Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The WoO and Knoxville have canceled both nights scheduled races due to predicted wind chills below freezing.

Sounds like a half intelligent business decision-----despite the "back in my day 4 feet of snow both ways" dumbasses all over social media pretending it should still be held because it would have been in the 1970's..................

April races are tough. Sometimes they hit a homerun if temps are in the 70/80 but usually m

oney losers.

There are WoO shows at the Grove and Port this year.  So no, that would not be in the WoO's best interest.  (that is the point of the Platinum package) 

That aside, it would make a lot more sense for the Platinum member to travel to 34 Raceway in Burlington, IA on Tuesday night and use one of their 4 "passes" since it's a close drive to Granite City.  PA would make almost no financial sense at all.  

In fairness Knoxville probably still would have ran in the 70s with this weather

No one wants my opinion but here it is anyhow. Friday won't be all that far from average temps for mid April. Saturday looks rough but move up the start time then. Dirtvision would keep many away and so financially it doesn't make sense. But for die hard s like me it sucks cause I would have been there. I don't understand scheduling the WoO in April in Iowa... horrible idea to me. If it were regular weekly racing I'm guessing they would have just had it so I'm screwed out of a night. Ok that's a lot of rambling but to sum it up don't schedule in April unless your willing to risk the cold. If it's fit you have to bite that bullet for the fans and run in my opinion because you committed to it. 

I understand the decision from a financial standpoint. My plan was if weather was good I would go up on Saturday to watch. If weather was cold stay home and watch from the comfort of my recliner. Pretty sure knoxville makes more with me sitting in the stands rather at home watching.

Is there anyone out there (besides me) that was at the Sunday April 29th, 1990 WoO event at Knoxville that was originally supposed to be the normal Fri/Sat show?

The weather that day permanently stuck in my memory as is was figuratively and literally snowmobiling weather.

Wnds out of the north at 30mph, occasional sleet and temps in the low 30's.

My friend Patty smoked a lot and we put a blanket (and maybe 2) completely over us so she could light up - and the wind was still so strong she couldn't hardly get a cigarette lit (which was fine by me).

But the best part of it, out of all of that, was the driving clinic Doug Wolfgang put on driving the #8 Payless/Williams car and blistered the field in the A-feature.

There were literally 38 people in the stands that saw the feature race that day.

From that point on, I don't think Knoxville ever scheduled a race like that when it was going to be that flipping aweful outside. And I don't blame them. This weekend's forecast looks similar...race time temps in the 30's and windy.

There are still some racing fans that are willing to endure conditions like that, but very few, which I've always thought was strange considering how some of the stick-and-ball folk are willing to sit outside and watch that regardless of the weather.

I know we've debated this in the past but I'm not following your logic here.  From what I understood of your point before was you didn't like the idea that another track could piggy back off of a WOO race (Intentionally scheduling a big money race close to a WOO race the night after) which I get.  But now you're saying that because they have other WOO races scheduled at that track it's not in their best interest?  So are you afraid that in the future race tracks will schedule big money races halfway across the country hoping they get a WOO rainout?  That seems like a bit of a stretch to me.  I'm just not sure where you're coming from here.

As for this weekend this seems like a perfect decision for everyone involved.  These races are expensive to put on and knowing the attendance won't be good, I get why they would want to cancel.  I also like that they gave teams plenty of notice on this so they don't tow all the way there to watch it rain or snow or whatever it's going to do.  But I still don't understand why the WOO would care if they wanted to spend that time at another race halfway across the country.  Although I can't figure out why the teams would want to do that either.

Exactly! He would say: let's have more snow, why only a cold wind?

My stance has ALWAYS been that if a driver wants to sign the Platinum deal, and reap the rewards from such a deal, it should essentially be a noncompete clause.  I've never said it should be only for races where they could piggy back off of the WoO race.  

But, since you brought it up, this 10 day stretch was going to be the perfect example of why the WoO has the Platinum deal.  The Outlaws were scheduled for Knoxville this weekend, and then Granite City next weekend.  In between, the High Limit series is at 34 Raceway on Tuesday night.  If there was beautiful weather for all 10 days, the closest race for me is 34 Raceway, and that's the race I would have attended if all of the Outlaws were going to use one of their 4 passes---which I'm assuming they would.  Sorry if no one gets this, but it's HORRIBLE for business for the WoO to have this situation.  If I want to see a WoO quality show, I have to travel to Knoxville (4 hours away) or Granite City (5 hours away) on a normal year.  However, all residents who live between these 2 tracks, now have the option of seeing a WoO quality show at 34 Raceway.  Only a complete idiot would think this would be good for business for Knoxville, Granite City, or the WoO.  It would without a doubt, cut down on attendance at the weekend events.  There are around 400,000 people alone in the Quad Cities, which is MUCH closer to 34 Raceway than either of the other 2 tracks.  

So, to be clear, I would LOVE a world where we had all of these choices to see these drivers.  However, only a buffoon would not understand why this is bad for business for the Outlaws and in the long run, would hurt sprint car racing's nationals exposure more than it helps it.  I'll go even farther and say, I support the Outlaws original formula to not allow drivers to race an event without written permission ANYWHERE in the US.  

I admit to owning a snowmobile suit and insulated boots.  The only time they get used anymore is when I have to clear snow out of the driveway.  I've been to a few cold weather races and it sucks.  One year at the Princeton Nationals is was cold and windy.  I was in the infield taking photos and whenever no cars were on track I'd use the front stretch signs as a wind break.  There were other similar experiences, this is Minnesota and tracks have canceled every event so far this "spring". 
 

Tracks need a crowd, families with kids and groups of people, not just that couple dozen hard core fans that would sit through Armageddon just to see a race.  There are baseball fans like that up here as well who have to sit through the early season games.  I froze at a Twins game one year, not fun in the top row with nothing to stop the wind.  This time of year it's hit or miss, give it a few weeks and we'll be sweating after sundown because it's too hot.  We a couple days in the 80's last week and snow flurries all day today.  

Stan Meissner

I raced oval and some crosscountry  snowmobile races. There were some sprint car racers Stacy Redmond was one but also Dick Trickle stock cars Yvonne Duhomel bikes and Giles Villenue F-1 cars and  we raced in very cold weather no matter what.It was -56 below chill factor in Winnepeg in 1975. The fans thought nothing of it because it was winter and dressed accordingly. But anything below 50 deg starting in late April May the fans will not show up and without fans in the stands to buy concessions and admission it doesnt work to take the back gate money to pay expenses. No racetrack wants to cancel due to weather but thats the risk in dirt track racing. Nothing worse than a cancelation after hot laps or rainshower not expected 1 hour before when everyone is there ready to go.It can cost several thousand fo cancel once hot laps have started for insurance and food that cant be held over. Being a general manager not as easy as it looks.

Can't say I'm not disappointed!! Camper's set up, Golf cart & trailer was hooked to the truck and supplies were all loaded up.. Turn key ready to head to Knoxville last night! Expected to be sitting in Manny's Diner right about now eating a Meat lovers Omelot! Instead I'm at work for the next 2 days!  

September is a beautiful time of the year in Knoxville. 

Well, I think since it is not the 1990s what did or would have happened then is irrelevant.  It is 2023 and racetracks need to make money. A WoO show is expensive and I doubt just the hardcore fans would be enough to make the track a profit. In my younger days I would sit in freezing weather to watch races, but as I get older that is harder on my body & takes longer to heal from. So I believe they did the right thing for them. And, yes they do bring in a lot of money at the Nationals but that is no reason to expect Knoxville to happily lose money on their other races. And I have to wonder how many teams would really want to run their expensive engines in weather that cold, especially lower dollar teams with only 1 or 2 engines to make it through the entire season.

I thought I was clear but I guess it wasn't completely spelled out for you, so let me try again.  I was NOT talking about 34 Raceway.  The original queston was about them racing at Williams Grove and Port Royal.  Nobody brought up 34 Raceway but you.  In your earlier response you said "There are WoO shows at the Grove and Port this year.  So no, that would not be in the WoO's best interest".  That is what I was questioning your logic about.  I'm not going to rewrite everything I did in my last post so if you care to answer, understand that statement from you is what I was questioning.

About the rest of your response.  You say "If there was beautiful weather", there isn't beautiful weather, that's the whole reason for this thread, it's literally in the title of it.  Also nobody was talking about the High Limit race next Tuesday but if you want to go there, not everyone lives where you live and thinks like you do for instance if I lived where you did I would go to one of the WOO shows, why?  They're on Saturday night, I don't have to be up the next day.  However on a Wednesday morning I need to be to work by 7 so there's no way, I'm driving 2 hours on a Tuesday night to go see a sprint car race, I like to be in bed by 10 during the week.  This is an unprecedented situation so there's no way you can say "It would without a doubt, cut down on attendance at the weekend events."  Maybe it will, maybe it won't make any difference at all, NOBODY knows.

The other thing I don't understand of your logic is when you say "However, only a buffoon would not understand why this is bad for business for the Outlaws and in the long run, would hurt sprint car racing's nationals exposure more than it helps it."  You're saying that having sprint car teams not at the track is good for long term national exposure of the sport?  How?  Are they broadcasting something from their shop?

Like I stated before I think you and I have a different idea on what is and isn't competition to the WOO.  I think on a night that's been cancelled due to weather that a race halfway across the country isn't competing with the WOO.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, that wasn't my intention.

I nearly froze to death one year at the Jackson Nationals, in July!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post I'm not sure why you assume 'all of the Outlaws were going to use one of their 4 passes' this coming Tuesday at 34 Raceway. 

Consider this: 

• 34 Raceway is the 'standard' $23,000 to win show
• Sweet, Macedo, Gravel, Schatz, Scelzi, Kahne, Schuhart, Haudenschild, Bayston all used their 1st one at Lakeside for a 50k to win show (only Bill Rose, Zearfoss, Allen, McFadden, Gass and Price did not)
• So that leaves most of the heavy hitters with three passes remaining, not four

Non-WoO shows that need to be factored in: 

• Eldora Million during Kings Royal... they're all running that
• Lernerville in September is between when the Outlaws are coming from Sharon going to the Grove for the National Open and it's a 50k to win.. gotta think most will hit that

So that leaves really one other freebie: 

• Osky Front Row Challenge was $21k to win last year and they're in the neighborhood - do they skip that? 
• Cappy - do they forego the Nationals tune up? 

I'd be surprised to see any WoO back at High Limit until Lernerville, myself. 

The free passes may not need to be used for the Cappt cuz it may be one they get permission for. Anybody know if the 4 free passes are above and beyond the traditional allowances from last years or did the past allowances get removed to limit 4 to an actual 4 only 

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!