Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
Moderators: Racing From The Past

Ray,...I do have an opinion ! All of the cars I built had a cross front spring front end, except the 4 bar I built from AJ Watson blue prints. I built 4 more cars after that with cross springs. It turned out the bars were not strong enough. I ended up cutting the front of the frame off & making a front axle & cross spring. The next race after that was the IMCA Fair in Tulsa in Oct 1967. Ray Lee Goodwin driving, we timed 3 rd behind Jerry Richart (in Wagner #63) & Jay Woodside (in Halls #9) and ran 3 rd that night in the same order as we qualified. We all 3 broke the USAC record of a year earlier.

Four bars are OK if you have the experience to install the correct bars. We all know Kinser and all of the car owners & drivers of today use them. During my time, the spring was more consistent in handling. Sammy Sessions won the USAC Sprint points in a cross spring front in (I think) 1976.

The best handling car I built was the T-Coupe car #5 in the winter of 65/66. (It is on page 57 of Bob May's High Plains Thunder at the end of 5 seasons) It had a Shillah front spring with the half leaf wrap on the right side. That was what USAC cars used. I called him on the phone & purchased the spring directly from him. He proceeded to tell me he helped Hank Henry build the 5 cars he built. He sent me a sketch on yellow legal size paper with a drawing of the front steering geometry. He said Henry's cars had 44 inch, king pin to king pin front axles & 48 inch rear open tubes. Also, use a straight line fron the center of the king pin to the center of the rear housing & the tie rod end (heim joint) should center on that line. That keeps the car from draging one front wheel through the turns. That is the measurements I used from then on. I'm sure you have all heard one front wheel scooting when you make a sharp turn in a parking lot at slow speed. That happens when the steering geometry is not correct.

See what happens when you ask me a question !!.........Luther

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180329342269

For someone who has the bug to build a car. Is an 86", non down tube roller. No reserve and price is right. Stretch out to 100", get a seat and motor and go racing. Looks to be lots of good parts. Steering and brake system are all intact. And, not that far away.

Luther...That steering is called Ackerman. Chevy used it in their advertising in the 40's, but there are still some vehicles that don't know about it, or don't use it. If the tie rod is behind the axle, the ends are inside the king pin. If the tie rod is in front of the axle, the ends are outside the kingpin, but always on that center of rear axle--king pin line.

Kind of Curious and never bought anything off of E bay, so when it says starting bid is $1500 , that is lowest bid you can post if you would like to bid on it or ?. Like I said not a big puter buyer of parts or anything and just trying to figure out something.

Rustyrail,....You know more about the steering than I did. I thought some west coast aircraft engineer figured it out ! ....Luther

Why you have to go and ask hard questions? I honestly don't remember. Since the axle is plated in the pic, I am pretty sure we didn't build a wider axle. We just moved the pick-up points.

Mr. Jones I find that hard to believe you are slippin, by the way got all 3 Fr. Bumpers you did and I got them drilled and all fit like they are from the Factory.

Bkcr,

Ray drove the car a couple of times, I know once at OKC, he might have drove it a Muskogee but I don't think it was early in the season maybe a later NCRA date. Ray beat us by 5 or 10 pts in '78 NCRA Championship, for some reason Jr didn't run all NCRA's in '79.

I got lukewarm reviews for bringing this up last fall, and even today when I come across someone wanting an old style super. BUT, if you take a tape measure and check the parameters of an '80s Stanton/Challenger/Stinger/Tognotti/ etc. frame, you'll find some interesting similarities. Why not? Sprint cars may have taught the supermodified crowd how to make supermods race cars, but in many many cases, supermods refined sprint cars to what they are today. Things only changed so much inside a given time.

Stanton style sprint frames started out as a supermodified design from what I can tell from Arizona. Thus I call that style the "Arizona" super.

JD, isn't this an old Stanton super?

From Arizona, The Twister.

These cars also handle Edmunds, Nance bodies well too.

Luther,

Did you ever weigh the T-Coupe or any of your single rail cars? I have used that tie-line system also and for other things on set-up's. It amaze's me how many cars have ackerman in them, we worked Hard on front steering geometry and set-up but I don't believe today these kids pay alot of attension to it, includeing the kid I help now he doesn't seem to be concerned about it, even though I believe he would be faster with it correct, they just want to buy the part and stick it on, your T-Coupe was famous I even knew about that car down here, you built the parts took the time to do them right and that is one of the reasons it was a Great Car.

Brian,

When you have time, I'm in no hurry could you email me pic's from the last get together?

This car above we didn't get the tail on right, it had twisting and flexing issues, we put bars across the engine compartment at a later date but it didn't help much.

See if this link works, if not I'll e-mail them to you.

http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/brian26_photos_2007/racers%20reunion/

Sellers have a couple of tools to use...1. They set the opening bid, but after that, the high bid wins. 2.They set the opening bid, but also have a minimum before they will sell it. In that case, the current bid will say "Reserve not met" under it. Sometimes they use a low opening bid to get things moving, other times the opening bid and the reserve are close together. Usually, the bidding doesn't get serious till close to the end. People will lay back, then make a last minute bid. But, the bid shown, may not be the highest. That is only the bid needed to pass the last bid. That is why it asks for your highest bid. It may show the bid at $20, but the bidder said he would go as high as $40. That way, if more bids come in, eBay will keep raising your bid till it reaches your limit. That is nice if you want to be in bed asleep, instead of watching an item. I would guess that people will lay back on this car till the end, then someone will make a last minute bid to try and get a bargain. If you parted this car out, the rearend and steering box are worth the opening bid. Am sure that people get taken on eBay, but there are bargins as well. I just bought a 15x14 Weld aluminum wheel with a 70% 2378 tire for $35. It is a nonbeadlock, which don't come up often in that size. Has a little scuffing on the outside lip of the rim, but runs true and bolt holes are not wallowed out. With digital cameras, good pictures areeasy. If the pictures are bad, usually the part is too.

Thanks to e-bay, most of the stuff I've bought in the last year and a 1/2 came from there. I've only lost 75 bucks, for a 35 gallon sprint tail that I didn't need anyway. It was stylish, that's all.

Luther,The Jelly car #99 that Harold had so much success with in the Mid '60s, was it a 4-bar space frame chassis? I rember Harold saying that it had more side bite than any car that he ever drove, was this car ahead of it's time and what ever happened to it ?

Ray

Yah, but for a bachelor, think what a neat piece it is to hang on the living room wall. Those sort of things really impress the ladies. LOL Love me, love my race car.

A couple of hints for eBay...check the rating of the seller. If 98-100, probably a good seller and then only need to check the pictures close, or ask the seller questions. The "good" sellers might even have a return policy, or will work with you if you are totally unhappy, so to keep their good rating.

Don't let the freight bug bite you. That $40 transmission isn't so cheap if it costs $100 to get to your door.

Luther

Ackerman has been around a long time. One of the few things that stuck with me from spending 5 years at Kansas State. That was in the day when a calculator was a Post VersaLog(look up slide rule) and you solved your problems on a drafting table, not a computer.