Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

With rumors of purse decreases and one night events requiring thousands of miles of road time, many outlaw regulars are talking about running their own schedule (not running all over the country) in 2012. The Goodyear tire rule has cost teams more money for an inferior tire.

In recent years, WOO has cut the point fund and has not had a regular major sponsor since the days of Ted Johnson. Also, the schedule has decrease from 90-plus races a year to a little over 60. Teams say it doesn't pay them to follow this abbreviated schedule all over the country when they could run more events such as the Ohio and PA Speedweeks without the excessive travel costs.

Also, teams are upset that some drivers who choose to run their own schedule, such as Sammy Swindell, get full tow money and entry privileges at the events they show up. What they say is, nonregulars are treated better than the regular teams.

Also, SLS has taken control of many of the events. As teams put it, we drive by great race tracks to run at craphole tracks. Many tracks are not even allowed to get an event without partnering with SLS.

Can't say as i blame them. Hopefully the WOO can get something figured out because losing a national circuit could end up being very bad for sprint car racing. I know it wouldn't hurt areas that are rich in sprint car racing, but in areas like mine where there is no sprint car racing, there would be nothing for anyone to follow. Why would i follow the Pennsylvania tour if i know i am always 12 hours away from seeing anyone on that tour race? That would suck. But, like i said, can't blame them. These purses keep getting smaller or staying the same and costs keep skyrocketing. I mean, seriously, $50,000 to win the King's Royal for 20 years in a row? (and i know the king's royal will be around without the WOO's help, it is just an example) I would have to think $50,000 to win that thing in 1988 would have been financially huge. Now, that is a drop in the bucket. I'm pretty sure the ticket price and attendance of the event has increased fairly steadily every year. At least Knoxville has been doing the right thing at the nationals with the purse every few years.

The point about the King's Royal is well taken. When the race was first announced in the mid 1980s, $50,000 to win was a big deal. Now, $50K to win is not going to make anyone's head spin, especially when the Nationals are paying triple that just for first. Not that the Outlaw tour ever made sense financially except for a car owner looking to drop a million bucks, but once fuel costs went from $1.50 a gallon to $4 a gallon, the math part of it sure doesn't seem to work.

I know we are mostly Sprint Car fans on this board, but here is my question. How can the Dirt Late Models have so many races that pay 20K, 30k, 40K and SEVERAL over $50,000 every year?. The tracks that run these races don't appear to be able to hold anymore fans than the Sprint Car tracks. It seems like almost every week the Late Models run for a big paying race ( races that pay pretty well throughout the field as well) and I don't hear too many Late Model fans complaining about outlandish ticket prices. Somehow the Lucas Oil & WoO Late Model series are finding a way to make it work, why can't the WoO Sprints do the same?

Can't really compare the KR and Knoxville Nats. The KR you can pull in Saturday and win the $50 grand, Kville your there for 3 days. I do understand $50 grand 20 years ago was great and not so much anymore. But it's better pay than most races.

Cheers!

Excellent post and observations, with few inaccuracies... the "tow money" part is incorrect..

The bottom line in any of this is the average driver/team HAS to make money to go down the road. The costs of racing one night if "nothing" goes wrong are very high and if you finish lower than 3rd, you probably lost money. If things do not go well, the costs are astronomical!

While the thought process behind SLS promoting races to take one of the processes of selling a race out of the hands of WRG, it seems they have become the narrow minded all-controlling tyrant that is becoming (or has become) a liability to the success of this series.

While I also understand that if you "tie" a vendor (drivers) to a distributor (WRG/WOO) to a contract to make sure that when the show date arrives, you can guarantee that "X" number of cars will be at that event, the vendor can NOT be denied the opportunity to make a living if it does NOT AFFECT his contractual obligation to be at their (WOO) event. What they (WOO, WRG and SLS) can not seem to get through their collective skulls is that ANY driver racing ANYWHERE that does not affect his appearance at their booked show, has nothing but a POSITIVE EFFECT on their position, well-being and financial goal....

They are effectively cutting off their nose to spite their face. I have owned and operated a very profitable business for 15 years. I knew how to make money. I can tell you it wasn't done by threatening, penalising, trying to exclusively enslave them with a "contract" or in any way screwing them over... It JUST DOES NOT WORK!...

edit: For example, your employer dictates that you work from 8am to 5 pm Monday through Friday. You agree that for x dollars you will agree to that. You miss Tuesday, and you are penalised Tuesdays pay, right? Well what would you do if your employer said that since you missed Tuesday, I think I'll just cut your pay for the remainder of the year by 50%.. You would go ballistic! Now, he further adds that on Saturday AND Sunday (YOUR TIME - in no way affects Monday through Friday) that you cannot leave your house no matter what. You have a part-time gig cutting grass on the weekend (who doesn't need a second job these days) and you can no longer do that.. Would YOU stand for it?

Stay tuned.....

Come next february the teams will be right back where they are now. The teams cannot run for less
money then they are right now. They are not going to go race for twenty five hundred to five thousand to
win.

Folks, there's a new fisherman in town and it looks like their bait is working really well.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

I'm not sure you're analogy is accurate. For most businesses people don't patron them just to see the employees. Them working a part time job on the weekend probably doesn't affect said business. Unless of course, they're doing the same job for the competition for a lower price! If I work for your grass cutting business you probably wouldn't care if I worked on cars on the weekend for extra money. But if I'm out there mowing lawns for less money you might not be too happy that I'm taking away potential business.

The entertainment industry is a little different. People DO go to a WoO race to see those guys race. But if I can see Steve Kinser and Joey and Donnie and Jason, etc, at a Thursday night non-sanctioned race for $15 I might not be so inclined to pay $30 to watch them on Sat at a sanctioned race. If that becomes the norm the WoO will lose appeal and have less money to distribute. They're just trying to protect the value of their product. They feel they can all make more money by limiting their appearances. Its the old supply and demand theory. Whether or not that's true is up for debate.

No one is forcing these guys to accept the WoO terms. They could run all the WoO races and still run any others they want. They just forfeit the right to collect all the guaranteed WoO money that's available. A few guys do just that. Tim Shaffer and Sammy come to mind. But there always seems to be at least 10 guys who think they can come out ahead by partnering with the WoO.

Some of the top late model guys do their own thing. Look at Billy Moyer's schedule. He doesn't run any particular series for points and corresponding bonus money. But I bet he nets nearly as much money doing it his way. If he didn't he wouldn't be doing it. Sprint car guys can do the same thing if they have enough confidence. Guys are going to do what's best for themselves at the time.

Just my .02.

There are a lot more late model fans across the country than sprint car fans. Just look at the number of weekly tracks.

The good old days they use to race during the off nights like at Eldora and Sprint week. Buts thats before they had big sponsers on there cars. They had to race to eat and make it to the next race.Now there all rich kids starting out in top notch cars.

Cheers!

Well you have to wealther then my parents.

Maybe thats why Larson races more then other drivers. Hes not rich or has a big sponser yet.

Gosh, isn't this great? A meaningful, thoughtful discussion on Hoseheads! :-)

You make good points as well.. Some of the argument will always resolve around subjective reasoning and philosophies.. Non-Sanctioned versus Sanctioned.. Would MOST of the crowd make a 200 mile drive on Thursday to save the $15? I dunno..

There is truly no "correct" situation that will please everyone. There is, IMHO, a disparity in the individual contracts that opens up some legal issues... and trust me, I don't want to see lawyers dictating another part of our lives!

But, I thinks it will really boil down to the title of this thread.. The only thing that has NOT increased in the last few years is the payout.. If you think hard about it, the ONLY thing that generates revenue for the WOO IS those [sic. 10] 12 drivers and teams that are the stars of the show. I don't know how successful they would be if they scheduled shows hoping that they would show up. The NST move was a year too early and if Fred would have had the opportunity to see it through, I'm am positive that we would not be having this discussion.... Heck, if Ted were still around....

If we had more small businesses instead of huge corporations and governments we would be better off as well!

Great thread..

the circle of life and the woo.....go hand in hand imo only. for many years they were the "premiere" sprint car series. those days are over with many local shows being just as good "or better". imo only it seems that they have demanded their way for too long now, pushed promoters and locals into the ground......it's over for them!

we should be attending and giving our time and money to our local guys, they need it!!!

again here boyz and girlz, jmo

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

Actually the Kings Royal pays a little better than 3rd place for the Nationals A-Main (about 13k more)

i believe its because the late models are more durable or should i say not upside down and the more cars that show and put on a good show the sponsors keep coming and there are still some garage late models that can run with the high dollar teams , unlike the sprints high dollar teams ,the majority cannot run with the likes of tsr week in and week out . but nothing like a great sprint car race when the car counts are up and the stands are full . its all money of course .

We need more sprint car racing at our home track.