Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

Hey JD, hows it going?

Heres my thoughts;

How are these "Unions" going to decide the payouts? Wouldn't promoters "Kringe" knowing money is going to not hit their pocket like usual? Wasn't most of this what the ORA was supposed to do? It doesn't matter what kind of union you have, if the promoter (dictator) says no, then what? If these unions tell promoters that we will do it this way, that promoter will probably just lock the gates!

I understand what you're saying & I'm for it, (I'm on your side) but it looks like a "mutiny" to a promoter!!!

The ORA at SFS to me is useless except when it come to the end of the year payoff for top ten. Don't get me wrong, the booster club does a great job & they are to be commended for all they do. But a little dictator that rules the roost & won't listen to "anyone" on better ideas or safety issues will not put up with a "Union".

Just my 2 cents for what its worth!!!!!!!!!!

Flash
New website!!!!!!!!!

www.flashracecarbodies.com

Let me give my point of view of this. As a past board member of the ORA, we can only do so much. We don't have any power to make or change any of the rules,just try to be a voice between the driver and the promoter. One of the reason I gave up my spot on the board was because the driver complained about this and that and would say the Ora won't do this or that but when we would ask them to help with soomething,they were too busy or didn't want to get involved. But they sure would jump at taking the money for the top ten. Now what you are talking about would be be something to think about. I always thought it would be nice to have a lot of investors and have our own track with a board of director like a business and the driver and owner anr the member that control the board of director and all changes are voted on. Just a thought.

Too bad about Colby's car.

I was at SFS a few weeks ago & tried to talk to Lanny about getting more cars in the Prostocks & he just laughed at me & walked off. He doesn't want the class to survive in my opinion!!!!

I'd like to see a united set of rules for all classes. So you can go run wherever you want. I know the mods are pretty close but with some differences at various tracks. But I don't see that happening!

But great topic JD. Hope Colby's car gets going soon!

Take care!

Flash
New website!!!!!!!!!

www.flashracecarbodies.com

good post bobcat and flash. But I don't see it ever happening. At least not while Lanny is operating the track. I think for that to work you need a promoter who agrees to and encourages that concept. I can't comment on what the booster part of the ORA does.......but I really can't see what the purpose of the ORA is outside of raising some money for the point fund. I don't mean this personally but the pres. of the ORA is a driver who not even a full year ago was caught cheatin. I don't see how you can have a driver preside over something like the ORA.......and then talk of wanting the ORA to have more of a say in statewide racing (rules and such). JMO

I don't think any of the promoters want to get on the same page. Lanny has his friday night show at OKC and there is not 1 track that conflicts with it........Lawton is different in that regard but the way he runs Lawton in general is a complete myth to me. And there are so many tracks competing against each other. Creek and Brill compete for cars Caney and MAS do too......not to say there is any bad blood at all but one is not going to support ideas that might result in them losing cars to a track they are competing with. when it comes to racetracks it just seems like right now there might be too many lines in the water and not enough fish.

In short.......I like this idea of Bobcat's but I just don't see it happening. Unity between promoters or sanctions or whatever will never happen in this sport until things get really really bad and it's the only way to save it. JMO

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

The problem with Lawton, is it's not ran by anyone really. Lanny is hardly ever there. Sure he probably wouldn't put up with the bs, but to deal with it, you have to have someone strong enough to stand up and put their foot down EVERY saturday night.

Lawton has potential to be a great track again, if they could get some good strong mangement and straighten out the problems. It's a fast tight track that will test a drivers capabilities. Many years ago when the WoO used to run in Lawton, many of the drivers said is was a favorite track of theirs to run. How I miss those days......Now we can't even get you guys from OKC, ect. to come down anymore....Is it the track conditions or the managment? Either way something needs to be done. As it is, I'm seriously considering driving up there every friday night, just so I can watch some good competitve racing.

Christina
Air Max HVAC Systems

Anybody who doesn't believe history repeats itself needs to read this thread. Seriously, ya'll need to talk to Danny Swick, or maybe Charlie Kammerzell, Bill Bishop, or some of the folks who were around in the '60's and early '70's. The factors that went into it would take too long to cover, and anyone who was involved has their own take on it, but the ORA went on strike against Bud Carson and MAR-CAR and took over promoting their own races. It didn't take very long before they were hunting for someone to save them from themselves. Racers, by definition, are competitive, not co-operative. That's the way it is, and after a short time, that was a problem. The real irony was that when Larry Hill, who took over from the ORA, went broke and it looked like the track might go dark, the guy who came in to bring it back was Bud Carson. Driver unions have been tried repeatedly in Indy car, as far back as the '30's, in NASCAR, and lots of smaller operations, and it always winds up the same way. Good idea, but I think it was the comic strip character Pogo who said it best..."we have met the enemy, and he is US."

I'll say this , Lanny has had a "Drivers Strike" if you could say it was at Lawton back in the mid 70's, Lasted one whole Sat. night , some drivers sat down by Bishop School on Sheridan Rd. and tried to get you to turn around and not attend the races that night , Lanny got more news coverage out of the deal and a huge crowd who came out to see what it was all about , Cars lined up to get to Lawton Speedway halfway to Lee Blvd., Lanny just went on and raced that night with who would race mainly out of towners and moved on It was about the purse/money if I remember right, did not work then,they(locals) were all back racing the next Sat. night, heck that may have been when he came up with his famous slogan , "If you don't like how it is here , then go find somewhere else to race"

Bobcat , Lanny likes this scenario real well , get you there , get your money and get you outta there and start counting the money .

I think all this boils down to Some promotors not caring anymore. Its all money for them. I know money makes the world go around but you dont have to worship it. I think that a track needs a promotor that undertands what racing is all about. The LOVE OF RACING!!!! the key word is LOVE. I cant talk about anyone but Mark Brill. It seems lanny dont care about drivers and racing and everyone knows. That is what i have seen. I know not many of the race drivers like Mark very much but the main reason he got a track was because he loves racing. Not because of the money. Matter of fact i dont think he has made much if any money sice he opened. I know there arent many cars at meeker but with Mark its the LOVE OF RACING. And i also have to say that its not just the promotors its the drivers too. Look at the money being dumped into the cars at any track. Its everywhere not just the city. The drivers are making it impossable for the average joe to become a race driver. I know that racing is not cheap. Well i dont think there is a hobby that is cheap but everyone needs to help one another. There is no reason to hate anyone out there. Dont you realize that racing is in our blood. We are a family out there. Im only 20 years old but when i go out there it feels like another family. Racing is supposed to be fun and everyone has forgotten that. Most people root for the ones that win all the time but the ones that need to be admired are the ones that dont win. the ones that are on the back week in and week out. Those are the ones that have still got the real goal in their eye. They love racing and to them it dont matter if they win or loose but that are a RACE CAR DRIVER. That title right there has more meaning to me than a boss or a manager or even a president of a business. So with that said im done and sorry for so long but until we can get people to realize the real reason for racing the sport is going to spiral downhill.

Dont get mad at me, im just the pushtruck guy.


www.myspace.com/pushtruckguy

I have a question that i hope someone could answer..(Are the people in the press box at Lawton the same people in the press box at the City???????

Galen, I think the deal in the 70's with MAR CAR and Bud Carson, was two fold.  The new classes (fendered cars) just wanted to race, any rules, any purse, just let us race.  The open wheel guys wanted bigger purses.  The purse was based on attendance, so much per point based on the attendance.  Bud never released accurate crowd numbers, and no one else does either it seems. The ORA guys attempted a boycott, and Bud just ran his show without them.. If you remember, we ended up running on Tuesday nights, I believe in 1978, and MAR CAR ran on Friday nights. Its been a long time, but I think this is pretty much what happened. Every generation that comes along thinks the problems with promoters, racers cheating or spending too much money, favoritism, etc. is something new.  Us old timers have seen it over and over since racing began, and any union, boycott or corporation of racers won't change things.  If you like racing, accept it as it is, for what it is.  If you don't like it, go bowling.

I think its just 'The nature of the beast'. As racers we in general have more money than sence, some will say we all do! If a promotor lets us the drivers 'out dollar a class' we will more than likely do it.

I would love to see more give and take from both sides, driver and promotor, I think it could be better, but its a fine line that both have to walk. There are prolly some stocker guys that want jet rocket engines in an 'economy' class, and right next to that guy is another wanting to send the class back to stone wheels. Then you have some promotors that say dont like it than leave,and other promotors that try to make everybody happy, and that can bring more unhappy drivers than the other promotor.

I would just be happy with a set rules for all the tracks,and a set of rules that a guy on my budget can still race, have fun and be able to run good, and still be able to provide for my family!

All these are really good posts. JD (sprint) got it right with the Lanny scenario.

But I really agree with Chapa on drivers out-pricing a class of racecars. That is just too true.

There are all of these ideas and they're great, but I would just be happy if the rulebook was enforced at OKC. I think that would do more good than anything else. But it's gotten so far out of hand now (especially with fuel additives) that I doubt it will happen.

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

sounds like you are looking for a sanctioning body, why no go to imca

I guess OCRS is a sanctioning body, they tech cars , at Ada last month checked Carbs , pulled a header and Valve Cover and checked heads, The 305 deal in Texas Smiley's runs is I believe how it should be run , you get your parts checked before you assemble it and then it is sealed once assembled and must be sealed by a SST official from what I was told. Motors are simple basic motors 3.48 crank , 5.7 rods ,Flat top pistons , Alum. spec head $1200 complete and NOTHING can be done to them , NOTHING AT ALL, you bolt them on and race it. Flat Tappet cams with a lift rule and spring pressure rule and Fuel is checked after each race with a sniffer or sample and the seals are checked for tampering after each show as also what I have been told . Maybe that is why they have 38 cars pre signed in to run the SST show at Kennedale , Tx. this Sat. night. An affordalble sprint class that ENFORCES the rules, Imagine that.

The USAC ford Focus class is suppose to be a sealed engine class but I have heard stories of guys doing things to the motors. I am not saying everyone is this way but if rules are set there is going to be someone out there that will try to bend them or break them. Most of you guys have seen this or know someone that has done it.

I would like to see a set of rules for Okc and the surrounding tracks but I think some promotors would not like it. More cars means more payout to the drivers. My dad was going to the fairgrounds alot while I was younger and he has kinda slowed down going out there but when he does he is confused about what they should be running in the cars because of all the different rules out there.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

SprintJD, how close are their rules comparted to Salems in Kansas?

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

Not sure what you mean by more cars more payout to the drivers, maybe the promoter but not the drivers, sure you can bend any rules, but if you have a knowledgeable tech person who knows what he is looking for and has tools to help him tech and actually does it on a consistent basis, you can catch those that bend the rules , Tough to get things by someone who has knowledge and is around the stuff all the time.

I would bet if you sent Kelly Westphal down here on some Friday night from Wesmar Racing Engines in Bixby and gave him these set of tools that Brodix gave to SFS back when they first started the Spec. Head deal and he did tech. He would be able to see if the rules are being followed.

David , From what I have seen and read , the Heads are the big differnce , In Ks. they have a steel head rule with certain # on the heads you can run , in Tx. it is an Alum.Spec Head and it is $1200 for the head complete , you just bolt it on and race it, no other modifications can be done and you run the valves and springs , retainers and all other parts that come on it , they comply with the spring diameter rule and pressure rule that Smiley has in the rules (follow French Grimes rules in Virginia/Pennsylvania) I think it is a better deal because if you do lose a motor and get a head it can be fixed.

Hey it is not totally fool proof but it is pretty close , check Smiley's rules at the SST website and they get pretty detailed , the thing is they make sure your motor is right before you put it together and then they check you as you race throughout the year and make sure you still follow the rules. Main thing is they TECH the cars all throughout the year. I have talked to several guys who run the SST series Jay Smith from San Angelo is one of them and he has told me Smiley runs it with an Iron fist, you follow the rules or your out and on suspension or not ask to come back, It must be working ,like I said earlier 38 pre entered cars at Kennedale Speedway this Sat. night. and the 305's are nearly all over the midwest Tx.,Ks.,Missouri,Iowa , Ohio,Indiana and been back in Virginia and Pennsylvania for about 10 or so years now, in fact got a friend Lou Long who does a column in the Area Auto Racing News in the Northeast that sits by us at the Chili Bowl every year has been telling me that they are now trying to start the 305's in Western Pa. around Pittsburgh. So something must be good about the deal. Guess we have just not found the Good here in Okla. yet.

JD sprint, I meant the Promotors sorry for the confusion.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen