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May 26, 2022 at
02:16:18 AM
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12/11/2008
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791
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Reply to:
Posted By: hardon on May 25 2022 at 11:31:31 PM
Thanks for the response. Another stupid question or I should say several stupid questions. How many races before a rebuild or freshen today? I've heard 5 races, is that true? What exactly happens during a rebuild? I've heard the bottom end isn't touched, so is it just valve work or is it completely tore down to the block? How much does a rebuild cost assuming there's nothing else going? What happens if they're not rebuilt when the engine builders say they should be? Do they just not have as much power or is there a real danger in gernading the engine?
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The cheapest thing in racing is the ticket to be able to watch. Pit passes are higher as they really dont need the extra people sometimes in the way. I have been involved in racing for over 65 years and from remote controlled cars to 410 sprints the money wasnt the reason we did it as it has been worth every $ spent in memories. Winning comes with a price and hard work will go along way but good equiptment is key.
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May 26, 2022 at
01:53:08 PM
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09/29/2005
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You can still go 12 races, if everything checks out ok during maintenance you can go 15-16. Some teams go 8-10.
On an average rebuild it's rings, bearings, gaskets, and pistons. The whole engine comes apart, down to the bare block. The crank, rods, cam, and wrist pins get magnafluxed to check for cracks. The block gets a fresh hone job on the cylinders for the new pistons. The heads get freshened up as well. With the titanium valves with the DLC coating on it we usually go two rebuilds on the intakes. New exhaust valves every rebuild due to the exhaust Temps.
Average rebuild is in the ballpark of 9-$10,000.
Most engine builders can tell if there's a parts failure or if it was self inflicted.
Hope this helps
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May 26, 2022 at
04:36:34 PM
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Mr Wesmar I want to thank for all the information you provide.
And now I say we racers are STUPID. I can say that because I own and drive a race car , a winged 410.
How does it make any sense to pay the prices we do for motors that only last 250 to 350 miles till a rebuild. And we all buy too quality parts and still get 350 miles. Not anywhere else in this world would we put up with durability like that but as racers not a problem. If the owners of these teams ran there businesses the same as the teams they wouldn't have money for a race team. Lobar/Freddie Jr's owner wouldn't rebuild a bulldozer every 300 hrs and Middlewarth's chips wouldn't do the same with there delivery trucks. But own a race team and all common sense is gone. Somewhere in the past a person started rebuilding their motors sooner and got an advantage. Now everyone does it and all we are are poorer and all still the same when come race time. As Steve Kinser said one time on a TV race " I spent $10000 to lighten my car and my competition spent $10000 to lighten their car. You know what? We are still the same just $10000 poorer"
Touching on the same topic about costs. The racers aren't doing themselves any favors right now. The cost of tires , parts and diesel fuel has skyrocketed and guys are racing more now than ever. So when things get back to 'normal" . Why would Hoosier and other companies lower prices? Racers are showing what they will pay to race. Also there is no need to raise purses either because teams keep showing up. Case in point I found and article from 2003. Sharon WoO purse to win $10000, 2022 purse to win $10000. 19 years no change in winners share.
And yes my car is parked till hopefully things change.
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May 26, 2022 at
06:25:05 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: racer goin broke on May 26 2022 at 04:36:34 PM
Mr Wesmar I want to thank for all the information you provide.
And now I say we racers are STUPID. I can say that because I own and drive a race car , a winged 410.
How does it make any sense to pay the prices we do for motors that only last 250 to 350 miles till a rebuild. And we all buy too quality parts and still get 350 miles. Not anywhere else in this world would we put up with durability like that but as racers not a problem. If the owners of these teams ran there businesses the same as the teams they wouldn't have money for a race team. Lobar/Freddie Jr's owner wouldn't rebuild a bulldozer every 300 hrs and Middlewarth's chips wouldn't do the same with there delivery trucks. But own a race team and all common sense is gone. Somewhere in the past a person started rebuilding their motors sooner and got an advantage. Now everyone does it and all we are are poorer and all still the same when come race time. As Steve Kinser said one time on a TV race " I spent $10000 to lighten my car and my competition spent $10000 to lighten their car. You know what? We are still the same just $10000 poorer"
Touching on the same topic about costs. The racers aren't doing themselves any favors right now. The cost of tires , parts and diesel fuel has skyrocketed and guys are racing more now than ever. So when things get back to 'normal" . Why would Hoosier and other companies lower prices? Racers are showing what they will pay to race. Also there is no need to raise purses either because teams keep showing up. Case in point I found and article from 2003. Sharon WoO purse to win $10000, 2022 purse to win $10000. 19 years no change in winners share.
And yes my car is parked till hopefully things change.
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Could not agree with you more.
It's crazy for sure and crazy times as well.
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May 26, 2022 at
08:28:11 PM
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12/02/2004
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855
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Reply to:
Posted By: racer goin broke on May 26 2022 at 04:36:34 PM
Mr Wesmar I want to thank for all the information you provide.
And now I say we racers are STUPID. I can say that because I own and drive a race car , a winged 410.
How does it make any sense to pay the prices we do for motors that only last 250 to 350 miles till a rebuild. And we all buy too quality parts and still get 350 miles. Not anywhere else in this world would we put up with durability like that but as racers not a problem. If the owners of these teams ran there businesses the same as the teams they wouldn't have money for a race team. Lobar/Freddie Jr's owner wouldn't rebuild a bulldozer every 300 hrs and Middlewarth's chips wouldn't do the same with there delivery trucks. But own a race team and all common sense is gone. Somewhere in the past a person started rebuilding their motors sooner and got an advantage. Now everyone does it and all we are are poorer and all still the same when come race time. As Steve Kinser said one time on a TV race " I spent $10000 to lighten my car and my competition spent $10000 to lighten their car. You know what? We are still the same just $10000 poorer"
Touching on the same topic about costs. The racers aren't doing themselves any favors right now. The cost of tires , parts and diesel fuel has skyrocketed and guys are racing more now than ever. So when things get back to 'normal" . Why would Hoosier and other companies lower prices? Racers are showing what they will pay to race. Also there is no need to raise purses either because teams keep showing up. Case in point I found and article from 2003. Sharon WoO purse to win $10000, 2022 purse to win $10000. 19 years no change in winners share.
And yes my car is parked till hopefully things change.
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If it makes you feel any better the top drag racing classes get way few miles out of theirs.
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May 28, 2022 at
06:20:27 PM
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For the logically impaired, my point was expenses of racing 50 years ago were nowhere near as bad as today. Hell there were stock car drivers actually making a profit in those days with next to nothing in sponsorship. I am guessing a few sprint car drivers did too.
The second part of it I meant that 305 racers in 2029 will be spending on engines what WoO drivers spent in 1999 and racing for the same money 305 guys are racing for now in 2022, which is MUCH less then the WoO was running for in '99. Thanks to Wesmar for sharing 410 costs from the 1990s.
Have a good Memorial Weekend of race attending all Hosehead folks!
The worst president of my lifetime:
Ronald Reagan
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June 02, 2022 at
07:15:25 AM
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The GM CT 525 that is currently used in the Pro series(still hate the name) at Knoxville cost $19k ready to drop in and run. That price includes fuel pump, air filter, headders, ect. I personally believe is it the best bang for your buck in sprintcar racing. with general maintence like changing the oil every 3 nights and servicing the air filter every night these engines have proven to last 3+ seasons at Knoxville. I don't care if you're talking about a racesaver or open 305, neither one of those engines could do that without having to be freshened. the longest I ever got out of a open between freshens was 25 nights.
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June 03, 2022 at
01:00:28 PM
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11/30/2004
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721
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Reply to:
Posted By: mikemracing on June 02 2022 at 07:15:25 AM
The GM CT 525 that is currently used in the Pro series(still hate the name) at Knoxville cost $19k ready to drop in and run. That price includes fuel pump, air filter, headders, ect. I personally believe is it the best bang for your buck in sprintcar racing. with general maintence like changing the oil every 3 nights and servicing the air filter every night these engines have proven to last 3+ seasons at Knoxville. I don't care if you're talking about a racesaver or open 305, neither one of those engines could do that without having to be freshened. the longest I ever got out of a open between freshens was 25 nights.
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Still an expensive motor for the average Joe. A 604 with a 750 CFM carb can make just as much power and is much cheaper. Guessing Knoxville would not want a low brow engine like that.
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