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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Topic: When did these show up?
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Paintboss
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June 18, 2022 at 11:13:41 AM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 2098
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My 1st time seeing a Sprint Car was at Knoxville and it was late 80's (88 or 89). First of all I thought I had died and gone to heaven! Could not believe how fast they were compared to the Fender races I growed up watching!

As far as the cars go, I believe they were basically what they are today? I do know the 360 cars had a significantly smaller top wing.

And not sure if they even had a front wing?

I actually remember my 1st race at Knoxville, It was a WoO show standing in line waiting to go in and a couple of family members of Craig "Cricket Keel was talking to me. Didn't have a clue who he was!!! After that night tho I was hooked! I got the racing virus. 

 

 



StanM
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June 21, 2022 at 09:35:09 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
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Posted By: highspeeddirt on June 17 2022 at 11:50:41 AM

It would be interesting to see the evolution of sprint cars and how they got to what we have today. They pretty much evolved from modifieds in the beginning I believe. A lot of regular Joe's working in their garages in the early days to more manufactured today got us the modern day sprinter.

I have wondered if a group of engineers were to design the baddest dirt oval car would it even look like our modern day sprint cars.



Another question this got me to thinking about.  When I attended my first races lthe cars ran the leaf springs over the front axel instead of the four bar system we see today.  I am guessing the torsion bar setup started in the front engine Indy roadsters (another thing I saw phased out) and found it's way to Sprint Cars.  Open face helmets and those goggles like the ones we wore on the flight deck gave way to the close faced.  


Stan Meissner

Murphy
June 21, 2022 at 10:27:23 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
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Posted By: StanM on June 21 2022 at 09:35:09 AM

Another question this got me to thinking about.  When I attended my first races lthe cars ran the leaf springs over the front axel instead of the four bar system we see today.  I am guessing the torsion bar setup started in the front engine Indy roadsters (another thing I saw phased out) and found it's way to Sprint Cars.  Open face helmets and those goggles like the ones we wore on the flight deck gave way to the close faced.  



    In the early 70's in western S.D., the modifieds were transitionaing into sprint cars. I recall the modifieds had spring front ens but the sprint cars had torsion bars. 

     I remember seeing two sprint cars side by side that had the exact same chassis configuration. My bother-in law explained that there was actually a factory somewhere that built those for racers. I think he called them a Beck chassis. Until that day, every modified I had seen looked to be built in somebody's garage.



rolldog
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June 21, 2022 at 11:27:51 AM
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Posted By: larsonfan on June 16 2022 at 03:29:55 PM

Always been curious when seeing the photos and video of past sprint cars. So, when did these things first show up?.....

1. Downtube frames

2. 25 sq ft top wings

3. Nose wings

4. Non-spindle wheels

5. Smaller fuel tanks (midget tanks?)

6. The move to wraps from hand-painting/lettering

7. Larger RR and LR tires



Great topic - thanks!



Paintboss
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June 21, 2022 at 11:37:35 AM
Joined: 12/02/2004
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The new style ButlerBilt seat that they use today I believe came out around 2002!  I remember Travis Rilat and crew that year in turn 3 & 4 at Knoxville trying to mount it in their Sprintcar. It was the first time I had ever seen it was that year. Rilat went down to Okkalooks that night and won the Ultimate Challenge... Not sure if they actually got that seat mounted in the car or not though!



Screwball
June 21, 2022 at 12:24:57 PM
Joined: 09/07/2019
Posts: 37
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Downtube frames?  I have a different memory of these.  I wish I could remember the year and driver, but the first ones I saw were at Eldora on a USAC car. I don't remember the driver, but I "think" it was either Tom Bigelow or Larry Dickson. The reason I remember is because this was the first time we ever saw such a thing and we went in the pits afterward to check it out.

As it turned out, the two downtubes were not welded to the frame, but bolted from the top of the cage to the front.  There were no wings on the cars at that time. I don't remember what suspension they were running either (torsion bar, spring front).  Again, I don't remember the year or driver.

Here's the crazy part.  A period of time later, there was a rumor going around (since these downtubes were now being talked about) what they really did was serve as a pressure vessel full of nitrox oxide.  Apparently there was some hidden lines going from the tubes to the engine (hidden by body parts) so when the diver pushed the button a blast of nitros would shoot out.

To give complete disclosure, I can't verify the last part is correct, but I know for sure I saw bolt on downtubes on the USAC car at Eldora before any conventional downtube frames were being used.



Murphy
June 21, 2022 at 12:37:34 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
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Posted By: Screwball on June 21 2022 at 12:24:57 PM

Downtube frames?  I have a different memory of these.  I wish I could remember the year and driver, but the first ones I saw were at Eldora on a USAC car. I don't remember the driver, but I "think" it was either Tom Bigelow or Larry Dickson. The reason I remember is because this was the first time we ever saw such a thing and we went in the pits afterward to check it out.

As it turned out, the two downtubes were not welded to the frame, but bolted from the top of the cage to the front.  There were no wings on the cars at that time. I don't remember what suspension they were running either (torsion bar, spring front).  Again, I don't remember the year or driver.

Here's the crazy part.  A period of time later, there was a rumor going around (since these downtubes were now being talked about) what they really did was serve as a pressure vessel full of nitrox oxide.  Apparently there was some hidden lines going from the tubes to the engine (hidden by body parts) so when the diver pushed the button a blast of nitros would shoot out.

To give complete disclosure, I can't verify the last part is correct, but I know for sure I saw bolt on downtubes on the USAC car at Eldora before any conventional downtube frames were being used.



I recall a front page cover photo in Open Wheel magazine from the late 80's/ early 90's that showed a USAC Silver Crown car with downtubes. The downtubes were of a smaller diameter than the rollcage and had adjustable ends like on radius rods. Do you suppose that's where they were hiding their traction control stuff? ;)



Screwball
June 21, 2022 at 01:17:38 PM
Joined: 09/07/2019
Posts: 37
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Posted By: Murphy on June 21 2022 at 12:37:34 PM

I recall a front page cover photo in Open Wheel magazine from the late 80's/ early 90's that showed a USAC Silver Crown car with downtubes. The downtubes were of a smaller diameter than the rollcage and had adjustable ends like on radius rods. Do you suppose that's where they were hiding their traction control stuff? wink



I have no idea.  I wish there was a website that had a bunch of old pictures and/or data so maybe we could figure some of this out.  I did find a winners list of Eldora and USAC shows, but it didn't help much.

I do remember after seeing that downtube car they became the norm not too long after that.  So whenever Gambler or whoever came out with the first welded downtube, this would have been a year or two before that.



revjimk
June 21, 2022 at 01:19:20 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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I still wanna know the difference between old style "in & out boxes" & whatever they use now (don't know the name).....



sp8234tim
June 22, 2022 at 12:20:02 AM
Joined: 06/19/2022
Posts: 1
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Wasn't it 1986 (September) at San Jose Speedway that Steve Kinser his sprintcar with downbars?                                                  He ran the week before with a standard car at Baylands.

Tim

Hanesworth



RacerX20
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June 22, 2022 at 08:11:32 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 95
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Posted By: revjimk on June 21 2022 at 01:19:20 PM

I still wanna know the difference between old style "in & out boxes" & whatever they use now (don't know the name).....



The in and out boxes of the past were just that.  They were located before the rear end and had a lever that you would move to engage the driveshaft to the rear end and then get pushed off.  You would then go the opposite way to disengage and let the motor run but not be in gear.  Today, all that is build into the rear ends using a small internal coupler that connects the small shafts in the rear end, one connected to the driveshaft and one connected to the axle, together to make the car go.



ColtanW
June 22, 2022 at 10:09:15 AM
Joined: 07/03/2010
Posts: 857
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Posted By: highspeeddirt on June 17 2022 at 11:50:41 AM

It would be interesting to see the evolution of sprint cars and how they got to what we have today. They pretty much evolved from modifieds in the beginning I believe. A lot of regular Joe's working in their garages in the early days to more manufactured today got us the modern day sprinter.

I have wondered if a group of engineers were to design the baddest dirt oval car would it even look like our modern day sprint cars.



Doesn't the beginning of sprint cars kind of depend on what region your from?

 

In some areas, sprint cars came from the evolution of supermodifieds, while in other areas, sprint cars came from Champ Cars that were modified with shorter wheel bases to run sprint races.


Ask Frank

revjimk
June 22, 2022 at 11:00:14 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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Posted By: RacerX20 on June 22 2022 at 08:11:32 AM

The in and out boxes of the past were just that.  They were located before the rear end and had a lever that you would move to engage the driveshaft to the rear end and then get pushed off.  You would then go the opposite way to disengage and let the motor run but not be in gear.  Today, all that is build into the rear ends using a small internal coupler that connects the small shafts in the rear end, one connected to the driveshaft and one connected to the axle, together to make the car go.



Thanks.....



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
June 22, 2022 at 11:19:38 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
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Posted By: Murphy on June 21 2022 at 10:27:23 AM

    In the early 70's in western S.D., the modifieds were transitionaing into sprint cars. I recall the modifieds had spring front ens but the sprint cars had torsion bars. 

     I remember seeing two sprint cars side by side that had the exact same chassis configuration. My bother-in law explained that there was actually a factory somewhere that built those for racers. I think he called them a Beck chassis. Until that day, every modified I had seen looked to be built in somebody's garage.



They used to host dates for IMCA and USAC (AAA pre mid 50's) on the dirt during the Minnesota State Fair on the dirt in the late 50's and early 60's and confined hosting them after they paved it.  The way it went down at our local tracks is that the Supermodifieds started as home buit from old coups.  Every season the rules were relaxed a bit more until the Supers were essentially winged Sprints.  My cousin owned the Wagner #63 after Wagner had it (the same car HOF driver Jerry Richert drove on the IMCA circuit).  He made a bolt on roll cafe and Speedway Motors body.  The ran it as a coupe with the body and carb, as a winged Super with injection and had the option to remove the cage and be IMCA legal.  My point is that Sprints and Supermodifieds coexisted until the coupes were no longer competitive.  In the early 80's when they went with the wings on Sprints the lines were no longer blurred.  That is about how it went according to my memory.  it was a gradual change and likely played out differently in different parte of the country.  

I saw a few early 60's Modifieds that used what today we would call downtubes.  I don't think we will ever point to one individual but things changed at a rapid pace and they experimented with some crazy ideas.  Back in the days of narrow tires on the home built Modifieds my cousin and uncle tried combining two wheels for more traction off the right rear.  They tried a few other things that didn't stick during the early 60's.  When they started lightening the coupes to try and keep up with cars that used Sprint chassis some more f the things they came up with were pretty wild.  For a few years there you didn't know what you were going to see next.  It was a great thing to experience as there haven't been chanages that radical since then.


Stan Meissner

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