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Topic: Whatever happened to?--- Part II Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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jdsprint71
September 30, 2011 at 11:02:28 AM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
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In no particlular order , WoO in the early 90's 1/2 mile OKC cannot remember who it was,think he was from Colorado,anyway RF Heim on tie rod broke about 1/2 way down back stretch turned into wall at speed and car went flipping everywhich way and motor came out of car and nothing left of car from firewall foward, also rearend was slung out of the chassis and fuel cell as well ,even broke PS unit and that was the real issue as it burned his legs some with Hot PS fluid all over his legs and body, I thought the fella was not going to make it but he was helped out and did OK after a trip to the Hospital that day, he only had burns on his thighs from what I remember. Cage though held up from what I remember seeing.

Bruce Jennings flip back in the late 80's Champ Dirt Cars off turn 1 on 1/2 mile ,Car pieces were everywhere and not much was salvageable on his car on top of that he caught on fire and it was scary and Bruce was lucky.

Bert Woodring flipping at Tulsa Speedway north of town in 1988 and landing in trees on backstretch off turn 3, I think he had to climb down the tree to get looked at by Medical Personnel and had to pull car down out of trees as well, it was one of those Jack Rich Chassis.

2008 Mike Peters head on into the wall at Speed at OKC on the 3/8 coming off turn 4 at full speed , something broke in front end and never had time to lift and brake and just went head on into the wall,really thought Mike would not make it with his age and all but about 30 sec. went by and he started moving around and I guess gathering his thoughts/composure and he unhooked his shoulder belts and crawled out and track officials were there by then and he started walking back towards pit area in turn 4 and they had to stop him and make him go to the ambulance, always knew Mike was tough but that right there solidified it for me. Guy is one tough Hombre in my book. He hit the wall so hard it broke stuff on the motor and bent rear motor plate back which got into driveline which got into rear end which got into fuel cell.

Always heard Jr. Taft flip at the old Tulsa Speedway was a really bad one that ended his life,heard some of car landed on Yale Ave.???

One other time , 1978 Devil's Bowl ,RR Firestone Drag 500 came off a Sprinter coming off turn 4 and it was a steel wheel as well and come over hit in Res. Sec. of Grandstands and wiped out 2 empty Res.Sec. Plastic/Rubber Chairs and then proceeded to hit a guy a couple of rows up from there who was very drunk at the time and wheel and tire hit him pretty solid stopped with him from going anywhere else , he was laid out and had blood everywhere on his face where rim cut into his head from what I understood , people especially women were going crazy , yelling and screaming and medical personnel got up there and they got him stable and took him to Hosp. and I remember someone coming up to the press box saying the Medical people said he was going to be OK and would live and prolly had a broke arm and ribs and a concussion but also said if the guy was not drunk it prolly would of killed him, something about his adrenaline would have been going big time but with all the alcohol in him it slowed it down and kept him calm.I was about 14 or so years old and it was a pretty wicked deal to me at the time and something will never forget.

 

J.D.



studieman
September 30, 2011 at 01:22:31 PM
Joined: 09/13/2006
Posts: 25
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on September 30 2011 at 11:02:28 AM

In no particlular order , WoO in the early 90's 1/2 mile OKC cannot remember who it was,think he was from Colorado,anyway RF Heim on tie rod broke about 1/2 way down back stretch turned into wall at speed and car went flipping everywhich way and motor came out of car and nothing left of car from firewall foward, also rearend was slung out of the chassis and fuel cell as well ,even broke PS unit and that was the real issue as it burned his legs some with Hot PS fluid all over his legs and body, I thought the fella was not going to make it but he was helped out and did OK after a trip to the Hospital that day, he only had burns on his thighs from what I remember. Cage though held up from what I remember seeing.

Bruce Jennings flip back in the late 80's Champ Dirt Cars off turn 1 on 1/2 mile ,Car pieces were everywhere and not much was salvageable on his car on top of that he caught on fire and it was scary and Bruce was lucky.

Bert Woodring flipping at Tulsa Speedway north of town in 1988 and landing in trees on backstretch off turn 3, I think he had to climb down the tree to get looked at by Medical Personnel and had to pull car down out of trees as well, it was one of those Jack Rich Chassis.

2008 Mike Peters head on into the wall at Speed at OKC on the 3/8 coming off turn 4 at full speed , something broke in front end and never had time to lift and brake and just went head on into the wall,really thought Mike would not make it with his age and all but about 30 sec. went by and he started moving around and I guess gathering his thoughts/composure and he unhooked his shoulder belts and crawled out and track officials were there by then and he started walking back towards pit area in turn 4 and they had to stop him and make him go to the ambulance, always knew Mike was tough but that right there solidified it for me. Guy is one tough Hombre in my book. He hit the wall so hard it broke stuff on the motor and bent rear motor plate back which got into driveline which got into rear end which got into fuel cell.

Always heard Jr. Taft flip at the old Tulsa Speedway was a really bad one that ended his life,heard some of car landed on Yale Ave.???

One other time , 1978 Devil's Bowl ,RR Firestone Drag 500 came off a Sprinter coming off turn 4 and it was a steel wheel as well and come over hit in Res. Sec. of Grandstands and wiped out 2 empty Res.Sec. Plastic/Rubber Chairs and then proceeded to hit a guy a couple of rows up from there who was very drunk at the time and wheel and tire hit him pretty solid stopped with him from going anywhere else , he was laid out and had blood everywhere on his face where rim cut into his head from what I understood , people especially women were going crazy , yelling and screaming and medical personnel got up there and they got him stable and took him to Hosp. and I remember someone coming up to the press box saying the Medical people said he was going to be OK and would live and prolly had a broke arm and ribs and a concussion but also said if the guy was not drunk it prolly would of killed him, something about his adrenaline would have been going big time but with all the alcohol in him it slowed it down and kept him calm.I was about 14 or so years old and it was a pretty wicked deal to me at the time and something will never forget.

 

J.D.



I've seen a lot of carnage and freak accidents, but one miracle was when Benny Taylor driving his #13 about 1972 broke a RR wheel center or hub making his big tire take off at the end of the front straight at Tulsa. He was full speed and crossed up when it came off spinning with gyro effect heading to the pit area. Seemed like a long time for the high flight and fear as everyone gasped in horror it went deep into the pits and that was it. No bounce! It hit Benny's tow vehicle in the passenger door and stopped it cold. Could have been real ugly.

jdsprint71
September 30, 2011 at 02:07:25 PM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
Reply

studieman, Those sudden stop crashes seem to be worse , the others that endo/barrel roll and gyrate are bad looking but as they say in Physics talk , energy is actually going away and out from the carnage, a direct hit and it absorbs it all on impact. Heck the Mike Peters deal in 08 at OKC was prolly the least spectacular watching it but the sound of the impact and the impact results really said and told it all , also you can add to it the Speed these Winged Sprinters that are just so locked down to the track these days and the speed they carry and it just adds to the force but also technology in safety end of it is also what helped Mike unhook the belts and get out and be able to walk away.

 

J.D.




Bkcr
MyWebsite
September 30, 2011 at 07:44:00 PM
Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 599
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on September 30 2011 at 02:07:25 PM

studieman, Those sudden stop crashes seem to be worse , the others that endo/barrel roll and gyrate are bad looking but as they say in Physics talk , energy is actually going away and out from the carnage, a direct hit and it absorbs it all on impact. Heck the Mike Peters deal in 08 at OKC was prolly the least spectacular watching it but the sound of the impact and the impact results really said and told it all , also you can add to it the Speed these Winged Sprinters that are just so locked down to the track these days and the speed they carry and it just adds to the force but also technology in safety end of it is also what helped Mike unhook the belts and get out and be able to walk away.

 

J.D.



At the old Tulsa track in 1969 there was a 3 car flip going into turn3 . Dale Reed Earl McDoulet and Jerry Holm, it looked like they Had it planed one end over end , another doing barrel rolls and Dale doing it all. They landed in the barns on the north side of the track and all were ok. I never saw a car lane on Yale but always heard about one. In 1971 Jim Harkness was driving Del Torrance's's Budmobile and he went out in about the same spot, it was about the highest in altitude that I ever saw at the old track. There are pictures of it on this site, Jim's arms are hanging out. Jim went to the hospital but was ok, Del sold the car and never raced one of his own again. the big track was so fast that it was scary. Doug Johnson had a rel bad one and landed inside the fence. Aaron Maddens's in 1975 was real bad. The highest flip had to be Steve Kinser coming down the back straight in 1981,I think several cars went under him while he was in the air

Ray



jlstew25
September 30, 2011 at 09:01:54 PM
Joined: 06/25/2005
Posts: 407
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This message was edited on September 30, 2011 at 09:30:04 PM by jlstew25
Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on September 30 2011 at 02:07:25 PM

studieman, Those sudden stop crashes seem to be worse , the others that endo/barrel roll and gyrate are bad looking but as they say in Physics talk , energy is actually going away and out from the carnage, a direct hit and it absorbs it all on impact. Heck the Mike Peters deal in 08 at OKC was prolly the least spectacular watching it but the sound of the impact and the impact results really said and told it all , also you can add to it the Speed these Winged Sprinters that are just so locked down to the track these days and the speed they carry and it just adds to the force but also technology in safety end of it is also what helped Mike unhook the belts and get out and be able to walk away.

 

J.D.



Have to agree with ya on this one J.D. The crash below was a crash like you've described. I hit the 15 car wide open while he was in the air after bouncing off the wall (I'm knocked out cold in this pic). I've barrel rolled, been end-over-end and walked away each time, but the sudden impact on this one had different results. This one gave me a concussion, bruised kidney, broken teeth and broken ribs. Not a fun night at the races!


John Stewart

Retro Racing Custom Model Cars
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studieman
October 01, 2011 at 02:53:09 AM
Joined: 09/13/2006
Posts: 25
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Reply to:
Posted By: Bkcr on September 30 2011 at 07:44:00 PM

At the old Tulsa track in 1969 there was a 3 car flip going into turn3 . Dale Reed Earl McDoulet and Jerry Holm, it looked like they Had it planed one end over end , another doing barrel rolls and Dale doing it all. They landed in the barns on the north side of the track and all were ok. I never saw a car lane on Yale but always heard about one. In 1971 Jim Harkness was driving Del Torrance's's Budmobile and he went out in about the same spot, it was about the highest in altitude that I ever saw at the old track. There are pictures of it on this site, Jim's arms are hanging out. Jim went to the hospital but was ok, Del sold the car and never raced one of his own again. the big track was so fast that it was scary. Doug Johnson had a rel bad one and landed inside the fence. Aaron Maddens's in 1975 was real bad. The highest flip had to be Steve Kinser coming down the back straight in 1981,I think several cars went under him while he was in the air

Ray



Ray I was on the rebuild of the Budmobile after that crash. It was around the clock with several guy's giving 110% to get it back on track. It was stripped to bare frame, straightened, cut, rewelded and back headed east to Joplin by Tuesday. I was 20 and didn't know any better, but the older guy's were really dedicated and when they showed they were willing to do anything for the cause, it encouraged you to be part of the magic. I was thinking Dale Looper was the driver that night, but you're probably right with Harkness. He was a decent guy! Looper only drove twice as I recall, Del wasn't impressed, but his record showed more than those 2 times showed. That frame was replaced later in the season when Del thought it had had enough, but It was built into another car and sold to Gene Daniels.


Bkcr
MyWebsite
October 01, 2011 at 07:48:20 AM
Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 599
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This message was edited on October 01, 2011 at 07:55:01 AM by Bkcr
Reply to:
Posted By: studieman on October 01 2011 at 02:53:09 AM
Ray I was on the rebuild of the Budmobile after that crash. It was around the clock with several guy's giving 110% to get it back on track. It was stripped to bare frame, straightened, cut, rewelded and back headed east to Joplin by Tuesday. I was 20 and didn't know any better, but the older guy's were really dedicated and when they showed they were willing to do anything for the cause, it encouraged you to be part of the magic. I was thinking Dale Looper was the driver that night, but you're probably right with Harkness. He was a decent guy! Looper only drove twice as I recall, Del wasn't impressed, but his record showed more than those 2 times showed. That frame was replaced later in the season when Del thought it had had enough, but It was built into another car and sold to Gene Daniels.


I am pretty sure it was Jimmy Harkness,on the Tulsa pictures on this site you can see Jimmy's arms hanging out of the car, his wife was sitting close to us when they came to get her to go to the hospital with Jimmmy. I think that he was just bruised up. What did Emmett drive for the OKC Doctor, i always thought it was the ex Budmobile, did Gene sell it or was it a different car?

Ray



brian26
October 03, 2011 at 06:16:25 AM
Joined: 12/03/2006
Posts: 7918
Reply

Mar Car collection

Tulsa 1956

scan0001-1.jpg




jdsprint71
October 03, 2011 at 10:04:22 AM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
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John, That is when it is no fun racing , but it is just part of it.

 

J.D.




redbandana
October 03, 2011 at 02:14:51 PM
Joined: 01/21/2007
Posts: 337
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Reply to:
Posted By: brian26 on October 03 2011 at 06:16:25 AM

Mar Car collection

Tulsa 1956

scan0001-1.jpg



This has happened to almost every track that is in the middle of a big town or city...There are very few left that still run that are in ther middle of a town...It has to be part of the life of the town or have a big payout for the town or a race track just wont work in the middle anymore... I know that Sedeila Mo has the State Fair but it is a smaller town and the money from the fair and the track pays big to the city.And several people that live there are involved also and it is there living....Same goes for Knoxville that town lives for the Nationals every years.and the other big races for different classes they have..Again it is a smaler town and many people there it is there living...Belleville High banks same kinda thing the town small and is famous because of the track and it make them money...

Demonies Iowa still run the half mile at the Fair grounds there weekly but it is in an older part of the town with not so many newer higher priced house around it..Alot of the bussnesses around it make money from the State Fair there also.They have alot of other thing that go on at the fairgeound on a regular basis..

Are there anyother tracks that are is the middle of town that run weekly anymore..It seems like most of them have moved out of town or any that are left are in very small towns and it helps small bussnesses there when there is a race..


Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

jdsprint71
October 03, 2011 at 03:28:23 PM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
Reply
This message was edited on October 03, 2011 at 03:29:06 PM by jdsprint71

Muskogee,Ok. T-Bird is not exactly in the middle of town but it is in town and they run weekly.

Port Royal Speedway is in the middle of town but Port Royal is kind of like Knoxville, not that big,same for Lucas Oil Speedway in Wheatland,Mo.

From what I have read recently the Knoxville Nat. being in the middle of town in Knoxville,Ia. has created a stir with law enforcement as they from what I have read the police really are overzealous on ticketing fans who attend the Nationals during that week in Aug. for the veryest of minor infractions, Never have been to Knoxville so can't say first hand but have heard they have had issues in the past and really here in the last year or so and do not show any lienency towards the vacationing fans of the event.

The Moody Mile is located in the middle of Syracuse,NY where the Big Dirt Modified race is held in Oct.

One thing I'll add to this is flyer of the old Tulsa Speedway being opposed, well now they have the Chili Bowl right next door to this track and folks have complained since year about the event, although it pumps a ton of money into Tulsa economy each and every year they still want it gone as it keeps them up during that week or some other reason, funny how City's want revenue and want you to come spend money in their town and Tulsa has one of the Top 5 Racing events in the world,not just Okla., or the USA but the world , as been stated by several of Media racing members on TV who cover all those motorsports events all over the world and luckily the City of Tulsa has figured it out and has helped with some things to keep this event at the Expo. Yet the neighborhoods around there like to complain and over the years they (the event promoters) have tried to be good neighbors with the event and have implemented a curfew and other things, but still from what I hear they neighborhoods still want it to go away, even if their job is helped along by this event , that does not matter, not looking at the BIG picture in this day and time of a very tough economy and a volatile world.

 

J.D.



redbandana
October 03, 2011 at 06:49:20 PM
Joined: 01/21/2007
Posts: 337
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This message was edited on October 03, 2011 at 06:53:35 PM by redbandana
Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on October 03 2011 at 03:28:23 PM

Muskogee,Ok. T-Bird is not exactly in the middle of town but it is in town and they run weekly.

Port Royal Speedway is in the middle of town but Port Royal is kind of like Knoxville, not that big,same for Lucas Oil Speedway in Wheatland,Mo.

From what I have read recently the Knoxville Nat. being in the middle of town in Knoxville,Ia. has created a stir with law enforcement as they from what I have read the police really are overzealous on ticketing fans who attend the Nationals during that week in Aug. for the veryest of minor infractions, Never have been to Knoxville so can't say first hand but have heard they have had issues in the past and really here in the last year or so and do not show any lienency towards the vacationing fans of the event.

The Moody Mile is located in the middle of Syracuse,NY where the Big Dirt Modified race is held in Oct.

One thing I'll add to this is flyer of the old Tulsa Speedway being opposed, well now they have the Chili Bowl right next door to this track and folks have complained since year about the event, although it pumps a ton of money into Tulsa economy each and every year they still want it gone as it keeps them up during that week or some other reason, funny how City's want revenue and want you to come spend money in their town and Tulsa has one of the Top 5 Racing events in the world,not just Okla., or the USA but the world , as been stated by several of Media racing members on TV who cover all those motorsports events all over the world and luckily the City of Tulsa has figured it out and has helped with some things to keep this event at the Expo. Yet the neighborhoods around there like to complain and over the years they (the event promoters) have tried to be good neighbors with the event and have implemented a curfew and other things, but still from what I hear they neighborhoods still want it to go away, even if their job is helped along by this event , that does not matter, not looking at the BIG picture in this day and time of a very tough economy and a volatile world.

 

J.D.



I am Glad to see Muskoggee back at it..You are right about Knoxvile the police have turned it into a DWI cash pot and for parking tickets and open container laws are tuff there now ,,you cant set around with a beer or you get fined..The Nationals there have outgrow the town.. Wheatland Mo is not very big of a town just a wide spot in the road anything they add there is a gain,,they only have one motel and it is for fishing trip stuff so the fisherman get pissed when a race comes to town...

I dont think they will ever stop the Chilli Bowl its a one week deal and has National Exposure plus Emmitt Hahn is a smart guy and has a history there so i think it is safe,, and he has the right people involved..The only thing i see that could stop it is if the city does something else with the location...But with all the Farm stuff and the Tulsa Drillers Baseball and the Flea Markets and the Fair Date. I think that is safe for a while to come...The Race brings in alot of money to the local motels and food places.One great thing about the Chilli Bowl is if they ever shut down the location it is a strong enough race to be moved and make it...And it was made in Tulsa...

I know Joplin Mo that is one of the main reasons it closed down people in the area complaining,,but Monett Mo is close 40 miles and takes up the slack.There just isnt very many tracks that run weekly that are in the middle of any towns anymore..Like Lincoln Neb,,they all shut down now they go to Eagle Raceway just 15 miles west of town.I know i miss the big Fair Dates with the Fair going on and a Great race to go watch with it.Economy has alot to do with alot of it..I know alot of Vendors that set up at fairs and they are not doing what they use to do money wise..Things are changing...Nevada Mo still run weekly on the edge of town but they have changes owner a few times lately.

I know what bothers me the most is the fact that alot of tracks cant or wont pay anything to the cars ,,it has become like going to the Lake with your boat..Have fun and it cost you money..Most of the lesser classes have went to this in most places..The promotors got to make money and some of them are taking full advantage of it..You are right you cant look at the big picture becuase it is so hard to make today so you try to survive the days event...


Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.


Satellite1
October 03, 2011 at 10:12:49 PM
Joined: 01/22/2011
Posts: 55
Reply

Race tracks always draw the ire of surrounding people. Look at Topeka Fairgrounds, I mean the late Topeka track. Ten O'clock curfew for the old folks home. Shawnee Speedway, the same problem. Now Heartland Park has a curfew.

One builds a new facility and of course the roads then need improved. Then what happens, people see these nice roads so the land owner subdivides his farm ground. Houses spring up and other land owners see a chance to make some money. Then the new home owners complain about the noise. The owners do not mind the jets, just the cars.

Shawnee speedway / Topeka raceway, the family that complained about the noise won and got the track shut down. I believe the code violation was the other problem, They wanted the track to back to outhouse instead of indoor plumbing. the bathrooms were installed without a permit. Then after that, about a year latter the family moved away. The track is now a pond.

People know when they move in that there is going to be noise and some fumes. The city and counties just will not stand up for the tracks. Topeka has had at least six circle tracks and three drag strips, all that is left are the two at Heartland Park.



racee14
MyWebsite
October 04, 2011 at 02:50:08 AM
Joined: 09/08/2011
Posts: 148
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Reply to:
Posted By: Satellite1 on October 03 2011 at 10:12:49 PM

Race tracks always draw the ire of surrounding people. Look at Topeka Fairgrounds, I mean the late Topeka track. Ten O'clock curfew for the old folks home. Shawnee Speedway, the same problem. Now Heartland Park has a curfew.

One builds a new facility and of course the roads then need improved. Then what happens, people see these nice roads so the land owner subdivides his farm ground. Houses spring up and other land owners see a chance to make some money. Then the new home owners complain about the noise. The owners do not mind the jets, just the cars.

Shawnee speedway / Topeka raceway, the family that complained about the noise won and got the track shut down. I believe the code violation was the other problem, They wanted the track to back to outhouse instead of indoor plumbing. the bathrooms were installed without a permit. Then after that, about a year latter the family moved away. The track is now a pond.

People know when they move in that there is going to be noise and some fumes. The city and counties just will not stand up for the tracks. Topeka has had at least six circle tracks and three drag strips, all that is left are the two at Heartland Park.



 

S1,

 

Shawnee was a great little short track. I watched midgets, sprints, modifieds, super modifieds,

and motorcycles race there. It was one of kind, and unfortunately like you said, people

that came long after it was built did it in.

I can remember a young Doug Wolfgang racing there in 1976, against Jerry Stone among

others in a great little short track battle. AMA flat track star brothers Paul and Ken Presgrove

from nearby Tecumseh, were always the crowd favorites when the motorcycles raced there

in the 1970's. Ken was killed at Louisville in a AMA race in 1970, that would be later

broadcasted on ABC's Wide World of Sports. One of the last races I saw there was in

1993 when the midgets came to the racey bullring. California's Jay Drake, who

later became a star in USAC was the winner that night. When I went past there a couple

of years ago you could still see the Sign pointing the way to the race track on Highway 40.

The Fairgrounds track had many big sprint car, and super modified races over the years.

The Jayhawk Nationals, and the IMCA sprint car races were yearly attractions.

You might remember that the first All-Star circuit of Champions raced at Topeka in 1973.

The biggest outlaws of that time all raced there that night, including Jan Opperman

in the Bogar #99, Kenny Weld in the Weikerts Livestock #29, and Bobby Allen in the 1a.

That series concept, would be repeated in just a few years in 1978 at Devils Bowl

when the first World Of Outlaws race would be held.

Ray C



Satellite1
October 04, 2011 at 09:44:55 AM
Joined: 01/22/2011
Posts: 55
Reply

The years '71 thru '74 I might have seen one or two races. The military had me then, traveling all over the place. Saw some races in Kentucky and Tennesse, car and boat. Some of the big hydroplanes in D.C. on the Potomac river.

After seventy-five I pushed when ever the Sprints came to town. May have been one of the few push trucks to have crashed at the fairgrounds. While packing the mud, the gate guard pulled a truck and trailer out in front of me. I did manage to miss the truck and trailer but doing so I got the wall. I was able to make repairs enough to continue. The one night Sammy Swindell was late getting to the track asked me to be his pusher for the night. He saw the bumper on my truck which was ten inches tall and the full width of the truck.

I still have my dads 1963 Jayhawk National trophy here at the house. Two of his Sportsmanship Trophies from Shawnee Speedway are at the Kansas Racing Museum in Chapman.

Kansas and Western Missouri were then considered to be some of the tuffest areas to win at. Many drivers came from far and wide to try their luck. The midwest was all go, yet most of the racing parts were made near the coasts.

It is a shame all the tracks going to waste. D. E.




jdsprint71
October 04, 2011 at 10:15:18 AM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
Reply

redbandana, Your right on the Chili Bowl , doubt it will go anywhere as it has been enticed to move several years back but did not, just saying people just seem to gripe about it each and every year, guess they gripe about the Fair and anything else going on at the place, seems you would see all those issues before you bought a house around that area. But one thing is you never say never , 50+ yrs. of racing at OKC Fairgrounds and some thought it had historical significance and would survive and it did not make it , but the Expo Bldg. has a better foothold than the Grandstands at OKC did.

I know back in the mid 80's the old Ada Raceway that was SE side of Ada,Okla. was shut down by people in the area complaining and went and got petitions and govt. officials on their side and the track was doomed and done.

As for the money deal that tracks pay, not sure what to say or the answer is??, in racing today, you just about have to do it for the love of the sport,Local Promoters all survive off the back/pit gate anymore for weekly shows and even on Specials , very few Specials make enough from the grandstands alone to pay the bills, said it before on here, lost art of promotion has went and gone in this day and time it seems and they have a greater amount of competition in today's world and ya have to work harder to get the entertainment dollar.

I guess insurance and other costs have increased and overhead costs of Equipment etc., seems most tracks anymore just do what they have to do to open the gates up and be able to put on a show.

About the only way I can race today is to hit the road, minimum 1 hr.15 min. to nearest track that runs Sprint Cars and just to go there and cover fuel for tow vehicle,pit passes , fuel for racing runs about $260 to pull out of the front yard and that track does not pay near that to start the A main and if you do go and run some series races they have in the state,bump on up the tow vehicle gas amount as it goes up another $50-$100 on top of the $260 mentioned and they don't pay that to start, this is not counting one tire burnt up or any parts you destroy or oil change etc.

Was interesting listening to Harold Leep on his Bio tape talking about promoters like Bud Carson/Lanny Edwards who would pay him and others to come run at their tracks, give them a $100 on top of their winnings and he said then that was a lot of money, I guess that would equal today to needing $300 or so and don't see that happening anywhere. Don't know very many promoters that pay any tow money today, guess they just cannot afford it and I always thought well their just putting money in their pocket but seeing tracks shut down here in Okla. this year , I think they maybe right , just can't afford to pay anything more than the purse listed to payout for the race.

Even ASCS Reginal shows don't pay anything ,just a bit more than what Champ Sprints run for and they travel outta state to some shows.

Even the WoO guys run for min. purse of $10,000 to win ,sure driver makes a living but I bet the owner does not make any loot at it UNLESS he has sponsors that foot the bill and pay for ALL expenses for Sponsorship exposure ,like TSR and KKR have with Bass Pro,STP , Ollie's Outlet and so on. I am sure some of the others make it go but by the skin of their teeth to make it happen and they can't win them all , again this day and time they are doing it for the love of racing I would think??.

I see more and more folks leaving the sport each year and especially in the last 2 years around Okla.and with that vicious cycle that has started this year with race tracks shutting down because of low car counts and lack of people in the stands to watch them.

What is even more concerning is what happens when the long time promoters leave the sport like Lanny Edwards, Emmett Hahn, C Ray Hall, will their Families continue to Promote and run the race tracks??. Doubt it is much fun today to do as it was back then and doubt you make near the money you did back then from what I seen from evidence of newer promoters trying their hand at it and not having success , some tracks are just a revolving door for promoters , he tries , he fails,plug another one in and see what he does, he tries, he fails , plug another one in and on and on.

J.D.



Bkcr
MyWebsite
October 04, 2011 at 11:20:51 AM
Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 599
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Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on October 04 2011 at 10:15:18 AM

redbandana, Your right on the Chili Bowl , doubt it will go anywhere as it has been enticed to move several years back but did not, just saying people just seem to gripe about it each and every year, guess they gripe about the Fair and anything else going on at the place, seems you would see all those issues before you bought a house around that area. But one thing is you never say never , 50+ yrs. of racing at OKC Fairgrounds and some thought it had historical significance and would survive and it did not make it , but the Expo Bldg. has a better foothold than the Grandstands at OKC did.

I know back in the mid 80's the old Ada Raceway that was SE side of Ada,Okla. was shut down by people in the area complaining and went and got petitions and govt. officials on their side and the track was doomed and done.

As for the money deal that tracks pay, not sure what to say or the answer is??, in racing today, you just about have to do it for the love of the sport,Local Promoters all survive off the back/pit gate anymore for weekly shows and even on Specials , very few Specials make enough from the grandstands alone to pay the bills, said it before on here, lost art of promotion has went and gone in this day and time it seems and they have a greater amount of competition in today's world and ya have to work harder to get the entertainment dollar.

I guess insurance and other costs have increased and overhead costs of Equipment etc., seems most tracks anymore just do what they have to do to open the gates up and be able to put on a show.

About the only way I can race today is to hit the road, minimum 1 hr.15 min. to nearest track that runs Sprint Cars and just to go there and cover fuel for tow vehicle,pit passes , fuel for racing runs about $260 to pull out of the front yard and that track does not pay near that to start the A main and if you do go and run some series races they have in the state,bump on up the tow vehicle gas amount as it goes up another $50-$100 on top of the $260 mentioned and they don't pay that to start, this is not counting one tire burnt up or any parts you destroy or oil change etc.

Was interesting listening to Harold Leep on his Bio tape talking about promoters like Bud Carson/Lanny Edwards who would pay him and others to come run at their tracks, give them a $100 on top of their winnings and he said then that was a lot of money, I guess that would equal today to needing $300 or so and don't see that happening anywhere. Don't know very many promoters that pay any tow money today, guess they just cannot afford it and I always thought well their just putting money in their pocket but seeing tracks shut down here in Okla. this year , I think they maybe right , just can't afford to pay anything more than the purse listed to payout for the race.

Even ASCS Reginal shows don't pay anything ,just a bit more than what Champ Sprints run for and they travel outta state to some shows.

Even the WoO guys run for min. purse of $10,000 to win ,sure driver makes a living but I bet the owner does not make any loot at it UNLESS he has sponsors that foot the bill and pay for ALL expenses for Sponsorship exposure ,like TSR and KKR have with Bass Pro,STP , Ollie's Outlet and so on. I am sure some of the others make it go but by the skin of their teeth to make it happen and they can't win them all , again this day and time they are doing it for the love of racing I would think??.

I see more and more folks leaving the sport each year and especially in the last 2 years around Okla.and with that vicious cycle that has started this year with race tracks shutting down because of low car counts and lack of people in the stands to watch them.

What is even more concerning is what happens when the long time promoters leave the sport like Lanny Edwards, Emmett Hahn, C Ray Hall, will their Families continue to Promote and run the race tracks??. Doubt it is much fun today to do as it was back then and doubt you make near the money you did back then from what I seen from evidence of newer promoters trying their hand at it and not having success , some tracks are just a revolving door for promoters , he tries , he fails,plug another one in and see what he does, he tries, he fails , plug another one in and on and on.

J.D.



In 1979 OKC ran their races on the same night as Tulsa so we did not get very many cars from there unless there was no race or rain-out or something like that. Mike Peters was driving for Larry Hill and would win the OKC championship so he did not get to race at Tulsa very much but when he did man he was fast, one night he had a sweep and started at the back of every race and this was Hahn Crawford heyday. Another night they came here to race and tore up a rear end in hot laps and their night was through. Stanly Durrett was the Tulsa promoter then, I was hanging around talking to Mike and Stanly came up and slipped some money into Larry's hand. I don't know how much it was but it and don't know if Larry gave mike any of this money or not.

 

Ray



Racing From The Past
MyWebsite
October 04, 2011 at 01:21:15 PM
Joined: 12/04/2004
Posts: 2301
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Reply to:
Posted By: Satellite1 on October 03 2011 at 10:12:49 PM

Race tracks always draw the ire of surrounding people. Look at Topeka Fairgrounds, I mean the late Topeka track. Ten O'clock curfew for the old folks home. Shawnee Speedway, the same problem. Now Heartland Park has a curfew.

One builds a new facility and of course the roads then need improved. Then what happens, people see these nice roads so the land owner subdivides his farm ground. Houses spring up and other land owners see a chance to make some money. Then the new home owners complain about the noise. The owners do not mind the jets, just the cars.

Shawnee speedway / Topeka raceway, the family that complained about the noise won and got the track shut down. I believe the code violation was the other problem, They wanted the track to back to outhouse instead of indoor plumbing. the bathrooms were installed without a permit. Then after that, about a year latter the family moved away. The track is now a pond.

People know when they move in that there is going to be noise and some fumes. The city and counties just will not stand up for the tracks. Topeka has had at least six circle tracks and three drag strips, all that is left are the two at Heartland Park.



Why would Heartland Park have a curfew. I guess the south wind blowing the noise into town?


Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Honor Flights


redbandana
October 04, 2011 at 02:13:46 PM
Joined: 01/21/2007
Posts: 337
Reply
This message was edited on October 04, 2011 at 02:18:16 PM by redbandana

In Springfield Missouri they are running 3 classes of IMCA type Modifieds,,A Mods ,,B or Sports Mods,,,and a new one called Midwestmods.. In the Midwestmods they only pay 125.00 to win..The thing about it is the low pay has kept the higher dollar guys out of it and kept a handle on it..The class has grown in 2 years to 20 or more cars per night and some nights close to 30....It has a 355 max Cub inch,stock steel rocker arms,cam has to pull limit on vacuum,,2 link rear ,with soild pull bar.And a 75.00 clam on shocks..4 value releave pistons and a value spring size rule.202 value size limit.Window in the pan so they can check the stock crank and rod limits. 2 Barrel 500 CFM holly carb,,they use go or no go gauges to keep the carbs ..This seems to be working and keeping the class equal amd it keeps the big money guys out of the class..My brother Randy ran in it this year at the young age of 63.There were 7 or 8 cars every night that could win..The only problem was with the new guys over driving if you took them into the corner to hard they would dump it in front of people.But i good driver can fix that by passing in the middle of the corner..

Alot of the A Mod guys are droping into the B Mods and crying about not being able to use there high dollor stuff.So thery have let the B Mod class get out of control..But the Amod class will died off down the road and then the B Mods will takes its place.But they are standing there ground on thuis Midwest mods class and it is growing and in asnother year will be the class with more cars then all other classes.. .


Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

jdsprint71
October 04, 2011 at 02:18:00 PM
Joined: 05/02/2005
Posts: 1336
Reply

One track I doubt will ever be ask to shut down or be torn down is Lawton Speedway, not sure if Lanny E. planned it, but he built it right next to the Lawton Airport (West Side of it) and it is less than a mile from City Limits and I have never heard of any protests or petitions to try and get it shut down, Not sure how they could make it stick with Jet Engines roaring overhead of the nearest housing edition and those Jet Engines far exceed the decibal levels of the race track.

J.D.





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