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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Topic: What's Your Preferred Format
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texdel
January 01, 2022 at 09:22:30 AM
Joined: 05/29/2007
Posts: 326
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Happy New Year everyone.

Wanted to start the year off with a question for all of you.

What's your preferred format for race lineups?

Pill Draw - Passing Points

Pill Draw - Time Trials - Heat Invert (2, 4, ,6 or 8) 

Pill Draw - Time Trials - Straight Up

Any other input on a different format?

JP



RodinCanada
MyWebsite
January 01, 2022 at 10:08:01 AM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 1720
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I dont totally understand the Ascoc format because I watch way more WoO but I like the fact that the fast time is guaranteed a dash spot so there is motivation to time fast. The invert seems to make it more exciting. I also think qualifying against your own heat makes sense but is a bit unfair if the track changes lots from the start to finish of TTs. But I guess that is necessary when the heats are picked from a hat.

I will only compare the 2 and I prefer Ascoc.


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

armyduke
January 01, 2022 at 11:26:23 AM
Joined: 08/12/2005
Posts: 784
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All Star format is great.  You only qualify against the people in your heat, so track conditions don't play a factor on making the invert.  Invert 4.  Win heat or be quick time from your heat that transfers (and not the winner of the heat) to make the dash(es).   Fairest format of all of them by far.  



dsc1600
January 01, 2022 at 01:11:04 PM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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Reply to:
Posted By: armyduke on January 01 2022 at 11:26:23 AM

All Star format is great.  You only qualify against the people in your heat, so track conditions don't play a factor on making the invert.  Invert 4.  Win heat or be quick time from your heat that transfers (and not the winner of the heat) to make the dash(es).   Fairest format of all of them by far.  



I don't like how many cars make dashes with the All Stars. There should never be half the A main settled by the dash. 

The WoO format is the fairest and best to run a series with, up until again the dash where the fastest guy could start 8th. 

I wish there would be more deviation from the standard format as a fan, but only at tracks like Knoxville and Eldora where you can actually pass. 



Charles Nungester
January 01, 2022 at 01:55:02 PM
Joined: 06/01/2014
Posts: 255
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USAC's period.  the only thing I'd change is if there's over 36 cars, Id add a fifth heat and take three.



BStrawser26
January 02, 2022 at 06:58:30 PM
Joined: 09/12/2013
Posts: 2588
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Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on January 01 2022 at 01:11:04 PM

I don't like how many cars make dashes with the All Stars. There should never be half the A main settled by the dash. 

The WoO format is the fairest and best to run a series with, up until again the dash where the fastest guy could start 8th. 

I wish there would be more deviation from the standard format as a fan, but only at tracks like Knoxville and Eldora where you can actually pass. 



I never understood why you would start the fastest car on the pole of a heat.  WOO has the worst format between them and the all stars.

The Kings Royal and the Nationals have the best format  by far.  You have to fly to qualify.


Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Nick14
January 02, 2022 at 08:17:52 PM
Joined: 06/04/2012
Posts: 1734
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Outlaw format for me. I don't care how heat races go, I care about the feature and the features for the outlaws hardly ever disappoint.



RodinCanada
MyWebsite
January 02, 2022 at 10:07:30 PM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 1720
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Reply to:
Posted By: Charles Nungester on January 01 2022 at 01:55:02 PM

USAC's period.  the only thing I'd change is if there's over 36 cars, Id add a fifth heat and take three.



In a nut shell what is the USAC format?


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

beezr2002
January 03, 2022 at 09:01:23 AM
Joined: 04/21/2017
Posts: 1116
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on January 02 2022 at 10:07:30 PM

In a nut shell what is the USAC format?



They invert 6 cars for the heat races from TTs. usually have to finish in the top 3-5 to make the A. 22 car field.



dsc1600
January 03, 2022 at 09:13:26 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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Reply to:
Posted By: BStrawser26 on January 02 2022 at 06:58:30 PM

I never understood why you would start the fastest car on the pole of a heat.  WOO has the worst format between them and the all stars.

The Kings Royal and the Nationals have the best format  by far.  You have to fly to qualify.



You can't possibly have a Kings Royal or Knoxville format every night, or at a track like WIlliams Grove or Lincoln, where it's one lane in the heats.

At a track like Port Royal, which is superior in every way, including heat racing, you might be able to get away with it. But few tracks are as good as Port Royal, but I know I'm preaching to the choir here. 



BStrawser26
January 03, 2022 at 09:30:35 AM
Joined: 09/12/2013
Posts: 2588
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This message was edited on January 03, 2022 at 09:32:44 AM by BStrawser26
Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on January 03 2022 at 09:13:26 AM

You can't possibly have a Kings Royal or Knoxville format every night, or at a track like WIlliams Grove or Lincoln, where it's one lane in the heats.

At a track like Port Royal, which is superior in every way, including heat racing, you might be able to get away with it. But few tracks are as good as Port Royal, but I know I'm preaching to the choir here. 



I don't agree with anything you said with regards to the Port.  They have the worst prepared track in PA and probably the country. 


Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

dsc1600
January 03, 2022 at 09:49:14 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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Reply to:
Posted By: BStrawser26 on January 03 2022 at 09:30:35 AM

I don't agree with anything you said with regards to the Port.  They have the worst prepared track in PA and probably the country. 



Lol



RodinCanada
MyWebsite
January 03, 2022 at 11:05:20 AM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 1720
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Reply to:
Posted By: beezr2002 on January 03 2022 at 09:01:23 AM

They invert 6 cars for the heat races from TTs. usually have to finish in the top 3-5 to make the A. 22 car field.



What is the incentive to not sandbag for a better heat start position?


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

armyduke
January 03, 2022 at 11:31:09 AM
Joined: 08/12/2005
Posts: 784
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on January 03 2022 at 11:05:20 AM

What is the incentive to not sandbag for a better heat start position?



Only the heat winner and the fastest 5 qualifiers (depending on car count/how many heats they have) who transfer make the invert for the A Main I believe. 



revjimk
January 03, 2022 at 11:35:28 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7594
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on January 03 2022 at 11:05:20 AM

What is the incentive to not sandbag for a better heat start position?



Eveybody who qualifies thru the heats gets their time back for the feature. So you can finish 4th in your heat & start ahead of the winner if your TT is better.  

I was gonna continue, but I have to check, it gets confusing after that....

I'll search for the link...

 



dsc1600
January 03, 2022 at 11:36:43 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on January 03 2022 at 11:05:20 AM

What is the incentive to not sandbag for a better heat start position?



I'm pretty sure the top 6 in times that qualify through the heats start 1-6 in the A main. The heat winners start 7-9. Then the rest is by time. So you'd have to sandbag alot to get a front row heat spot and then have to win only to start behind the "fast cars" anyway. 

I don't mind this format for entertainment purposes, but I'm not sure it would work for winged 410 racing. 



revjimk
January 03, 2022 at 11:51:05 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7594
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Here's how the feature works, direct from their website: "Starting positions determined by qualifying time, 6 fastest at the front, with the 6 fastest qualifiers who transferred through their heat races inverted by their qualifying time in the first three rows, positions 1-6.  If a heat race winner is not in the top-6 inversion, that driver will line up directly behind the six-car invert, based on their qualifying time, followed by the balance of the field based on qualifying time. 22 starting cars (not including earned provisionals)."

The major flaw is that you can finish second in your heat & start behind a car in the feature that finished last in the heat but qualified better.

If you want to read the whole thing, go to USAC website, click on "Members/owners", scroll down to "entry forms" (???), click on Sprint cars.... they don't make it easy!



revjimk
January 03, 2022 at 11:54:46 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7594
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Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on January 03 2022 at 09:49:14 AM

Lol



Oh boy, that was too easy.... He went right for the bait & swallowed it whole ;)



revjimk
January 03, 2022 at 11:57:27 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7594
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Reply to:
Posted By: armyduke on January 03 2022 at 11:31:09 AM

Only the heat winner and the fastest 5 qualifiers (depending on car count/how many heats they have) who transfer make the invert for the A Main I believe. 



Heat winners start behind the 6 car invert if they're not top 6 qualifiers (who transferred....very confusing, I know)



beezr2002
January 03, 2022 at 12:01:43 PM
Joined: 04/21/2017
Posts: 1116
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Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on January 03 2022 at 11:36:43 AM

I'm pretty sure the top 6 in times that qualify through the heats start 1-6 in the A main. The heat winners start 7-9. Then the rest is by time. So you'd have to sandbag alot to get a front row heat spot and then have to win only to start behind the "fast cars" anyway. 

I don't mind this format for entertainment purposes, but I'm not sure it would work for winged 410 racing. 



The top 6 TT cars that qualify in their heat races are inverted for the feature. If you qualify on top you have to start 6th in the heat and feature. As far as sand bagging, its probably tough to do, but I have watched some drivers pinch their car down a little bit more in the turns than they normally would and end up on the front row of a heat. Starting up front is everything with or without a wing. The usac format prolly wouldn't work for the winged cars, hardly works for the non wing cars these days.



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