Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

I agree with fan who I think agrees with Messmer lol.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

I dont know what the bitch about is with too many black flags!! As a driver, not a fan, i get sick and tired of my car gettin torn up because some idiot thinks he can hit me and get away with it. The only measure on the track that keeps this from happening is the black flag. Dont give me some excuse that its for consultation. Black flag has many uses. One is for rough driving and there is alot of rough driving goin on at certain tracks and they dont use the black flag very much there. BMS has been pretty good about dealing with rough driving.

I know there is a fine line with good hard racing and rough driving, but unless you're footin the bill for puttin one of these cars back together because it was "good, hard racing" then you dont have alot to gripe about. There has been to many cars destroyed this year due to rough driving and it needs to stop. $30,000 race cars shouldnt be destroyed and be told it was good, hard racin. If you think that, then something is seriously wrong.

David, i know you meant good about what you were saying, but next time i'm at Smiley's or SMS buying parts or having a car clipped because some one was doin some "good, hard racing," and see how much it costs us, it might change your perspective just a bit and realize that its better to have a few more black flags.

Last month every body was down on officials for not using the black flag now this. Typical

i think what we should do is the last race of the season we should just throw the black flag away and let yall racers go out there and beat the hell out of each other. Just see what it would be like if you don't have to worry about getting flagged. Lets see if anyone finishes a feature. first its to not enough, then its to much. You guys are gonna have to realise that you cant flag a perfect race, no matter who you are. Crazydeke is very right. we don't flag a driver cause we don't like them or cause we have our favourites, its cause there is anywhere from 10 to 50 thousand dollars on the line. i hope it rains this weekend so that all you guys that are wound up from the race season can cool your jets. Come on now, we don't want any cars tore up and I know drivers don't. I don't know about you but i don't like 5 car features.

Dont get mad at me, im just the pushtruck guy.


www.myspace.com/pushtruckguy

Uness I am misreading what you are saying Announcer No offense but as a fan I take offense to the statement that is why they are fans which is short for fanatic... So I assume that means all fans have no clue what they are talking about so maybe since we should feel that our opinions are not right we need not go to a track cause we are too dumb to understand racing Well I for one think that was a statement that was kind of sh***y and for your information I have said What the H**l was my driver thinking that was just stupid. So please remember that without fans there would be no reason for drivers to come race hence no need for the track... Yes I agree not everyone is ever going to agree with all calls but lets remember it is not always fans that have issues with calls.

I agree with you on that Raymend can even count the laps better than the officials at Lawton ... I counted one night and on one of the heats they ran 11 laps before the white even came out and Raymond was waving it at 7 laps... He is good and does not hear a thing that is said by all of the guys . The real flagman is alot of times JUST PREOCCUPIED or day dreaming

I dont need fans to go and race. I dont do it for the fans, i do it for the love of racing. We like having fans but dont get the 2 ideas confused because most racers would still race if there wasnt anyone in the stands.

Blame Daniel Webster not me!! It's in his dictionary. "fan n. in the sense of a dvevotee is a shortening of fanatic, from the Latin fanaticus; pert. to a temple. "

I don't think fans are ignorant; quite the opposite many are very intelligent. I do think when it comes to "their" team, driver, sport, whatever they can be biased, and thats what I was saying.

On the other hand I have to question how bright a guy is who's half-naked; his face and body painted bright colors, sitting in a stadium in 40 below weather, cheering for some millionaire athlete, who doesn't even know he's there.

I found this on a track website from Texas and found it interesting!

THE BLACK FLAG AS IT SHOULD BE: RANDY SAYS SO.

This blog will deal with the black flag use for rough driving and will not address the other times it is needed for safety such as smoke, lose metal, flat tires and etc.

First of all it is real important for a track to have a 2-postiton penalty flag. We use the blue w/yellow strip for a 2 -position penalty. The reason the 2-p flag is necessary so that you do not have to hold back on rough driving penalties. Tracks that only use the black tend to try not to use it because it is like the death penalty to the offending driver. And usually this driver is one of the top drivers too. In fact most tracks just continue to say "we didn't see the hit" so we can't penalize anyone. The other stock answer you will get at most tracks when they do use the black is "I didn't make the call and I'm not sure who did" then after the big run around you usually can't find anyone who will tell you yes they called it and here is the reasons for it. In Either of these 2 scenarios, you know it amounts to plain old BS.

There are some drivers that think if they get their bumper up to the other cars door then they have the lead and have the right to pick the racing line. Now, I'll tell you why this is wrong and does not work as a standing rule. The object in point is to save all the drivers money from tore up cars. So, if the track is committed to having clean door to door racing then the car that is passing and if his head is "out" in the open (this is not always the case) then he has the vision and the car that he is passing does not have as much vision but probably can hear a car on his side. Now, we all know some drivers block and lean on you when you attempt to pass. In most cases if you pass on the outside they will not lean on you as much because it's common sense that you may not get by on the outside where if you pull up on the inside you usually have the pass made before they can lean on you. BUT WHEN THEY DO LEAN you must move over and not rub them if possible. The main reason a smart driver will mover over as they make a pass like this instead of hitting or rubbing the other car is simply to keep from knocking himself out. The driver that rubs them back or hits them back is risking 2 things. First thing is it is highly likely that it would cut his own tire down. Second problem is he may get a rough driving penalty when they get to the corner and the hit becomes harder than they might really want it to be.

In rough driving penalties the flagman can not and should not even try to decide if it was on purpose or not. If the hit is really hard or spins the other car out it usually should be reason for the black flag. If its hard but does not take out the other car then a 2-p penalty would be in order. If the pass is made with a slight amount of rubbing, then you can say rubbing is racing especially if the front cars was blocking. But in no case should the passing car be allowed to just take him out for blocking. A driver that pays too much attention to blocking and not enough to his driving will be easy to pass anyway. Who ever has their bumper in front has the right of way and can pick his line to enter the corner. If the rough driving is handled this way then everyone wins. Both drivers have less body work to do next week and it saves them both money and time. If you can not race clean then you need to get you a thunder bomber and have fun or go fishing.

One more important point is my favorite tease statement: "IT ALWAYS DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ARE" This is ALWAYS the case at all tracks. Including mine. Some will try to lie to you and say it ain't so but it is ALWAYS the case. I'm the only one that will tell you the truth. I do everything in my power to be as un biased and fair as I possibly can make it. Remember the next time it might be you that is the one being passed, you will want to to be clean too.

We will continue to use the 2-p flag and the black flag just as we hav ein the past. Keep the driving clean at theSpeebowl and all will be happy and have fun.

I really didn't want to put my .02 in here, .I held back for a while ..but here goes.......

Rubbin's Racing.

Pushing and Ramming in turns and when a car is out of shape on the straights is just un-sprotsman like conduct. The driver should get a (Radio verbal ) warning, then a 2nd Flag warning, then BF on the third suspected offense. ( Unless the offense is severe enought to warrant a BF for one offense.)

I say " suspected" because in most cases the official making the call is making a decision baised on input from other officials and what he might have seen first hand and its just an experienced guess that the drivers actions were intentional or reckless abandon. But the other issue is saftey and un-necessary show delays and car damage. That BF has a valid purpose in the right hands.

Aggressive driving wins races. But there are plenty of times to back off and pick your pass more carefully without getting into the car ahead of you. If you are constantly into cars and spinning others out, then maybe your skills are not as developled as they need to be, or your just a bump and rub kind of guy for fun, then you should expect to be BFed.

Close contact on dirt is like breathing. That is what makes dirt racing so attractive to all the fans and drivers. Its that chance that its going to be all lost or won on a critical pass opportunity.

Here is some old wisdom from way back. Check the track , set your car for the track moisture you think you will run on, race the best line for your car, and stay in your best line when passing as often as you can, adjust your line as moisture leaves the track, watch cars whos set-up is failing, and prepare to pass as they push up, or lose traction exiting, and finally.......here goes..I know Im going to catch it for saying this... if you get into a car accidently and it starts to spin, back off enough, 1/2 a micro second, to allow the driver a moment to recover, then move on around him and get back into your hard racing style....you still passed the car and I doubt you will be BF for it.

PS . If your track's Flagman seem a little too quick on the draw, lodge a complaint with the track promoter the next business day...AFTER you have calmed down. Present your grievance with a polite and respectful business like manner. The promoter is in business to make a profit. Your are a performer in his show. You both need each other, but remember he has a ton more driver drama to deal with every week besides you. Present your case and dont drag it out, then politley excuse yourself. You will gain his respect and that is a huge step to getting a wrong righted.

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

LMFAO!!!!

I like the P.S. As if you can go to LANNY EDWARDS and talk to him calmly. His answer is always "If you don't like it here go somewhere else". He colud give a shit less about what's going into his wallet. He don't care about the fans, drivers or track conditions. But the one thing he does make sure of getting is his corndog!!!!! Dumbass midgit.

CrazyDeke wrote something about not needing the fans to go and race and not doing it for the fans. Just know that this fan doesn't go to see your modified division run slowly around the track while rutting it up for the real race cars! You may want to make you a track in your backyard or something since without the fans that's where you would be racing. Fool!

"They're steering them sum bi***es with their right 
foot!"

Are you and OKCfan12 related? It sure seems that way. Or is it you've both been dipped out of the same bucket of shit? You don't say alot but you do get your point across. On the other hand OKCfan12 rambles on and on like a cow chewing it's cud. In the end you either get milk or shit. And I might add both are useful but only one will sour and leave a bad taste in your mouth. Which one are you?

I will agree that Mr Edwards is a busy , and as such has little time and energy to deal with hyper-excited driver complaints that his officials have decided and he has has agreed are final the night of the race. This is precisely why its better to wait till the next business day and try to visit with the track promoter on issues.

The idea that promoters are not profit motivated is not realistic. Sure it is.

The premise that fans are not important to promoters is as even more un-realistic, that's where the profit is; refer-to the above sentience.

Track conditions can be a little tricky to maintain, and often are not in the best shape by the A-Mains. I have seem LS stop races and prep the track. They do a good job at LS to prep the track during the week leading up to Saturday night. But like most things in dirt racing, everyone has their own preference for track conditions.

I like corndogs and hot mustard....hummm...

As for that last thing, I guess you must be looking for another place to race.  Dont poke a sleeping Dragon.

Mike

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

Sorry Mike,

I shifted gears on you. I didn't say ALL promoters. I only pointed to Lanny and beyond that finger pointing lays the 3 tracks HE promotes. All are being run into the ground.

Oh, by the way, Dragons are not real, they are part of a fantasy world.

Real or not, the analogy is the same, don't poke the Dragon.

Anyways....I thought we were discussing Black Flags being over used.

Why not post a string about Mr. Edwards and his business model you disagree with. Being specific about what you believe is causing your idea of the ground rushing up to meet Mr. Edwards tracks. Who knows you may make a point that Mr. Edwards can take steps to correct, even though you may never get the credit for it.

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

Me and OKCFan12 are not related nor were we dipped out of a bucket of poop. I like to get my point across quickly because I don't have much time usually. As far as in the end being milk or s*@t I don't really know about that. I was just sayin that even though someone may not race for the fans that is fine. Not very many do and that does not offend me one bit but to say you don't need the fans to race, I think that is wrong. With no fans you would not have a track to race at with other cars. Unless you do what I recommended and build your own track in your backyard.

Sorry If Wingin it has a modified or is related to crazy deke and was offended by my lashing out. I've never been asked if I came out of a bucket of poop though, that was funny. I think maybe he has doo doo in his soul. lol.

"They're steering them sum bi***es with their right 
foot!"

Man it was his opinion. If you don't agree tell him in a civil manner. Calling someone "shit" is not civil. A big problem on here is that people don't necessarily know other people. If you knew SFSFan you would know he is a great guy, just like most people on here.

I think what the professor was trying to say was if there is people in the stands or not he races because he loves it not because of how many people show up.(oh and the professor is deke inside joke) Me on the other hand i love looking up in the stands at the fairgrounds and seeing all those people watch its a rush.And i dont always agree with okc fan12 well ok never agree with him but i wouldnt call him a bucket of shit.Well maybe i would, NOT. We as racers know we need fans i think the professor knows that to but sometimes, can we just race for ourselfs.LOL And back to the black flag thing it was intetended for safety people. If you are oiling down the track or the person behind you, or you have a bumper or nerf bar sticking out and poke into the car in front of you, or even if you ran over another racer on purpose. so that person dont get pissed off and run over you and three other racers. thats what the black flag is used for. And guess what its used for BS too. So we have to deal with it and move to next week and Dont get a black flag again.JM2cents.

The Deeper The Better. GO DEEP!