Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Actually, it gives everyone the right to voice their opinions, who are actively involved in the sport. Has nothing to do with jealousy, so much as it does with common sense. If little Johnny Throttle gets killed in a 900 hp sprint car at some track in Florida this weekend.... thats unfortunately, but inevitably, going to make the news due to sprint car racing and its ties to Tony Stewart and the unbelievable fact that the driver killed, was a child. This will then gain national attention, with lawyers and panels of so called "experts" who will debate in the media, the topic of children behind the wheel of these machines. They will then tie this to Tony Stewarts incident in a sprint car, and voila!! sprint car racing takes another black eye. After that, opprotunistic lawyers will see this as an opprotunity to bring forth a lawsuit against safety manufacturers, promotor and the track... maybe even the sponsors who contributed to the child participating. Now you have sponsors second guessing their financial commitments and liabilities across the country, a track probably closing and insurance companies raising rates or limiting coverages. At the very worst, an opprotunistic DA tries to bring negligent homicide against an owner, track or parents for allowing a child to particiapte in this kind of dangerous activity, since the child is not old enough in the eyes of the court, to make that decision on their own. By 16, they are old enough to legally operate an automobile, so at least theres an argument. The phsical size of the child is a horrible argument. What are you going to do as a promotor... put a sign out front that reads "must be this tall to drive"? Medical studies have proven a childs undeveloped brain is more prone to irreversible brain damage due to trauma, than a fully developed adults. thats common sense. By reading your response I believe your statement, you took alot of hits at 13 lol.

WHY is it that no one has answered the question?

1. How many are trying? plenty across different divisons across the country, super late models included.

2. How does it affect YOU? Reason I stated earlier. Negatively affects the sport in case of fatality or serious injury, due to the media coverage it will incur. Could change the face of the sport even more than the Stewart ordeal. This includes sponsorships, insurance costs and said track/series being sued and folding up. Affects everyone from drivers to fans.

3. Have these young drivers hurt themselves or anyone else? Yes

4. What gives anyone the right to decide what or how a family chooses to spend their money or their time? (refer to #2) Lawyers, District Attorneys and other drivers whos lives are out on the track with these children.

I know of exactly 1 young man that has attempted the big sprints in the present or recent past, so why the outrage? (refer to #2 again) the potential for disaster on many levels of our sport, if something happens.

I drive a 360 sprint and have driven against plenty of drivers that are under the age of 16. Most do a good job. But the problem I have with it is that we are talking about sprint cars here. They have 700-900 HP. These kids aren't allowed to drive a street car and we think it is ok to put them in a sprint car?  Also it affects the other drivers on the track so I do believe you can have a say in what other peoples kids do when it affects you. Another thing is kids have no idea how much work it takes for someone in the working class to afford sprint car racing. I've been wrecked under caution by a 14 year old and he probably had no idea what the price of the damage he caused was because he has never paid the bills. I have no problem with kids racing but there is a reason for different classes in racing. There is no reason they can't hone there skills in a micro or mini sprint until they are 16.

Well there ya go! You've succssfully answered all the questions.

congratulations but you forgot to say "i think" or "in my opinion" because none of the answers are backed by ant facts.

That being said I do agree their should be limits. If you lined up 1000 12/13 year olds you would be LUCKY if one could or should even be aloud to try, So why not instead of a hardlined age limit add an experience limit and a testing procedure? If you look at the rules from almost any sanctioning bodies or tracks they have such rules. these threads are usually "much to do about nothing" and mostly jealousy.

It pisses me off to see some spoiled "rich kid" roll in with all the good stuff and just ry it because he has the money but If I had the money I would be parked right next to him. YEP that makes me hypocritical.

My son has been whooping on adults since he started racing open Karts at the age of 9. He started racing sprnits at the age of 13. Now 17 he is a 2 time track champ. I've seen 25/35 year olds that shouldn't be in a race car so why aren't we talking about them as well? 

++++1^^^^^^

The facts are all out there, just no time to site sources. Look up research on youth football head trauma, lots of good medical studies in this area of trauma and the undeveloped brain. There are more than a handful of under 16 sprint car drivers (not all 410) but again, it can be found online. As mentioned earlier, one kid under 16 was hurt in a sprint car last week. I guess the only part being my opinion, is my statement that a child getting seriously injured or killed, would have a negative effect on all levels of sprint car racing. I guess I cant prove that... but common sense points to nothing good for the sport coming of that.... with ANY death for that matter, however a childs will draw more attention and contraversy.

I do agree there are the special kids who CAN maybe handle the physical and psychological skills needed to drive a sprint car... I get that. I am looking at this from a safety stand point, and a childs body is not developed. That does play a huge factor in this. Yes they can get hurt in Karts/Micro as well, just like a kid can get killed playing pee wee football... but you wouldnt throw him in the NFL no matter what skills they had, until they were mature enough physically, to handle the abuse. Its an exagerated example.... but same general idea. 

Thats a good debate, and congrats to the success he's had. I guess the differance would be, a 25 year old is legally old enough to put himself in that situation, and his body and brain is developed enough to give him the best chance at surviving a serious crash. If the 25 year old dies in a wreck, its a tragic blip on the local news. A 13 year old get killed in one, its national news and debate. Nothing about that is good for the sport. Im not saying i agree it should be, its just the world we live in now.

Back in my day some tracks had a 21yr. Old rule . And you also had to wear white pants in the infield. 

Ok then! I just googled injuries and crashes of teens in sprint cars and racing several different ways and surprise i couldn't find Anything recent. I also read a couple studies on brain injuries in youth sports and was actually surprised that football accounts for 100× more brain injuries than racing and football players take hundreds of hits to the head of 80g every season., second by half to bicycle's so there we go park the kids bike before it's too late ;-)

It must be true I read it on the internet

As far as the physical size statement.. I'll break it down for you if you read slow maybe you can follow along with a banged up motocrosser!! ===This statement is an example of how no 2 children or people for that matter are the same and grow, develop and mature at a different rate!===

Minimum age to play in the NHL 18 years old.

Minimum age to play in the NFL, players have to be the equivalent age to have played at least three years of college football (21).  As most of you know the NFL is caught up in a controversy over concussions and the problems they can cause later in life.  This NFL rule, and you can find these by googling minimum age nfl, nba, or nhl, is the highest minimum age in pro sports specifically to prevent players "who are not fully developed" from entering the league and getting seriously injured.

Minimum age to play in the NBA, at least 19 years old and one year removed from high school.

MLB, no minimum age listed but a player must be in their high school class in order to be drafted which in most cases translates to 17 or 18.  Once they enter the farm system most MLB players are not called up to the major leagues until they're at least 20.  According to the source I pulled up on google the average age for a player to get to the level where they're ready to break into MLB is 23-26.

Minimum age to drive 900hp 410 Sprint Cars on big, fast half miles, depends on how much money your folks are willing to spend to live out their dreams through their children.

This is what the writer of the article means by professionalism and the perception of the sport.  For example whenever NASCAR announcers would mention them it was in the context of something that Cup drivers did for fun or a in the context of an amature type of racing.  It's all a matter of perception.  Ironically I tried to search NASCAR Sprint Cup drivers and couldn't confirm anything but did see 18 listed on several sites.  Their short track touring series was lowered to 15, however, a heavy Stock Car on a 3/8 mile paved track doesn't even come close to Sprint Cars.

I think overall though this underscores my personal viewpoint on the young drivers.  The arguement is always about Jeff Gordon and I watched his battles with Vogler on the old Thursday Night Thunder but I think he was at least 17 or 18 by that point.  I know that he did race at a younger age but he is the exception rather than the rule. 

If the day comes that half of the field is 13 and 14 year olds with wealthy parents I'm not going to protest the decision that parents, tracks, sanctions and insurance companies make in this regard.  Personally I think if it came to that it would water down the sport in my eyes and I'd feel like I was spending my Saturday nights watching youth sports. 

People can make an arguement for the youngsters, I can't change that.  Nevertheless, I don't go to Pee Wee football or youth hockey expecting to pay more than $5 and I don't expect adult level competition.  We're always talking about bringing Sprint Car racing up to the next level and gaining the respect of the masses.  On the other side the trend seems to be that fans can't wait for the next 13 year old sensation.  My opinion is that we can't have it both ways, garner respect for the sport from the public with children as the participants.

Stan Meissner

There are a few race tracks and sanctioning organizations that do have a minimum age limit in order to participate, such as Knoxville Raceway and the NSL.

(from the rule book)

All drivers must be at least 16 years of age. Drivers under 18 years of age must have a signed
NSL parental consent form by the parents or legal guardians and said consent form must be in
the hands of the Race Director before participating of said individual will be allowed.,...z

Sprint car racing is an "at risk sport" someone wrecked you durring a caution, did their brakes fail, was the throttle stuck, did they have a bent drag link or tie rod? The fact they were 14 in your eyes is an easy out for blame! The statement that THEY have never paid the bills is BS!  Again it is an "AT RISK SPORT" meaning anytime you touch the race track YOU are at risk for ANYTHING that can happen on the track even if it is 100% someone elses fault, you know the cociquences. 

Legal age for the state participating would make the most sense and least hassle.

I think over the years there have been many creative announcers. A lost art.

Probably some announcers exagerated a little on younger drivers age to make it sound more exciting or interesting, especially back in the open cockpit days.

The Wild are playing the Panthers tonight on FSN at 7pm CST.  I wonder if coach Yeo will use that 13 year old line.  Yawn....  If he does I'll have to watch Storage Wars instead of youth hockey.

Look, I don't doubt that some of these kids can be pretty good drivers and had a lot of success in Karts and that sort of thing but I'm an adult and I prefer to spend my time and entertainment dollar watching adults compete.  Damn near every night I see these Facebook photos of Sprint Cars with captions that say things like "your sport only uses one ball?  That's cute, our sport takes two balls" and that sort of thing.  Yeah, I like Sprint Car racing because it takes two balls but the only thing I insist on is that they're covered by something more substantial than peach fuzz.  LOL

Stan Meissner

I don't think "allowing" the "state" (government) to control what people do for recreation is a good idea.

I do agree that track announcers help to make this a bigger issue than it is, I know a family with a young racer that asks the track promoters or announcers not to broadcast the drivers age because some people think it's great and some think it's a travesty.

I see them racing on a shoe string budget and finding ways to race and then listen to people say he is a spoiled rich kid but I can tell you for sure they are not rich they just find a way to make it happen because it's what makes them happy.

I don't think it's my place or anyone elses to take away what they live for no matter how jealous I may be or as one guy put it  "How much 'hair' they have" (little twisted there ewww)

I think its a case by case call.  I've seen adults in sprint cars that are wrecking balls as well as kids drive like idiots with no respect.

all of the above plus you had to have a drivers license.  If you lost your license with say a omvi you could not race.  Should a 13 yr old be able to fly an airplane because his daddy says he can fly better than most 21 yr olds?  I think it is the parents that push these young kids,  and the parent is racing thru his kid.

I'm not jealous of 13 and 14 year olds at 63.  In fact some of my grandkids are in that age group.  The first Sprint Cars I watched were the non-wing, cageless beasts of the early 60's.  Some of the things I saw happen as a kid created a great deal of respect for Sprint Cars.  True, safety improvements have come a long way but Sprints are still very dangerous machines.  Speaking of being around dangerous machines I have never driven a Sprint Car but I have hooked a Gator (F8) up to the cat like the guy under this one in the photo.  People always talk about Sprint Car racers having big balls but a Gator in AB makes them look rather tame.  There were no 13 and 14 year olds on the flight deck for very obvious reasons.  When I went to the recruiter in 1969 he asked me what I liked to do for a hobby and I said "go to Sprint Car races".  True story, LOL.  Saying that used to a recruiter used to land your ass in one of the most dangerous jobs there is.  Today based on these child drivers I wonder if they would have assigned me to the day care on the Navy base. 

Stan Meissner