Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

If you had an average finish of 3rd every regular night of the year (an fantastic season I think most would agree) your average check would be $2,00.00 X 15 nights a season that would gross you $30,000.00

It's been bantered around on here maybe $800.00 to a $1,000.00 a night for expenses (tires, fuel, pit passes, accrued engine repairs, travel expenses and nickel-dime items) so use the low end of $800.00 X 15 nights that's $12,000.00 subtracted from your gross leaves $18,000.00 for a net.

You'd have some really decent $$$ at banquet time as an owner ....say $6,000.00 for 3rd in owner points.

If you are paying your driver 50% that leaves $9,000.00 + your $6,000.00 owners check for a ROI (return on investment) of $15,000.00

To have a average finish of 3rd you would need a crew, a number of spare engines, complete race cars, spare parts out the ying-yang and a big trailer and tow rig to drag it .... where I am going with this .... is the purse (that Knoxville pays their 410's is pretty amazing by ANY dirt track weekly show standards) but in the scheme of things ... the purse cannot .... and will not support the investment required to be competitive ....it takes SPONSOR $$$$ as much or probably more than purse structure.

The economy is still contracting (read: businesses are struggling) and it doesn't look any better in the near future.

Car counts ....crowd counts....sponsor investments (advertising spending) are going to remain 'tight' until the economy becomes better .... much .... MUCH better and not just because Bernake and the other 'elitists' and 'talking heads' in D.C. continue whistling by the graveyard and telling us 'Happy Days Are Here Again' .... sorry ...but if it is so much better, they are so confident and have such glowing economic reports to exclaim .... they need to come live in the REAL world and THEN tell us how the 'great recession is now over' (with a straight face.)

S.H.S.

I'm all for the new engine rule and hope it gets the 410 count up. I just think that Knoxville is too dedicated to the 360 class. The teams that could move up with a restructured 410 payout would have that option and the rest could spend a little less money running 305's. The 305's would get our total car count up and would still be bringing money in through back gate promoting, which is all the 360's are now. 305's put on a good show for little $ and the 360's haven't been the feeder series (in Knoxville) that everyone was hoping it would be.

Good posts and ideas from all.

Limited sprints have been gaining in Central PA. Port Royal almost went 360 racing this year. Selinsgrove has been successful headlining 358s, but are considering going ASCS 360. Big shows have been keeping the Grove afloat, management is questionable, rumors have it for sale. Lincoln is our crown jewel because it's smaller, so it makes for close racing which draws the fans and cheaper engine bills keeping 410 car owners afloat. Even Lincoln still draws a lot more 358s than 410s though.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Knoxville's 360 Purse is as follows: A main: 1. $1250 2. $1000 3. $700 4. $550 5. $425 6. $350 7. $300 8. $275 9. $250 10. $225 11. $200 12. $175 13. $170 14. $170 15. $160 16. $160 17. $155 18. $155 19-20. $150

By my math, the LAST place car in the 410's already gets more than 4th place in the 360's. Reducing the 360 purse won't do anything to increase the 410 car count, will just reduce teh # of cars.

Biggest thing keeping cars from moving up right now is motor expense. They can run their 360 all season (~20-25 races for most local teams I have talked to making it once a season at most and sometimes once every 3 race seasons) without having to refresh it (unless they drop a valve, or other motor issues) where they have to refresh their 410 every 5-7 nights (2 times minimum even if only running @ Knoxville).

Eliminate the need for so much maintenence in the 410 class, and I think you'll see more cars (most guys indicate they want to run 410, they just can't afford it due to motor expense (and it's not the initial investment that's keeping them away, it's the maintenance).

Vande, what top 410 team at Knoxville freshens their motor every 5-7 nights?

The ones that win....McCarl, Droud, Brown, Dobmeier

Even the ones that don't win (or aren't the consistent winners anymore) spend a lot of $$ on motor maintenance: Maeshen, Jackson, Madsen.

Helps that there are a few motor guys in the pits on a weekly basis to make sure the guys are fueling them right to try to keep from burning them down, but I'd say Skip Jackson in particular got maybe 4-5 nights MAX on his motors last year before re-freshes due to valves or other issues (Shaver). Brown (Ostrich) changed his share of motors throughout the season as well. McCarl's (Ott) motors were true Outlaw motors the last couple of years.

I know some 410 teams may not be refreshing that often, but they also aren't winning....

Vande, you are wrong. Better talk to these guys that speak of. I have heard Brown and Mccarl say many times that they run their motors 10-12 nights. These kind of posts that say 410 teams freshen their motors every 5 nights are why the 360 guys are scared to move up. It's all bull. I do know some top 360 teams at Knoxville that freshen their motors after 10 nights. What about that? 360's cost as much to run as 410's now. New 360's cost almost as much as new 410's and they race for less. These are facts.

Not disputing that some 360 teams refresh after 10 nights (as do some 410 teams).

I've heard Brown and McCarl make those claims, and then watch them change motors after 5 nights.

Having watched motor changes in the pits after 5-6 race nights by the above teams (by going off of race results, I'll stand by my comments above that they are refreshing every 5-7 race nights).

When Brown runs 360 on virtually every off night from Knoxville, he shouldn't need to ever change a 410 motor until mid-season, yet he changes way more often then that (and most of those times are at the track during the program).

Do I wish some 360 Teams would move up to 410's. Of course I do.

However, I'm not stupid and can put together race results and look at a calendar. I can count how many times someone raced before I see them pull a motor (at the track no less) after hot laps, time trials, or even after WINNING a heat race. When they are asked over the PA about it, they say the motor is laying down and they'll have to have it freshened.

You are wrong. E-mail Brown and Mccarl and ask them. Better yet, call Ostrich and Ott and ask them. Have they changed at the track, all teams do. I say when teams take care of their engines properly like Brown/Mccarl they can easily go 10-12 nights.

You'll get no argument from me .... I am sure that was on the low .....VERY low side .... of what it costs ... just earlier this winter there was some stuff being discussed on this board about what it cost per night to run a various type (engine size) sprint car per night.

I just went with the low number .....B. Brown told my friend it was approaching (back in the summer of 2009) close to $1,500.00 a night ....but what did that include that might be beyond the 'norm'??

Dunno ...... suffice to say ....it aint cheap ....and it aint gonna get any cheaper.

S.H.S.

Easy Boys, I will tell you what Terry McCarl does with his Ott's but I cannot speak for Brian Brown. Terry races his motors a minimum of 10 nights. Last year he was injured on the 10th night on our engine. He was planning on finishing the weekend at Husets, which would have put 12 nights on it. We then put it in Austins car for Spencer and Cedar Lake. Austin was 3rd quick at Cedar Lake and ran well all night; the 12th night. We could have ran it more and in fact we were going to run it at Charlotte if Terry would have been able too. In '09 when Big Game owned the motors we did the same thing. In fact, in '09, we had no engine problems or changes at the track except for 1 night at Knoxville at a regular show. We have had excellant results with our Ott's over the last 4 years and have averaged only 1 blown motor per year running 80-90 races a year. We take good care of our motors and we generally run our fuel right off of Ott's fuel sheet he gives you with very good success. Lori McCarl

Thanks for the info Lori. Any ideas on increasing the 410 car count or are we just waiting for a better economy?

Azteca said: "MUCH better and not just because Bernake and the other 'elitists' and 'talking heads' in D.C. continue whistling by the graveyard and telling us 'Happy Days Are Here Again' .... sorry ...but if it is so much better, they are so confident and have such glowing economic reports to exclaim .... they need to come live in the REAL world and THEN tell us how the 'great recession is now over' (with a straight face.)"

How true.... what they won't admit is that the current recession is not just a cyclical thing, or a Wall St. booboo, but the result of YEARS of job losses; the de-industrialization of America. All the capital is being invested in scams like derivatives instead of real jobs & production.

Sorry to get political, couldn't resist... don't know how any sprint teams can afford it frankly, but I'm glad they do..... does Goldman Sachs sponsor a car??? .... didn't think so...

I see no reason to say you're 'Sorry' .....it is not political ....it is a 'cause and effect' explanation for why some areas seem to able to support 410 racing and some not.

I have seen the time that the average 410 car count weekly at Knoxville had to be approaching, or if not, over 30 cars a night.

This previous summer it had to be just north of 20 it that had to be close to 10 less per weekly show night from the high water mark of the late 90's or early in the 2000's.

Blame, fault ?? not really easy to answer .... it is the times we live in .... I couldn't agree more .... how do they afford it ??? dunno ..... but those of us that like super sprint 410 racing on a weekly basis with the knowledge the field is full of local feeling type drivers and owners ....I too and DAMN glad they do it ...........somehow.

S.H.S.