Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

How long is it going to be until a driver gets killed as a direct result of the current tether regulations?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yps9j9ibPU

I am not saying this because I hate tethers or I think they are too expensive but because I think the current system has a long way to go before it does the job intended to keep the fans, crews, officials, and drivers safe. I believe only part of that solution is currently solved. 

Can you elaborate? Are you saying that was unsafe for the driver because the front axel stayed attached, drag link, what exactly am I looking at? Did the axel come through the bottom of the cockpit?

the LF was whipping around in this video clip...

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I agree.  In no way do I have the answer, but I too think that the system we have now, while intentions are good, place the driver in a lot more danger.  It’s just a matter of time before a driver gets impaled by a broken front axle that is getting whipped around by the tethers as the car is flipping.  It almost happened in this example twice.  

It will be horrible when/if it does happen.  It may be a double edged sword as a driver could be seriously injured and then these tethers may be ruled unsafe for use going forward after all these teams have been mandated to buy them.

I would be happy to. 

In the video that I shared, axle broke in half in the impact with the wall, after the axle breaks and stays intact with the frame it starts swinging about potentially hitting the driver or other drivers. Also it looks like the wheel sheers off of the right  which defeats the purpose of the kingpin to kingpin tether. The axle did not come through the floor pan but it could pretty easily do so or come through the side panels, aluminum and fiberblass/ carbon fiber parts. 

There have been several instances in which keeping the axles tethered to the car appears to speed the car up while flipping increasing the ammount of energy in the crash rather than disapating the energy. IE Sheldon Haudenchilds crash at the nationals a few years ago.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owqOczUhVS0

When the car starts going sideways is when it gets scary watch Sawyer Phillips car from the 360 nationals this year have the front axle come out of the car being attached by one tether, essentially making the car 6 feet longer and having more exposed parts for other cars to hit. https://youtu.be/cdNu9dE3fvM?t=1m58s 

I just think we need to be proactive instead of reactive...

Agree there could be some additional risk of injury to the driver, but isn't one of the primary purposes of the tether to keep the debris from the racecar from impacting a fan/pit crew?  There have obviously been many instances in all types of racing where this has happened.

If that is a primary purpose, the next question would be how much safer are fans and how much additional risk is it to the driver as a result of using tethers?  Not sure how you measure that.

Finally, again if keeping fans safe is a priority, is there a better and cost efficient way to accomplish this rather than using the tethers?  

I can see where that's a potentially lethal situation.  That broken axel with the jagged end is a like spear waiting to happen.  Actually I believe that the tethers were mandated out of a fear that an axel could get into the stands and as illustrated in this video it's a dangerous situation for the drivers.  Especially at a high speed place like Eldora.

The reality is that racing will never be 100% safe.  But we already knew that or if we didn't we should have.  I think it's safer than it was when I was a kid back in the late 50's and early 60's but I don't think it's possible to take all of the risk out of the sport to drivers and fans.  Just one of those ugly little truths that we don't like to think about.

Stan Meissner

Risk and risk acceptance.  Drivers are in a far better place to be protected if a part flies around like that than a fan in the open  

Hypothetical situation here. Part flies off car and into the stands and kills two young kids.........  If your a track owner and that happens, do you care to find out how far that release liability will take you?  Do you think your facility and reputation can survive the public lashing it would take?  All other forms of motorsports have moved to tethers to keep large items from flying into the stands, why not your facility?  Care to see if a scumbag lawyer can side step the liability waiver because the track and track promoter didn't show due diligence and have tethers?  

Which is the lower risk?  A single driver getting hurt participating in an event they know is dangerous, or have a fan or group of fans killed by something that all the know it alls would claim should have been prevented and convict you and your facility in the court of public opinion?  

I've been saying from day 1 that these tethers are a bad idea. The sport is already far more dangerous for the drivers than it is the fans. Yes they accept that risk but what many fans seem to ignore is that we also assume all the risks that come with sitting at a race track. Its a risk I'm well aware of and if I told you I didn't think about it every time I sit in the stands and watch a race, I'd be a liar. The fact is, far more drivers have been killed in sprint cars than fans being killed by parts of sprint cars. One thing all tracks can do, is make sure they have well built catch fences in the spectator areas that are also high enough in the air to prevent things from the cars from going over top. If the fence is high enough, if something does make it over top, that gives people an extra few seconds to see it coming and get out of the way or at least do what they can to protect themselves. Also, the longer the projectile is in the air, the more speed it will lose before it reaches its destination therefore giving people a little more time to react and packing less force once it gets there. These tethers are not the answer. It's only a matter of time until a driver gets impaled because of these things. Like I said, I assume that risk. I've seen it happen first hand and the guy was sitting about 6 feet away from me. It wasn't pretty but it is reality. We all know what can happen. I've introduced a lot of people to the sport and among the first thing I've told every one of those people is to PAY ATTENTION. When the green flag waves, keep your eyes on the race track and put your damn phone away because shit happens and when it does, that extra second or 2 might save your life. 

It is not a good thing in my opinion for the driver. 

Racing is a dangerous sport for drivers, crew and fans. You wanna get your rocks off on golf or badmitton so be it, but don't tell me what to do with my weekend. Thats why we do it.

I think tethers can trace their roots to Knoxville and the tendancy for parts to end up on highway 14 and sometimes propell themselves as far as the parking lot across the road.  I'm willing to bet the old farmer and his wife making their weekly trip to the Hy-Vee didn't sign a waiver or assume any risk of encountering racing parts while grocery shopping.  I think most would agree that short of putting a dome of fencing over the entire track Knoxville can boast some of the best catch fencing in the sport.  These cars have gotten so fast and light that the physics can easily exceed the ability of the tracks to contain them. 

I understand what you're saying about paying attention.  I had just left the infield to run up and use the porta john at the left of the frame in this clip minutes before this happened.  Admittedly in this case the track was in the process of replacing fencing and thought they had the area barricaded and roped off enough to prevent what happened.  Word is that the work is being completed this off season.  Meanwhile I could have been the one emerging from the john and running like hell.  https://youtu.be/V2bmoo5eVyU

Another incident I saw last summer was this one from the opposite end of the infield at Cedar Lake.  In this case a car got launched over the wall, crossed a runoff area, knocked down fence poles and went through the fence and up the bank where specators sit.  The saving grace was the fence fabric wrapping the front of the car and stopping it like a dog on a short leash inches short of disaster.  https://youtu.be/8PjvSoh2Ha0

Both of these incidents involved 360's and illustrate the volatility of these cars.  I'm not an apologist for either track so no need to get into the coulda shouldas, I'm just saying that sometimes unexpected stuff happens.

Stan Meissner

You're exactly right Stan. I don't know what would happen if something tragic were to occur like you described at the Hy-Vee across the street. You have a good point there and one that I didn't think of. Something like that is a whole different problem and I can see where Knoxville would want to prevent that. If that were to happen, I can see where the Speedway may be in a lot of trouble. I've always told people new to the sport to look around and think of a place where a sprint car can't end up and more than likely, its already happened lol. That said, I still can't get to a point where I'm OK with the tethers as is. I just feel like they pose way too high of a risk to the drivers themselves. I remember Danny Dietrich being very vocal about them as well as many other drivers and I don't blame them. I won't claim to know the answer but these videos I've seen of flipping cars whipping the wheels and axles around coming dangerously close to breeching the cockpit and injuring the driver really concern me. I hope something a little better can be worked so that that it can be safer for the drivers as well. By the way, that video of the car jumping over the fence into the pit area is SCARY. I take it no one was injured? If so that's a miracle. I fear we're going to see the same thing happen at Port Royal one of these days. They replaced all of the inside guard rails with jersey barriers. They look nice and all but I'm afraid we're going to see a sprint car ramp one of those just like that car in the video and end up in the infield.

Put drag link tethers from the radiator frame X to the axle on each side. Put some kind of quick disconnect on the straps.

Get rid of all Jersey Barriers at any track that runs sprint cars they make a nice jump for the cars.

One of the better posts that I have read in a while.   Combined with the comments of the parts landing in the Hy-Vee parking lot, and it is obvious that tethers are here to stay.   Also, the videos tend to show you what you want to see.   You see tethers keeping the parts near the car and potenitially hitting the driver.   I see tethers keeping debris near the car and away from the stands.  

What you see in the video is both. Yes it keeps the parts near the car and out of the bleachers but those parts bouncing around are posing an enhanced risk to the driver. I'm not against taking measures to keep the stuff from flying into places where it can hurt people but we can't just conclude that drivers already accept much more risk than the fans so what's the harm in one more thing. What we're going to see in one of these videos some day is a piece of an axle sticking out of the face sheild of a drivers helmet. I don't have a problem with trying to make things safer for the fans within reason and watching the way those axles get whipped back into the area of the cockpit isn't reasonable. It poses a much enhanced risk for the driver and if you ask me, the risk it poses to them has a higher probability of ending in tragedy than the risk of an untethered axle flying into the crowd or elsewhere. Like I've said before, I don't have the answer. I don't know a whole lot about the technical aspect of these cars but what I do know is, I've seen the videos and I've heard the concerns from many drivers who say the same thing that I am and that is that this current tether system isn't the answer. We need to keep things as safe as possible for everyone at the track but in my opinion, its not a good thing to do it at the expense of the drivers. Surely there has to be a better way. I'm not smart enough to figure it out but I hope someone else is because I don't want to witness a driver getting impaled by an axle or clubbed to death by a wheel anymore than I want to see another guy take a wheel and axle to the face like I did at Port Royal many years ago when I was a kid. 

In the first video posted, he actually didn't have tethers on at all. Looks like he did but there wasn't. Coming from Kyle himself...

We did NOT have axle tethers.  We did, however, have a drag link tether.  Can you believe that this car only needs a front clip?  Thanks to J & J for a safe car!!  p.s. we will have axle tethers next year

There is a better option for the tethers. I brought this up to the WoO officials when the tether rule was first implemented. I showed them why the current system is dangerous and how to fix it, the officials did nothing. And you can't build your own tethers because the insurance companies won't approve it. Fact is these tethers are dangerous for the drivers and someone will be killed. I refuse to put them on my car and race.

And if we're truly concerned about the safety of the fans why don't we mandate that the tracks build better fences and walls? And why don't we mandate drug testing for drivers? What's going to happen when a fan gets injured from a crashing car driven by a driver under the influence of a controlled substance?

Thanks for setting the facts straight.

Just another instance of of the no rules crowd being completely full of shit.

They would be twice as expensive, twice as dangerous for drivers and fans a like, and be stuck like a bunch of slot cars if you listened to a lot of these clowns.

They forget the reason that every major auto series already has all these rules and then some is because they already went through it. They have already killed fans.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com