Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Gas prices & PPV work together to cut attendance.

If gas was expensive, but no PPV, more people would go, only way to watch

Cheap gas, & PPV, more people would go... live is SO much better

High gas price, & PPV, perfect storm, not as many travelers. I wonder if gas prices affect locals? It wouldn't stop me if I lived closer to a good track, PPV or not!

I have to drive 4-5 hrs. to a GOOD dirt track, only did 2 weekends last summer, mainly cause I have to take care of my 99 yr. old Mom. Haven't been to any races yet this year, hoping for a couple of Pa. Speedweek shows & Tusky 50, at least

I've been watching a lot of PPV, but it DOESN"T COMPARE to live!

I agree, PPV is ok, live is so much better!  It is like night and day!  

One also has to wonder.....how many of the people in the stands on this past weekend have a season pass?  Yes, they paid for that pass......but the track receives no cash on the day of the races thoughout the year.  If they get all there races in the fan makes out really well buying a season pass.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

One track I know of got around $1200 from Flo per race last year. That equals to about 60 people average per race. They are losing a lot of money per week at that rate.

Bingo on the allocation and it is pretty much across all industries. Raw materials are hard to get no matter what commodity they are for. In the packaging world we are still getting material based on July 2020 -July 2021 numbers. If your sales are more than those numbers now then it does not matter, you are only getting what the mill/distributor decides your allocation is. We even have tried to use other suppliers for materials but they don't want to take the business because of capacity and would not be able fulfill orders for their existing customers. 

I doubt even letting another tire manufacturer will help other than possibly putting a temp bandaid on the shortage. All of the tire companies are still getting materials from the same places and are probably under allocation as well for those raw materials. If they take on the Outlaws or All Stars or Sprint car racing in general, then while temporarly racers might be able to get tires from the new manufacturer, if the raw material vendor allocates you because they cannot produce for a variety of factors, then you will be back into the same position. If all of the tire companies have a total orders of 100tires, but the raw material vendors can only produce material for 60 tires then all will end up getting allocated. Whether its even or not is a different story. I am sure Hoosier is allocating to teams to make sure there are enough tires for the bigger events such as speedweeks, Kings Royal, Knoxville Nationals, and whatever other bigger races across other forms of racing. I would say those are more of a priority than making sure if a regular show in whatever part of the country has enough tires. 

Flipside is that the track is still getting paid on the nights season ticket holders don't show up, and the track got paid the money upfront.

Selinsgrove hasn't been OK. It was nearly empty for the Kramer Cup a couple weeks ago, better last week for Kid's Night/Whitcomb memorial but still way less than half full. They only draw decent crowds for big 410 shows. I've wondered how much the tracks get from streaming. I don't think it significantly reduces attendance. I go to my local tracks about as much as I would if it wasn't available. The races I watch on FLO, I wouldn't likely attend anyhow. Port gets packed for big shows and I'm sure that helps cushion the blow of low weekly attendance. Having streaming does make you think twice about driving very far in iffy weather. 

A

The only tire rules that should exist are size and compound, NOT manufacturer. If the tracks and series would quit bowing to Hoosier kickbacks, maybe trire shortages wouldn't be an issue.

A

this is the direction most sports are going.  the big boys have million if not billion dollar tv contracts though...so i wonder how much the tracks get for the streaming service.  they might actually prefer the streaming revenue since they'll deal with less nonsense at the tracks with fan behavior.

we've gone to a lot less races since i got the flo subscription last year.  my 8 year old doesn't want to stay out late like he used to so i get up sunday am and catch up on everything.  i was pumped when i heard about the program at port royal saturday...but as it gets closer...i'm not sure i want to be there until around midnight with the whole family.  gas prices are a factor too.

then again...i never cared about wingless sprint cars until i got flo and we're going to the grove tomorrow night.  it has gotten me interested in new forms of racing.  hard to say if it balances out in the end.

This may be the case for some, but not for others.  However, when I hear "PPV is killing sprint car racing" I can't help but think:

The industrial revolution is killing blacksmiths

The invention of the computer is killing the typewriter

The automobile is killing the horse farmer

Cell phones are killing traditional telephones

Google is killing the encyclopedia

Point is, PPV IS the wave of the future, so the industry is going to have to adapt, period.  So, maybe they aren't all yet, but I agree with you that this is possibly the direction at some events.  ????  

So kick backs for tires is taboo but kick back for pay per view is OK?

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

This may be true, sadly. Are you saying eventually no more fans in the stands at all?

Live racing is WAYYYYYY better than PPV!!!

If it wasn't for my  old Mom, I'd go to lots more races, regardless of gas prices or PPV

just heard Australia is useing a Chinese knock off tire.

Streaming is definately hurting the tracks in central PA. Things will change by next year for sure. 

I been going to Pa tracks since 1968. I no longer go near the amount of races i use to. Its got nothing to do with PPV , its all about the 3 and 4 div shows. I refuse to drive an hr to sit thru div i have no interest in.  Everyone knows most the fans at Pa tracks are there for the 410's..  Even for the big Steve Smith tribute race [47 cars] they added 2 other div. Another marathon at Lincoln. ps. The 6 or 7 car heats at Lincoln doesn't help. BORING!!!!

On Saturday June 11th they had a two division show.  I like two things about there shows.  They start heats at 7:30 after the sun is going down pretty good.  Helps to keep more moisture in the surface.  I like that fact that they will only be 8 cars in a heat, especially since the higher point guys start at the back....the way it should be everywhere in PA.  They have something to run for.....the top 2 spots in the heats are the only ones that get handicapped to the front of the feature.  That is great.  When one of the point leaders doesn't make it to 2nd they have to start a little farther back in the feature.  That makes for a lot of passing.  I love it!  

I would rather have 33 410's and 29 358's at the track than some of these other tracks that don't get full fields.  If they do get full fields over half the field has no chance at winning.

At Lincoln the little guy or gal has a shot at leading for a while and maybe even winning.  I saw a young lady earlier this year lead for many laps before being passed.  She still would have had a top 3 fininish if she wouldn't have spun out going into turn one.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

<<  Do the All Stars have some pull with Hoosier?  >>

Probably.  Tony Stewart is from Indiana and so is Hoosier.

Kick back for apples is taboo but kick back for oranges is OK? 

But that money only reaches so far.  If you watched the highlights of some of the tracks in PA.  It looked like there wasn't very many people in the stands.   

I know a few season ticket holders.  They make out very well if they get all the races in during the year.  They get some of there races for free if you add up the general admission for each time a track races.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

It's going to be hard to put that genie back in the bottle now that owners, sponsors, and family have been able to follow touring teams at a reasonable cost.  I think dirt racing is in a bit of a tough spot with streaming.  Any sport that can't offer reasonably priced streaming in 2022 is stuck in a 1950's business model aka "you have to drive hours to some small town hundreds of miles away and attend or you can't be a fan".   

I have watched racing since 1960 and it has come a long ways but still is not an ideal subject for TV.  By that I mean there is too much down time to hold the general publics interest.  Case in point, watching All Star Speedweek this past week I found myself changing channels for track work and support classes.  At the track I can tune that stuff out and BS with someone until racing resumes.  At home those things aren't as easy to ignore.

I don't know how other fans manage their entertainment budgets but I'm retired and can't be throwing $200-$300 at racing every weekend all summer.  For the most part I like 410 Sprints and to a lesser extent Super Late Models.  Those classes are special events where I live or I can travel from 4-6 hours one way for 410 Sprints.  As I mentioned before, i travel alone and pay for all the gas, motels and meals and do all the driving...at 70+.  Meanwhile that same race can be watched for $150'per year on Floracing or $40 per month or $300 per year on Dirtvision.  It's not like if streaming didn't exist I would opt for the drive and expense as that would be cost prohibitive.  if streaming at a reasonable cost went away I would basically be a life long racing fan since 1960 hung out to dry.  Out of sight, out of mind and I'm sure that would be the choice for a lot of people in similar circumstances.  For example, I got to know Bill Balog when he first moved to Wisconsin and sold an 8x10'or two to family members up in Alaska when I was taking photos.  Those family members are able to follow Bill's career here in the lower 48 and that is just one example.  I dont think charging full admission prices is a good idea when people can get NFL packages for $100 per year and services like Netflix for less than $20 per month.  I know the talking points comparing the dirt racing business model to those services but the woman who handles my bills only looks at price and value and I'll never convince her I should spend a disproportionate amount of our entertainment budget on racing.  
 

I should point out that I have several tracks within an hour of home but none of them offer 410 Sprints.  The classes are all stock cars and modified classes with some limited Sprint racing.  I went to see my neighbors son drive their limited Sprint last weekend and I will do that a few times as well as take in some special events but my main source of following racing is streaming.  People say support your local track.  That is all well and good when they live near Knoxville or in PA but it would be a major expense if one is not in a good location.  If streaming went away I would go back to YouTube hilites and text results and find something else to occupy my time in the evening.  

Stan Meissner

I agree with you 100%----it's not even close for me.  I don't think we'll see empty stands racing in our lifetimes, with the exception of pandemic style racing.  However, it's going to trend in that direction for some shows I'm afraid.  WoO is not even close to that problem as it appears almost every show is packed. 

As for what's better and what's not----I think most of us agree the life before the smartphone was better.  However, the smartphone is the new norm and we're never going back.  I am a cash guy, but even I will admit that i will not be using cash for anything in 10 years.  Life at the track, prior to PPV, was better.  I don't think anyone can argue this.  However, PPV is here to stay and it is going to be a HUGE revenue stream for dirt racing for the future.  Tracks, series, promoters, and fans will have to adapt and jump on board whether they like it or not.  Anyone who protests PPV will simply be left behind much like those of us who prefer a flip-phone and cash.  :)