HoseHeads.com | HoseHeads Classifieds | Racer's Auction
Home | Register | Contact | Verify Email FAQ |
Blogs | Photo Gallery | Press Release | Results | RacersAuction.com | HoseheadsClassifieds.com
Hoosier Tire Great Plains | Hoosier Mid Atlantic | Racing Warehouse | Performance Race Parts | Xtreme Race Parts

Welcome Guest. Already registered? Please Login

 

Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Topic: Engine costs
Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
First | Previous | Next | Last Reply 1 to 20 of 48
RodinCanada
MyWebsite
May 07, 2022 at 09:06:00 PM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 1720
Reply

I am listening to Kville tonight.

Wondering what an engines costs for the 360s and the 305s?


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

hardon
May 08, 2022 at 12:54:50 AM
Joined: 02/20/2005
Posts: 485
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on May 07 2022 at 09:06:00 PM

I am listening to Kville tonight.

Wondering what an engines costs for the 360s and the 305s?



Well just a few years ago I had heard you could spend $30,000 on a racesaver 305 but you didn't have to.  I don't know what that means but I think it's safe to say the 305 class is not as economical as everyone was hoping.  



Shortie12
MyWebsite
May 08, 2022 at 07:39:23 AM
Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 775
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: hardon on May 08 2022 at 12:54:50 AM

Well just a few years ago I had heard you could spend $30,000 on a racesaver 305 but you didn't have to.  I don't know what that means but I think it's safe to say the 305 class is not as economical as everyone was hoping.  



The Pro Sprints at Knoxville have CT 525 6.2 litre engine all bought from Pace Engineering which are part of Chevrolet performance crate motors.All are sealed and produce over 500 H.P. and have a price complete of around $16K+.  They are not a 305 IMCA motor that can be built from $3K to some $30K.Imca is big in some regions and do best on shorter tracks.Pace and Chevrolet are sponsors of the class at Knoxville but the track is a little to long but still a feeder series .Car count seems to be under 20 and they are basically Knoxville only cars. Still only 1+ second slower than 360 and a couple off 410s which doesnt sound like much . The 360s started out basically at Knoxville with 2 barrel carb steel wheels small wings and used tires off 410s.  This lasted until the racers themselves decided  they wanted to spend more money and it evolved into the 410 class with 50 cubic inches less and motors that produce 700+ H.P. and are still about 1+ second slower. A good 360 can cost about same as 410 as the heads that were ASCS unaltered can now be maxed out.  The days of going to your local Chevy dealer and buying a 4 bolt corvette motor for $500 and putting better heads cam and injection and racing at Knoxville and if it blew up getting warranty probably only once are gone!



nancespeedequipment1n
May 08, 2022 at 12:32:45 PM
Joined: 09/21/2008
Posts: 705
Reply
This message was edited on May 08, 2022 at 12:34:33 PM by nancespeedequipment1n

A 360 you are looking at 45,000 dollars give or take.  Who builds it and what they put in it can take that price up or down.

 

 



linbob
May 08, 2022 at 08:08:51 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1649
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: nancespeedequipment1n on May 08 2022 at 12:32:45 PM

A 360 you are looking at 45,000 dollars give or take.  Who builds it and what they put in it can take that price up or down.

 

 



I think the Pace engine is a little higher than $16.000 since they  BEEFED UP LOWER END.  aLSO WITH pACE YOU GET EVERYTHING, EXHAUST, IGN, BOX BATTERY AND SO ON.  sTARTING PRICE ON 410 MOTORS BY sPEEDWAY IS $50,000.  i PROBABLY THINK THEY WOULD HAVE OPTIONS.  wITH NEW ENGINE DO YOU GET FEUL PUMP, BYPASSES AND IGN BOX?  tHOSE WOULD BE EXTRA IN SOME CASES.  a YEAR AGO i HEARD AVERAGE PRICE ON410 WAS $60,000 AND 360 AT $50.000.  i AM SURE PRICE HAS GONE UP THIS YEAR.  iT IS CRAZY. Please excuse my typing, to lazy to go back and fix it.



Dryslick Willie
May 09, 2022 at 02:52:23 PM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 2235
Reply

I'm curious whether any components or materials used in the engines are in shortage or hard to get because of the supply chain issues?



linbob
May 09, 2022 at 04:34:16 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1649
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Dryslick Willie on May 09 2022 at 02:52:23 PM

I'm curious whether any components or materials used in the engines are in shortage or hard to get because of the supply chain issues?



Yes, very much so.  Engine builders in Iowa say they have numerous engines they can not complete because of shortage of parts.  A week ago tire dealer ran out of tires at Knoxville



egras
May 09, 2022 at 06:00:38 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: hardon on May 08 2022 at 12:54:50 AM

Well just a few years ago I had heard you could spend $30,000 on a racesaver 305 but you didn't have to.  I don't know what that means but I think it's safe to say the 305 class is not as economical as everyone was hoping.  



Easy way to fix this with economy classes-----motor claim rule.  Done



hardon
May 10, 2022 at 12:19:11 AM
Joined: 02/20/2005
Posts: 485
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on May 09 2022 at 06:00:38 PM

Easy way to fix this with economy classes-----motor claim rule.  Done



In theory it's a great idea but it was around for the stock car classes years ago (and maybe still is?) but it didn't do what was intended.  From what I remember claims only happened if there was a pissing match between drivers.  Then I heard stories of people in claiming wars who would intentionally sabotage engines in certain ways because they knew it would get claimed anyway.  It's a great idea but like most rules somebody finds a loophole to it.  It certainly didn't stop people from spending more money on motors.



Shortie12
MyWebsite
May 10, 2022 at 06:26:16 AM
Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 775
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on May 09 2022 at 06:00:38 PM

Easy way to fix this with economy classes-----motor claim rule.  Done



Claims and exchanges are still part of IMCA. At the IMCA Nationals the top  finishers have their motors claimed by the track and are auctioned off to the racers. thats a prestigous race and the purse isnt big. You cant stop people from spending money no matter what class.



Murphy
May 10, 2022 at 07:36:37 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on May 09 2022 at 06:00:38 PM

Easy way to fix this with economy classes-----motor claim rule.  Done



The fist fight rule. It's done wonders for the quality of low-buck fender class racing.



egras
May 10, 2022 at 10:49:14 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on May 10 2022 at 07:36:37 AM

The fist fight rule. It's done wonders for the quality of low-buck fender class racing.



At my old home town track, it did what was intended multiple times.  We had big budget pro-stock racers who moved to late models because they kept getting their motors claimed.  That was the entire point of the rule.  At the time, we had guys with $20,000 motors running against guys with $1000 motors.  The point of the class was $1000 motors.  If the point of the 305 class is budget, there needs to be a deterent for running a motor that is WAY out of bounds.  Claim rule is that deterent.  Period.  It doesn't matter who's feelings get hurt if the intent is to stop the escalation of costs.  



linbob
May 10, 2022 at 12:04:20 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1649
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on May 09 2022 at 06:00:38 PM

Easy way to fix this with economy classes-----motor claim rule.  Done



This is a true story.  Car owner and person that helped him told same story.  Winning car was to have motor tore down.  It was getting late at night so they locked up car in a building with plans to tear down motor next day.  Car owner got into building late that night.  They pulled the non legal engine and replaced it with a blown engine,  Never got caught.



egras
May 10, 2022 at 06:33:29 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: linbob on May 10 2022 at 12:04:20 PM

This is a true story.  Car owner and person that helped him told same story.  Winning car was to have motor tore down.  It was getting late at night so they locked up car in a building with plans to tear down motor next day.  Car owner got into building late that night.  They pulled the non legal engine and replaced it with a blown engine,  Never got caught.



Sounds like criminal tresspassing to me and a very isolated incident in the modern racing world. 

 

I was talking about a motor claim, not a motor teardown or check.  If you are unfamiliar with a motor claim, the sanctioning body:

1.  Determines where they want the cost of a motor to be----say $10,000 for example.  The target cost becomes the claim price---in this case, $10,000

2.  Any driver that finishes in the top-10, can claim the motor of the podium finishers for the claim price of $10,000

3.  The podium finisher must agree or forfeit all points and money for the night

4.  If the podium finisher wants to keep money and points, he or she swaps motors with the claimer THAT NIGHT and money is exchanged.  There is no locking in a shed.  No waiting until tomorrow.  It talkes place right there with the officials watching.  

5.  People stop showing up in economy class races with $50,000 motors

 



oswald
May 10, 2022 at 11:21:38 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply

Driver from my hometown racing IMCA mod sold at least 9 engines for $300 that bhe had over $900 in because he wanted to win track title & had the money to do it. Claims do not work. Those with money will spend it and you can not stop them. That is why some racesaver teams will buy a $20000 engine.



Dryslick Willie
May 11, 2022 at 05:38:51 AM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 2235
Reply

I have know quite a few guys who have switched to a non-IMCA track to get away from the claim rule.   The guy that used to build my brother's modified engines used to get claimed nearly every week.   It wasn't because he was winning every week, but just because he owned a machine shop.    He had his own way of dealing with that.   He bored all of the cylinders to a different diameter, then ground the numbers off the top of the pistons.  He also bored at least one cylinder to .080 to make sure that they couldn't rebuild it.   He also welded up the timing mark, ground it flat, then repainted the balancer.  He added a timing mark on the balancer, but only he knew that it was several degrees off.    To top it all off, he then stamped "f--- you" on the top of all the pistons.



RodinCanada
MyWebsite
May 11, 2022 at 07:42:40 AM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 1720
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on May 10 2022 at 11:21:38 PM

Driver from my hometown racing IMCA mod sold at least 9 engines for $300 that bhe had over $900 in because he wanted to win track title & had the money to do it. Claims do not work. Those with money will spend it and you can not stop them. That is why some racesaver teams will buy a $20000 engine.



Depends how you look at it. If the $900 engine was making him a winner you now have 4 teams with the winning engine for the budget price. If he wants to donate good engines to the lower dollar teams so be it. Soon everyone will have the  better engine and everyone more competetive and they low dollar guess still have their money.


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

Keyboard Jockey
May 11, 2022 at 08:42:50 AM
Joined: 04/16/2014
Posts: 430
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on May 11 2022 at 07:42:40 AM

Depends how you look at it. If the $900 engine was making him a winner you now have 4 teams with the winning engine for the budget price. If he wants to donate good engines to the lower dollar teams so be it. Soon everyone will have the  better engine and everyone more competetive and they low dollar guess still have their money.



Wishfull thinking. Sprint car racing is dollars, the days of garage built engines buy a bunch of guys after work are over. There are guys that can build their own engines but if you think they are using inexpensive parts to do so and have any amount of competitiveness thats simply not the case. The first brand new 360 I bought was in 2012 and it was $38,000 the next one $42,000 and the last one $55,000. A 410 add 10-15K to those numbers. 

Parts shortages... 2020 was pistons, last year was valve springs, this year is rocker arms, this is only what I'm seeing im sure others are experiencing other issue. The "just in time" manufacturing montra that for the most part worked well prior to 2020 is really kicking teams butts right now. 



egras
May 11, 2022 at 10:43:28 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on May 11 2022 at 07:42:40 AM

Depends how you look at it. If the $900 engine was making him a winner you now have 4 teams with the winning engine for the budget price. If he wants to donate good engines to the lower dollar teams so be it. Soon everyone will have the  better engine and everyone more competetive and they low dollar guess still have their money.



I was thinking the same.......................

 

And, BTW everyone, I'm not a fan of the claim rule.  However, the topic was how to keep the big dollar motors from screwing up a budget class.  Claim rule, claim rule, claim rule.  I'm a fan of capitalism myself so if it's within the rules, it's legal, so I wouldn't race in a class with this rule in place----because it should be my right to spend as much as I want-----which is why the rule does work----because I wouldn't take my big motor and race there.  Everyone says it doesn't work----I've seen it work multiple times.  

So, I don't like the rule, but it is truly the only way to keep a budget class, a budget class-----if that is the intent.  



Keyboard Jockey
May 11, 2022 at 12:09:54 PM
Joined: 04/16/2014
Posts: 430
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on May 11 2022 at 10:43:28 AM

I was thinking the same.......................

 

And, BTW everyone, I'm not a fan of the claim rule.  However, the topic was how to keep the big dollar motors from screwing up a budget class.  Claim rule, claim rule, claim rule.  I'm a fan of capitalism myself so if it's within the rules, it's legal, so I wouldn't race in a class with this rule in place----because it should be my right to spend as much as I want-----which is why the rule does work----because I wouldn't take my big motor and race there.  Everyone says it doesn't work----I've seen it work multiple times.  

So, I don't like the rule, but it is truly the only way to keep a budget class, a budget class-----if that is the intent.  



I think the real conversation is what is a budget class and what in not. If the intent is made prior to the rules being created that it's a budget class and the claim rule is clearly stated then have at it, everyone knew that rule coming in. Sprint cars are not budget race cars, period. Guy's that put cars together with questionable parts to save a buck is not safe. I will argue that till the day I die. Again as I mentioned in my pervious post there are ways to save some money and use safe components even used ones but "cheap" sprint cars are dangerous. 

 



First | Previous | Next | Last Reply 1 to 20 of 48


Post Reply
You must be logged in to Post a Message.
Not a member register Here.
Already registered? Please Login




 

If you have a website and would like to set up a forum here at HoseHeadForums.com
please contact us by using the contact link at the top of the page.

© 2024 HoseHeadForums.com Privacy Policy