Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Good to see you posting Hawker, it's been a long time since I've seen one of the old school members posting !  I think your right on the money here. The Outlaws are going to have to make some changes at some point. I'd love to see their drivers get more oportunities to compete with the High Limit guys it makes for a great rivalry and some great racing. 

Now in the latest saga of people finding something & anything to complain about, we have a twitter post. That's what upsets, offends and gets people riled up these days. To be clear, I don't really have a favorite in this perceived fight to the death/last sanctioning body standing contest that everyone has going on in their head. I am a race fan and my most favorite form of racing is 410 sprint cars. If there is a 410 sprint car race that I can get to with a decent quality lineup, I am generally going to go to it if it is within driving distance. Whether it is WoO or HL I don't care, both have great driver lineups, and both have proven to put on great shows so to me it is worth it. I am not employed by either, I do not have money invested in either, I do not subcontract with either, and I hold no allegance with either. I am just a fan and because of that, I don't care what either posts about the other positive or negative, I don't care if either mentions the other, I don't care who gets hired or fired by either, I don't care about either's inspection process, I don't care about either's scales or callabration, I don't care about either's ownership, I don't care how many fans have been at prior events, and I definately do not care what some guy overheard two guys not affiliated with anyone saying about something they heard from someone else. Both can run their business however they want to and do not have to appease me while doing it. The only thing that I and probably more than 99.99% of fans should worry about is, is there a race around me, where is it, how much does it cost, and am I able to make it. But good luck to each one who has not supported 1 or the other and are trying to boycott something that you never consumed in the first place. I am sure both series won't know what to do with the money they never were going to get from the less than 1% of you in the market in first place.  

If nothing else respect for the sport. I didn't expect it to happen over night just from what I witnessed in the past with the latemodel deal and only 4 teams left. (2 Kahne cars, CJB and 1a team). If you think it is cringy for them to acknowledge HL did you think it was patronizing when they gave credit to drivers winning in "lower series"? The outlaws keep advertising themselves as the best and they very well may be, but they have already been beat 7 times this year including 6 times by 5 different HL drivers. What did Ric Flair always say "To be the best, you have to beat the best. WHOOAAA"

Now in the latest saga of people finding something & anything to complain about, we have a twitter post. That's what upsets, offends and gets people riled up these days. To be clear, I don't really have a favorite in this perceived fight to the death/last sanctioning body standing contest that everyone has going on in their head. I am a race fan and my most favorite form of racing is 410 sprint cars. If there is a 410 sprint car race that I can get to with a decent quality lineup, I am generally going to go to it if it is within driving distance. Whether it is WoO or HL I don't care, both have great driver lineups, and both have proven to put on great shows so to me it is worth it. I am not employed by either, I do not have money invested in either, I do not subcontract with either, and I hold no allegance with either. I am just a fan and because of that, I don't care what either posts about the other positive or negative, I don't care if either mentions the other, I don't care who gets hired or fired by either, I don't care about either's inspection process, I don't care about either's scales or callabration, I don't care about either's ownership, I don't care how many fans have been at prior events, and I definately do not care what some guy overheard two guys not affiliated with anyone saying about something they heard from someone else. Both can run their business however they want to and do not have to appease me while doing it. The only thing that I and probably more than 99.99% of fans should worry about is, is there a race around me, where is it, how much does it cost, and am I able to make it. But good luck to each one who has not supported 1 or the other and are trying to boycott something that you never consumed in the first place. I am sure both series won't know what to do with the money they never were going to get from the less than 1% of you in the market in first place.  

It was nice to see the High Limit people make a post promoting the WOO event at Huset's  

https://twitter.com/HighLimitRacing/status/1803527576176009486

It was nice to see the High Limit people make a post promoting the WOO event at Huset's  

https://twitter.com/HighLimitRacing/status/1803527576176009486

Why in the world would the WoO ever acknowledge a direct competitor which broke away & took half of their roster?

This is a dirty, greasy, cut-throat business, and the little kiss-ass 'friendly rivalry' act that HL is putting on is actually kinda cringy.

But I see through things. 

Interesting note all 6 non outlaws that have won WoO races this year also won WoO races last year (Sweet, Rico. Bacon, Marks. Day, Courtney)  Fewer WoO races percentage wise have been won by non outlaws this year 7 of 30 this year 23.33% versus 22 of 72 last year 30.55%.  I'm just glad there are more races this year, especially mid week and more drivers are on pace to earn more money than ever this year. Keep it up WoO and HL, I hope both continue this way for decades to come. I would like to see more new team sponsors than new series sponsors, but that's another topic in itself. 

Is it ok if I don't give sh!t about any of this stuff and just watch who ever is at the track I am at or on the streaming event that I am watching? I would guess all the outlaws and HL guys read thed the contract they signed and were ok with it so I am not sure why I should care what they signed.

News flash..... sweet was the only full-time outlaw.... until this year.  Point being the HL guys so far this year have the Woo's number and that is not good news for the outlaws!

Good to see you posting Hawker, it's been a long time since I've seen one of the old school members posting !  I think your right on the money here. The Outlaws are going to have to make some changes at some point. I'd love to see their drivers get more oportunities to compete with the High Limit guys it makes for a great rivalry and some great racing. 

Its more like the woo has been on a downturn for years.  Fred Brownfield ring a bell?  Kinser was fed up with the woo enough to make the jump over to NST  years ago, then Fred got killed at his track, Grays Harbor raceway. Competition is good for business, makes people rampup their game and pay more attention as to what they need to achieve better than the next guy . Speaking of business if you havent ever owned any kind of business  at all you will never understand the process, or the outcome. Three successful businesses to my credit, a learning experience for sure, all did well due the fact that  I found a need and filled it!  No different here between the two here,i ts simple,  just waking people up to what the need is,simple.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but It's apparent that the WOO has started to offer bigger purses havent they?  So, why is that?  Do their drivers dislike more money to win the deal?  Do they up their game to win the bigger prize?  Are they unhappy about making more money?  Why is it happening?  Will two sanctioning bodies turn people away from sprint car racing?  Food for serious thought...HAMMERDOWN!

If nothing else respect for the sport. I didn't expect it to happen over night just from what I witnessed in the past with the latemodel deal and only 4 teams left. (2 Kahne cars, CJB and 1a team). If you think it is cringy for them to acknowledge HL did you think it was patronizing when they gave credit to drivers winning in "lower series"? The outlaws keep advertising themselves as the best and they very well may be, but they have already been beat 7 times this year including 6 times by 5 different HL drivers. What did Ric Flair always say "To be the best, you have to beat the best. WHOOAAA"

News flash..... sweet was the only full-time outlaw.... until this year.  Point being the HL guys so far this year have the Woo's number and that is not good news for the outlaws!

 This is sort of like 2020 when Larson won about everywhere he showed up. He doesn't do that now. I don't Larson forgot how to drive I think he made the other top teams step up their game.

Regardless of any competitive measure regarding the series or drivers, the Outlaws clearly have a massive advantage in brand recognition. Simply watching the streams and looking at the crowds will tell you that, regardless of quality of cars, drivers or racing.

Like it or not, the Outlaws are clearly perceived to be the gold standard. 

It makes perfect sense for High Limit to try to attach itself to the Outlaws for any reason possible to grow High Limit's brand within the existing and future fan base.

At the same time, it makes perfect sense for the Outlaws to act as if High Limit doesn't exist. In every business I've everbeen in, it has been status quo to ignore competition -even speaking down on it legitimizes said competition.

Not really hard concepts to understand. I still think more time is needed to understand if HL existing has bettered the sport overall, but I personally feel early indications are that it has. 

Using a quote by Ric Flair who was involved in a form of the entertainment industry thought to be a sport and furthermore fixed the outcomes, will not justify anything.  
 

Not sure how things will progress with the Outlaws or High Limit, but these things are currently happening:

- More races

- More higher paying races

- More teams, drivers, and crew being employed

- More sarisfied fans 

You may agree or disagree with the above, but the 1st 3 are pretty accurate.

Some may argue that the quality of fields may be dilluted, but look at it from this standpoint.  When the Outlaws and All-Stars existed, I associated the Outlaws as the major leagues and the All-Stars more of the minor leagues, a stepping stone to the outlaws.  This goes back to the past 30 or so years.  Now you have the Outlaws and High Limit and while you may by right looking at the Outlaws as diluted somewhat, it has produced a higher level in the High Limit Series that is above the former All-Stars.  Given time, we may see both sanctioning bodies elevate their rosters with an equal number and depth of talent on e possessed by just the Outlaws.  Plus we now have seen growth in the Fast Series.  I'm just going to sit back an enjoy.  Not my business to take a side or question a driver or teams decision on which series to follow.  They are the one's that front the finances!  Just enjoy the many opportunities out there!