Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Let me preface this by stating I'm a big Larson fan.  However, we've seen this story before.  A new sexy sounding series to challenge the outlaws rises . . . then falls as fast as it appeared.  Big names (top 3 in points from WoO) have jumped ship to join these series, and even that wasn't enough to make them go more than 2 years.  I love the idea of pumping new and more life into the 410 outlaw scene, because like any other business, you have to have a plan for growth and increasing the quality, value, and benefit of your product.  Competition is probably the greatest factor in driving businesses to reflect and improve.  If nothing else, hopefully this drives the WoO to do that.  I don't see HL ever becoming as long-lasting, as WoO.  It would be like a new Cola company trying to usurp Coke or Pepsi.  One is timeless, and one is new and intriguing.  At the end of the day though, I don't think any of this is a detriment to sprintcar racing.  Not in the grand scheme of things anyway.  

The 2025 season should be interesting for High Limit.   There will be 5 charters up for grabs and the top 5 drivers (from 2024) will already have charters.             That is when it may get very tempting for the Outlaws to jump ship and chase a High Limit charter.       They would have a better chance since the top tier will already have their charters and not be competing for one.       

Either way, it is nice to see fans, drivers, and (former WRG) employees so excited about this new venture.

Disclaimer:  I don't have a crystal ball.   

10 charters,  my understanding after that 0 $$$ for 11 on back... so who will be jumping ship!

I think if you looked into the charters that Kyle and Brad are talking about you might see why more teams are at least interested in starting down that road.  The potential for more money in the future is what's drawing them in right now.  Who knows how that will all work out but it's the carrot they're offereing and it appears to be helping some at this point.   

I'm not sure where you're picking that up. As I read it, the charter owners don't get tow money or end of year point money(?) instead, they get a % of the streaming money. I could be pretty far off, because the details all seem to be very preliminary.

My opinion (a disclaimer so ergas doesn't stroke out) HL will probably backtrack on the requirement that you have to hit every race in order to be eligible for a charter. To finish top 5, you'd have to hit most every race anyway. More likely would be some bonus points for making the California swing so that anyone serious about finishing top 5 would be there. Carrot, not stick.

Give a listen to David Gravel's latest podcast on youtube with guests Paul McMahan & Joey Saldana who discuss the value of a good regional series like the All Stars which provided a place to groom up and coming drivers and crew members as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzdjhpyy-bw

So points and tow money for 11 on back... so a end of year champion and end of year points champion ?

And once you have a charter,  can you loose it or do you have to earn it every year?

Can you sell your charter?

Sweet could run the 49 KKR car this year for the Charter then switch to the 9 KKR car next year. KKR would have 2 Charters. The 57 will put someone in the car to complete the year and get a Charter. With Rico and Meyers 14 car would equal half of the Charters. See the connection? I know.....conspiracy theory. But it does all fit.

Just like everything else in life, follow the money trail.  Nobody is doing all of this this work and investment for any reason but to enhance their future and wealth. There is nothing wrong with that. But, don't pretend that they're doing all of this to save the sprint car world.  

Simply put.....No way in Hell they are doing all of this simply for the betterment of the sport. If that was the case they wouldn't have bought the Allstar's simply to destroy it. They bought the Allstars to get Eldora for credability and eliminate competition. That was a great business move. There is a great plan in place but it really doesn't include the local racer any more than the WoO. 

I feel it's a special club and in most cases you aren't in it. There again, that's fine. just don't pretend. 

It's always about the money.

Just remember the first big lie.  "We are not doing this to be competition to the Outlaws". So that's the first big lie where it all started.....If you lie to me once I can never believe everything you say ever again.

So basically what you are saying is at the end of the day a team has to agree to run all the series races in order to get all the benefits from the series.  Replace the word "charter" with "platinum member" and it seems like it's almost as if it's the same thing lol.

The way charters are different is they are limited in number and require an initial stake from the team, at least in NASCAR.  It's basically the same as a franchise.  You put your money in up front, you get the deal.  You then own the charter, and can sell it to someone else.  Of course, in doing so you now don't have your own charter.  So if High Limit is gifting charters, the charters have no initial value.  If Kahne/Rudeen/Marks/Whoever decides they don't want to run High Limit anymore, they can then sell their charter to a team who does want to race High Limit full time, the value of the charter would be whatever the new team is willing to pay.  One of the benefits of the charter (I am assuming, just like NASCAR) is that you are guaranteed a spot in the race.  The charter system was put into place to give team owners a value for their teams beyond the value of closing shop and selling out when they are done.  Eventually teams will need to purchase an existing High Limit charter to run with the series, how many teams will be willing to do that?

I can't wait to see all these fans who pee and moan about the WoO provisional system, the WoO Platinum Member system, etc. see that the charter system is likely going to mean unlimited provisionals for High Limit charter teams and therefore the series not allowing a local team an equal opportunity to compete for a starting spot the way the WoO does. It'll be like when the IRL only allowed CART teams to compete for a few spots at Indy and locked in all the IRL teams.  Also basically the same restrictions on outside races (outside of the big crown jewels like Eldora and Knoxville, because High Limit knows that telling teams they can't race those big money big prestige races would be a deal breaker).  

That's what my look into the crystal ball says, I guess we'll see in a few years.

I personally think  HL has the edge this time over WoO.  Sure WoO is keeping their four major events  (Five if you count Charlotte)

The HL allows for more racing if they want too,  But also may keep some from having Burnout and who says some of their events won't eventually become as big as Kings Royal or Knox?    HL also has a huge edge on subscribers to streaming.  If they can get the advertisers to go with it.  Then I think the sky's the limit.

I've been there for the USA and NST years.    The Best hit the big races anyway and so will the crossover be here.

There's a huge benifit to having some down time.    You listen to some of these drivers and it's like.  "I didn't get to even know my kid till they were grown", "I was on the road 260 days a year".

I personally think  HL has the edge this time over WoO.  Sure WoO is keeping their four major events  (Five if you count Charlotte)

The HL allows for more racing if they want too,  But also may keep some from having Burnout and who says some of their events won't eventually become as big as Kings Royal or Knox?    HL also has a huge edge on subscribers to streaming.  If they can get the advertisers to go with it.  Then I think the sky's the limit.

I've been there for the USA and NST years.    The Best hit the big races anyway and so will the crossover be here.

There's a huge benifit to having some down time.    You listen to some of these drivers and it's like.  "I didn't get to even know my kid till they were grown", "I was on the road 260 days a year".

The KR and the Kville Nats are the biggest events  because nothing and nobody has built anything to compare. Some are working toward huge events, yes but they were doing that before the HL. I don't think the HL will be the catalyst that vaults any existing large event over the top to compete with either WOO jewel. And the events that even get into the same convo are already locked into the WoO schedule.  I'm sure the HL will mine a few jewels out of the quarry but it will take more time than the bros in law have energy for. 
but bigger  and better events should come In time. 

I don't think it's fair to call the Knoxville Nationals a WoO crown jewel. The Nationals predate the WoO by about 15 years. It's not really even a WoO race as such, WoO gives their drivers show up points, but it is Knoxville's race program and Knoxville's crown jewel.

True. I was kind of thinking that as I typed. and this shows that HL isn't gonna make anything comparable.