and see some of the guys. Tim

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

David, Benny almost won the last race at the old track at the Tulsa fairgrounds in Pat's car. I was there and remember a lot of it but it sure helps to have My NCRA year book. The last race was a NCRA 50 lap feature on October 13, 1973. The track stayed heavy and fast and Benny timed in fastest at18.84. James Eubanks in Joe Cox's 33 was the only other drive under 19 seconds with an 18.98. Harold had retired in July and had already clinched the championship but there was a battle for second between Emmett, Frankie and DE. Jackie Howerton was there driving the Zink roadster. Benny lead the first 46 laps then slowed and James got around him, the yearbook said he was leaking transmission fluid and burnt his feet, he still managed to finish 2nd. James win in Joe's car was very popular, Joe had been around forever and had given Emmett his big break. Jackie finished 5th, Emmett lost his brakes and finished 13 one spot ahead of DE, Frankie won the B but a seat brace broke and he didn't finish the A, so Emmett finished 2nd in the standings. The Car that Benny was driving I always thought was a Nance car because of the body style. When did Jelly build it for Pat and is it the same car that Grady wade and George Armstrong drove for Pat?

Ray