Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

No one said we should power a midget with coal.  I said we should use it as energy.  

Let the racing alone.  We don't need electric racing anywhere.  We need it to stay the way it is.  If it changes they will lose a lot of fans. 

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

I don't disagree that we don't need electric race cars.  However, we're going to have them.   Eventually there will only be electric cars OR cars powered by a source we don't even know about yet.  (Mr. Fusion from Back to the Future 2?)  The change will be very gradual and will not have any more of an affect on racing attendance than any of the other drastic changes that have occurred over the past 100+ years of racing.  Decades ago big companies had rooms full of people on typewriters.  Then the copy machine was invented.  No more typists.   Up until the late 1800's, blacksmiths produced everything farmers and industry used.  Then, they were replaced by the Industrial Revolution's explosion of mass manufacturing.  No more blacksmiths.  Horse farmers raised and trained millions of horses for daily transportation until first the steam engine, and then the internal combustion engine, replaced almost all of this demand.   Very few horse breeders left on this planet unless they are raising them for racing.   The steam engines?  Replaced by diesel locomotives.  Diesel?  In the process of being replaced by biodiesel.  Will biodiesel ever be replaced?  You bet your ass.  

 I think of all of the technology I've seen come and go in my 48 years on earth.  As said earlier, if you haven't yet accepted that ALL personal vehicles on this planet will eventually be electric, you have your head in the sand.  If you think we will still be burning coal in electric powerplants in the country 50 years from now, you have your head in the sand.  We are done investing in 1800's technology.  And, if you think that someday most, if not all of the racecars circling a racetrack won't be electric, then you have your head in the sand.  Change doesn't care how much you and I dislike the idea of electric race cars in 2022.  Change is going to happen regardless. 

I am almost 20 years older than you and have seen more advances than you. I am not sure what the obsession with electric cars is all about. The internal combustion engine might disappear or it might stay and be fueled by something else. It might be fueled by something that hasn't been developed yet. I think the people hell bent on all cars being electric are the narrow minded. I visited the Wright Brothers museum in Kitty Hawk last week. I said to my wife that the most amazing thing about it is that we went from that to putting men on the moon in 65 years. We might see all cars being electric but I am betting on something not yet developed coming along before they are all electric. 

You failed to notice the sarcasm in Bezzr's comment

I heard we were going to lose fans when they decided to let sprint cars run with the super modifieds at Port Royal. I knew several fans who did not like those things at all.

You are correct-----we absolutely could see something else.  I don't think obsession is the right word for the transition to electric cars.  Myself, and 90% of those close to me, have no intentions of going to electric vehicles.  However, the exponential growth of electric cars is upon us whether you and I are obsessed of not.  Whether or not politicians push electric cars or not, the transition is going to happen.  Yes, there are subsidies that are fueling the increase-----but subsidies for e-cars began sometime back in the Bush administration if I'm not mistaken.  The big 3 automakers, along with many foreign companies, are trying to be at the cutting edge of electic technology, and that alone will fuel (no pun intended) the surge in electric vehicle sales.  On a side note, I don't believe it will happen as quickly as many think it can.  Toyota has been one of the slowest at development of electric vehicles, and has been putting tons of R&D in hybrid vehicles.  Why?  They express some of the same immediate concerns as have been expressed on this thread.  Infrastructure being number 1.  When Toyota begins a full-blown electric vehicle development program, we should start to realize the e-car blitz is upon us.  When Toyota speaks, the auto world will be on notice.  

I said this once before on this thread, but let me repeat... Wrecking a sprint car or midget packed with hundreds of pounds of lithium batteries will be spectacular when it results in fire, it may take several hours to put out that fire and clean up the carnage to track and such.  A lithium battery the size of a lunch pail has the potential to create an explosion that will level an average size house, and unlike methanol, lithium burns with or without oxygen, hot and fast.

Up here in Texas ?

Bring back Santa Fe, and LaSalle .

I wonder how many of these junk e-cars were caught on 95 in the latest storm in VA.  I bet they wished they had gas cars if they were in an e-car......just saying!!

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

I live in NW Texas, sorry just habit, most everyone I talk to (mostly Texans) I say up here because.....I am

Yup, think of a hot 95 degree day in LA, bumper to bumper traffic for hours, AC blasting on high.  How many of those electrics are going to be stranded on the freeway out of power?  Sounds like a money-making opportunity for someone who can come up with a portable charger......aka a diesel gen on a trailer!

I'm guessing that it would suck to go in the ditch with one in rural Minnesota on a -25 degree night.  Matter of fact, that sucks in just about any vehicle and expecially one that heats on battery power.  Better load the trunk with firewood.

On a more serious note what if someone suggested that we go to 23 second laps, roll bars behind the drivers head, skinny tires and no wings?  Blasphemy some would say and most of today's speed freaks (aka 410 or else crowd) would refuse to watch them but that is exactly where this all started for me 61 years ago.  If I'm lucky I'll have another 10 or 15 so Sprint Cars are likely to have V8's for the remainder of my time on this rock.  Come to think of it I saw a few Offys and Ranger aircraft engines race in my younger days.  As they say "the only constant is change".

Stan Meissner

This thread is a microcosm of the issues we can't seem to iron out as human beings in 2022.  I don't recall anyone in this entire thread claiming we are ready for 100 % electric cars and 100% clean energy.  There have been some very good arguments on why we are not ready to switch completely to clean energy and e-cars.  I don't believe anyone is disputing these issues.  I feel there are a large group of Hosers I would not like running my R&D department------since everything is good enough and change is bad.  I've seen the VA snowstorm brought up numerous times on social media---and it brings up a good point.  However, this does not hinder the fact that these obstacles are going to be overcome over the next several decades and will be nothing but a speedbump.  

I can just picture this discussion back in the early-1900's.  If you do a little research, you will uncover just how unpopular the invention of the automobile was with many in this country.  "too noisy"  "too much pollution"  "not enough roads"   "too little available fuel"    In one article, it states that it took 50 years to displace the horse in agriculture and transportation.  Think about that.  Something we take for granted was not even wanted by many in this country.  They claimed we could never put a network together to fuel these cars and allow them safe passage across the country.  Sound humorous yet?  We will never have the amount of fuel available to put an automobile in the hands of 1/2 of the country, let alone 1 automobile for every household.  Are you laughing yet?  I've got 5 cars in my driveway right this second.  I can drive to 4 gas stations in my little town in less than 3 minutes.  I can jump in my car and drive to any of the lower-48 on a very good transportation system.  All things a bunch of dumb hillbillies were disputing could ever happen 100 years ago.  Sound familiar?  

Yes, the e-car industry will be subsidized for years to come.  Every town (including mine) that has erected wind turbines has faced the same critics.  The wind turbines were subsidized and in the beginning, were not profitable.  As time has gone on, technology has advanced, and those subsidies have been phased out, wind power has either reached, or is close to reaching a level of profitability on its own without tax payers help.  This was the goal all along.  E-cars will be the same in the long run.  This will be a multi-trillion dollar business that in the future will not require your tax dollars to make it profitable.  Yes, it may take your tax dollars to beef up the electic grid.  However, the power flowing through this infrastructure will allow power companies to maintain this grid on their own.  Corporate America will seize the opportunity to profit from the e-car boom and it will be on from there.  We are in the infant stages of this.  For the electric car, we are at the equivalent of 1910 for the development of the automobile.  Ford sold 200 Model T's in 1908.  Ford sold almost 800,000 Model T's in 1919.  And, he sold all of them regardless of the nay-sayers and resistance he got from the rest of the country.  

I wouldn't go buy your e-car now.  The only way I will ever buy one is if it makes sense to do so---and at this point, based on some pretty good arguments, it doesn't make any sense to do so.  But it will soon folks.  Soon could be 10 years.  It could be 50.  But if the automobile can displace the age-old horse in 50 years, how long do you really think this transformation will take?  My over under is 20.  And the race car comes with it.  Put it in the bank.    

23 second laps???? sounds like A main at the grove.... sorry, couldn't resist, proceed on with the debate of what will happen, wheather or not we are alive to see it, is the only question. 

Yesterday:  GM unveils Silverado with 400 mile range.  

(I have zero desire to own one------just thought it should be pointed out)

Nope.....it sounds more like the A-main at another PA track....that is about an hour west of the Grove.  I couldn't resist either!!

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

My 20 year old truck can get 400 miles to the tank full during interstate driving and it cost me 75-80 dolllars. How much would a charge for an electic vehicle cost to cover that 400 miles?  I imagine steep mountains can drain a battery pretty quickly reducing miles per charge similar to losing miles per gallon, How long does it take to get a full charge with an EV and if its a short charging period will the charge last or fade easily? I can fill my truck in ten minutes and be on my way. I doubt I'll ever have an EV but you never know, the more I read about them the more interesing they are. Mabye a Tesla but never a prius

Yup, that ditch is no more friendly than a clogged freeway, although at least your car isn't in the way when you abandon it to walk for help.

I've been going to the races for nearly 50 years and I do miss those "old" days as well.  I'm not sure the competition and racing was better or worse back then, but the passing time makes those days seem better.  I appreciate the advances in safety that have come along in those years and we must continue to do more.  The 23 second lap wasn't bad when everyone was going the same speed.  Maybe it just seems fast when you are 10 years old.

I agree wiht egras.  Electric cars are coming.  Maybe it will be a development past electric cars.  Who knows what and when at this point.  And if electrics are the norm, then we will be racing electrics.  People that like to race will race whatever is at hand and they will enjoy it.  Shane Carson or Andy Hillenberg told a story about racing live crabs one night at someone's house after a WoO race.  All the guys (Kinser, etc) are down on their knees, yelling at their crab to run faster.  And so it will be with electrics.  If they can figure out a way to pipe in noise and the smell of methanol and oil burning.....

In answer to your question, it costs about 4 cents per mile (average driving) to charge or $16 per 400 miles.  And yes, there are obstacles to overcome as far as charging time goes, but they will be overcome in time.  Don't rush out and by your electric Silverado right now unless it's practical for you to let it charge for hours.  Once it gets to 1000 miles on a 2 hour charge, I might start to consider it.  (and it will get there)  

That is at todays prices.  Electric has been going up like crazy over the last 9 months to a year.  It will cost a lot more in the near future.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!