Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

in another thread, I voiced displeasure with Dirt Vision last week and got the immediate "other side of the story", that I expected...  I especially enjoyed the one referring to Speed Sports News, because I used to do the same thing.. (Mine usually came on Thursday)..   But there may be, or not, another point to be made.   How many of us are there in today's world.  By "That" I mean internet fans.  We don't buy tickets, parking spots, hot dogs or beer... But we're here...   the cost seems to be about 40 a month so if WOO does 2 races a weekend, we are in for 5 bucks.    Not equal to the guy in the stands by any means, but hey , as I said,  we're here. and you can sell our seat over and over....  So anyone ..   what's the population of our world ?  That thing that used to be called ratings before "hits and likes took over...  Because we may have more clout than we know... or we may just be like the souvenir trailer, just part of the circus..   was it 100k watching at 5 bucks each?    if so maybe we could ask for an upgrade in seating or something...suppose it was more... what are we worth ?????

I'm not exactly sure what your point is.  Internet fans are akin for example to an NFL fan who watches their favorite team on TV and goes to an occasional game often not even one per season.  My neighbor on the surface is a TV Vikings fan but the connection goes deeper.  He was a placekicker in college and tried out with the Vikings as a walk on.  Does that make him a bigger fan than me who watched their first ever game in 1961 and has followed them ever since?

I was one of those kids in the early 60's who waited for NSSN to show up in the mail and picked up every paper I could get my hands on.  I was also the kid who's father would take him to a cousins garage to watch them work on a race car that was driven by a future Sprint Car HOF driver.  

Some of us this season are "internet fans" because we are considered high risk and want to avoid crowds.  Some of us who travel alone to races and are getting up in years find that carrying a couple PPV channels beats making those late night red-eye drives solo through deer country.  And some of us "internet fans" spent years running a local racing website and writing and taking photos for publications.  In other words, most of us watching from home have been there and done that for decades and now the technology and an affordable price point have made it possible to follow the sport when we aren't able to chase races.  

I dont think of one fan as superior or more of a fan than the next person if that is what you're implying.  If there was such a thing as a super fan it would likely be someone who drove at one time and became a fan after hanging up their helmet.  The promoters and PPV services welcome our money whether it's our first race or we've been going for 60 plus years.  

Actually internet fan is more like an all compatible devices fan.  If someone didn't know I was streaming from a website it would look like any other TV channel.  At this point I can't imagine PPV making many new fans who never go to live races like pro sports does with their network broadcasts on over the air stations.  I'd venture a guess that subscribers are from the dirt track fan ranks simply adding another option to keep up with the sport.

I'm still not sure what your point is but it comes across like you are saying that fans who attend races live have a bigger stake and bigger voice in the sport.  PPV is how a lot of car owners keep up with their traveling racing teams so in some cases there are PPV viewers who have a bigger stake in the sport than most of the people in the stands.

Again, I apologise if I missed your point but I think personally that this is a great time to be a racing fan with the PPV coming of age and the great racing we are seeing so far this season.  I might dust off the camera and do a night in the infield before the end of the year but I'm enjoying being an "internet fan" at this stage of my life.  It sure as hell beats hours and hours of windshield time and late night travel every weekend.  

Stan Meissner

I'd say being an internet fan overall is a good thing.   From a standpoint of just WoO races, I would normally see six of them a year.   Four of those would be the Nationals since I've been driving up there for that the last several years and plan to continue doing so.   The other two nights is when they visit Devils Bowl, but rain has traditionally interfered with that.   As of this year the Devils Bowl race had been reduced to one night, so that would have put me at 5 this year assuming they have the Nationals and WoO makes up the DB race.    I do have plans to see them at other places in Texas and possibly Oklahoma.      That being said I doubt I would ever travel to Jackson, Minnesota or Haubstadt, Indiana to see them.   The fact that I'll be spending money to watch it on DirtVision is a positive thing.   I wouldn't be seeing these races otherwise and certainly wouldn't have been able to before livestreaming.   I can't see how that's a bad thing.   

Stan.. my point was this...  When fans in the stands stand up and boo or complain... I think we all know it gets heard. and I think we agree that it should...   If you, as I do, pay your 40 a month for the PPV, I think we also quality as fans. Yet we have no voice other than places like here.  Short of that we either pay or don't pay.   I put our value at 5 bucks a race just as an estimate (monthlly cost of service divided by number of races) and I have absolutely no idea what the size of the audience is..  CBS showing the race last week seemed like a really big deal to everyone in WOO... and I'm sure it was... But to accomadate them, they pretty much chopped our boadcast to bits... To say nothing of the people in the stands that watched the water truck 500 for an hour or so waiting for the CBS broadcast.  In other words, they took from Peter to pay Paul.   I agree 100% that this is way better that the past...  I didn't have to chose between Lincoln or Port Royal, I watched them both... I'm even getting up to date on Marysville Ca for gods sake and thats a long ways from my home in Maryland. I think the point is.... if there are say, 50,000 of us paying and watching regularly, then we are bringing 250k to every race and maybe should be treated like we count... I really enjoy the feeling of sitting in the stands I get on dirt vision and Flo, simply put it makes me feel at home. But if that guess of 50,000 is even close, then we are getting short changed and it shouldn't take much to get them to notice that...     Anyone have a guess on the size of a typical WOO or All star PPV audience ?  My point, I believe, is that as the world changes so does the audience and they need to adjust... Otherwise they become like NASCAR and run off all their old fans, chasing new ones.....

Your question reminds me of a quote that one of my Marketing Professor had at the bottom of each of his slides during lectures. I forget who actually said it but it was, "I know that half my advertising is wasted, I just don't know what half." Meaning you are going to waste money and not every dollar you spend advertising is going to gurantee you business, but at the same time you have to do it in order to get business. I think that is the case here where you really cannot measure the worth of each individuals opinion on matters and it is a balancing act. Whether it be ratings, views, likes, subscribers, or ticket sales, it is all used while presenting to sponsors as far as reach but as always must be taken with a grain of salt.

This forum for instance can be a place where it is just a pile on affect of negative opinions about the sport and sanctioning bodies. Hell I even got a chuckle for years when many consistently predicted the death of the Outlaws each year but yet you go to a race and it seemed like it would be a little more crowded than the previous year. Or a race at a track would suck but yet the attendance at the next race at the facility would increase again. Basically what I mean is people can write comments on social media and forums but, at the end of the day if the bottom line profit number is increasing then the ones voicing displeasure can turn into a loud vocal minority very quickly. It's not that anyone will not listen or change but, most likely they will take into consideration the attendance numbers of the show, and the following ones, and subscribers a little bit more. You may dislike a video on youtube but if same video has 2000 likes against 5dislikes, I think they will view it as a success. If 100,000 people watched it may only have been $5 each but that is also a 100,000ppl watching that a sponsor knows can see their product without having to pay for $1M 30sec tv spot and go off a somewhat primative rating system. Here, they can tell you we KNOW this is how many saw your spot. I don't think you will be able to ask for seat upgrades anytime soon unless they are available because the past couple of years the tickets have all been bought up by people attending the races

Are you retired yet?

When you have time, ROAD TRIP! Its fun

For the most part you'll see me complaining about things that are mostly my fault or pertain to my personal circumstances.  I screwed up my cancellation, my van is getting to be POS and I don't trust driving it to Knoxville and things along those lines.  I did get a bit riled about an All Star/IRA race that ended up not being broadcast on Floracing and was instead on Speed Shift but now that gripe is a moot point seeing as Floracing bought out the Speed Shift assets and their content will be migrating to Flo.  In other words if I'd just have been patient I'd have gotten my way eventually and saved some hurt feelings along the way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that after years of writing and photography I am still on the radar of some people the average fan isn't ever going to hear from no matter what they post.  With that in mind I am trying to reel in my public comments (always truthful and from the heart but not always popular with those involved) and avoid confrontations.  I won't say any names but a couple times this year already I have gotten chastised in private messages from people directly involved in some very big shows for comments I made online.  I pointed out that their pinpointing a specific fan for their comments would be akin to the owner of the Vikings messaging me for what I said on a Vikings discussion forum.  In other words, I'm a nobody and the Vikings don't give a damn, why should anyone involved with dirt track racing care about my comments?  I'm just a fan now watching from home and I want to keep a low profile.  I don't think that higher ups with the tracks and series should be wasting their time paying attention to me but apparently some thought they should drop everything and chew me out in the middle of big events. 

Personally I am content watching from home and maybe going to a live event later this season depending on what happens with the virus by September.  Now I am a Sprint Car and dirt track fan the same as I am a Vikings and Twins fan, on TV from a distance and every now and then I'll attend a game or in this case a race.  I don't care if people don't pay attention to my posts and opinions because I managed to get some very important people in racing upset with me while laying under a blanket in my recliner.  I'd just as soon blend into the woodwork and not have to deal with that kind of thing so unlike you I hope nobody is paying attention to my opinions. 

Stan Meissner

I'm hoping to retire in 5 years or so, but hopefully will get some road trips in before that.   Eldora is a big one on my bucket list.