Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

You're clueless. Stick to posting on message boards.

ok do me a favor and unbolt an axle and try and take it out of a car with both wheels in it

each incident will disrupt a chassis integrity differently,  in a undamaged curreny "typical" chassis removeal of the axle is almost impossible, if the tires are deflated, maybe a possibility, the real question to me is, why isnt the teather on the hub-spindle location, the odds of the axle becoming seperated from the chassis is greater, now the dillema of carrying that projectile with the driver is a tossup.. if the axle is capable of seperation from the chassis 9 times out of 10 the axle is split with a kingpinspindle and hub all in tact while bolted to the wheel, now some of the extra light weight hubs might be less durable, Indy-F1 style cars even Nascrap is tethering the hub/spindle assembly, Im not all for it, but by desighn i think the odds are greater of dilluting the problem they are trying to address, with every good idea several bad ones will arise, I guess they way i see it, I update my safety when " I" deem it worthy, understood the risks of other injury are present in the name of upgrades or additions, somewhere sometime  all us drivers draw the line and take our chances on a item, its basically just a gamble, when youve come close to dissaster you make the nessessary changes OR discontinue a product useage, I drive with a very aggressive nubbed aluminum wheel with no padding or tape, I have skinny hands and a 7/8" dia wheel, my clumsy clip on arm restraints became a issue grabbing the wheel by incident, i had restraints sewn in to the correct location and avoided the problem, Gloves! if i so much as have a pinhole in my glove it is retired from service, a pinhole becomes a freghed nasty catch, almost a guarentee it will hook the wheel nubs when I dont want it to, ive replaced gloves more than i like to admit because my wheel is aggressive and hard on them , just food for thought, introduce the items to racers let them decide if it is worthy...

I can break the hub and it comes through????? Nice try.

So both wheels are not on it then right?

the other poster said the axle wouldn't come out with both wheels on it.

No...re-read his post.

He changed his statement from what he posted the first time.

No he didn't. He has always maintained the axle won't come out if the wheels are on it.

That is providing the frame and axle are both intact.

In his first post he said an unbroken axle can't come out of an unbroken frame cuz the wheels and tires won't fit through the frame rails.

His other post asked you to try to take the axle out of the frame with both wheels bolted to it.

He seemed consistant to me. Yet you change the scenario by taking a wheel off by breaking a hub and insult him.

Then you try to insult me by lying that he changed his statement.

Stop being a little baby and just admit the a catastrophic breakage of either the frame or the axle most likely needs to occur  before the axle can leave the frame with the wheels and tires on.

That by the way doesn't lessen the potential value of a tether.

So, just to get this straight.   Your safety is more imporatant than the safety of 10 - 20 fans?   We all have seen front axles come away from cars.   We all have seen them leave the park and end up in the stands.   There are stories about them leaving the park at Knoxville and landing at the Dingus.  If this truely happened, then we are now endangering people that are not even at the race track, but that are on a public road. 

Anything that we can do for safety, we should do.   I remember back when the HANS devices were mandated and everybody was complaining about how they limit thier motion inside of the car and the drivers can not see with them on.   Now, a HANS device is as natural as a helmet or a pair of gloves.

What series mandates a hans?

I would be not be against a shorter rope. I would prefere a cable. Something that attaches at 4 points. Weld on tabs on the radiator x  would probably be the strongest. Any length that does not allow it in the cage is fine by me. the tether also should attach as close to the king pin if not the king its self.  On this point why stop at the axle what about the wings and tailtanks.   I have never seen a front axle in the stands although i have seen a few tail tanks, rear wheels, and one rear end.   

thats a bit strong of a assumption, I dont think anybody on here is negotiating his/her safety over anyone elses, as a fan you enter many many tracks that forewarn you of flying debris, its sad but true, this sport can be dangerous even for spectators.. In the same effort i think this tether dillema is aimed at both parties i dont care to runover a axle or be struck by one that could be contained to the disaster, NOW, that being said i dont want a potential  25-30lb wheel sitting on my lap either when it could have been cleared of my car during a incident, NOW do we wish as a driver i could lodge my $1200 front alxe into the stands and permenantly alter someones life?   I think your starting to get my point.. Rubberdown, were on the same page, if it is going to be tethered do it correctly and attach near the kingpins at several points, these axles are lighweight and can become a three four piece item quickley upon a impact.

also noted, the Hans is NOT required.. the neck restaint systems are commonly recomended.. some organizeations may require them but not all of them..  Also, the Hans went through a difficult time of evolution, the  changes at the time was the capability of the tethers to allow a range of movement, now, its almost traditional style on all neck restraints, again i cannot be vocal enuff, this rule needs to be hashed over and made more specific before mandated, I think its headed in the right direction, but strong arming racers into a potential hazzard isnt effective either.. will you shake the hands of a racer that utilized a tether on thier car during incident?, will you purchase all cars in the nights events one?  99% of the fans see a wreck they hope the driver is ok, and they go on enjoying thier night,  understand what im saying

I stand by my post. I guess it depends on how you interpret it. "Only" to me means "only". And YES , an unbroken axle can come out of the frame without the frame being broken.

Sorry for thinking differently I guess.

As a fan, I expect the sanctioning bodies and the car owners to do everything possible to keep the cars as safe as possible for the fans.   Your assumption that it is dangerous to be a sprint car fan and that the fans must understand this is somewhat scary.   If we are to continue to grow the sport, we have to get new fans.   If the fans think that there is a good chance of injury, they will not come to the races.    This is espically true of new fans or casual fans.   I would hope that you would be a little more professional in your attitudes about fan safety.

Your logic on your own safety confuses me.   You state that you don't want to run over an axle or be struck by one that comes out of another car.   However, you also state that you don't want a 25 pound wheel sitting in your lap.   Do you realize that with no tether that the potential for all of these to happen are possible?   Just because your axle leaves your car does not mean it will not bounce back into your car.   With no tether, you are at odds of a tire being in your lap from a compitors car or from your own car.   With a tehter, you would only have to worry about the front wheel of your car.  Not of someone elses car.  By your own logic, you are arguing for a tether system.

Finally, if you think you have a better tether design, please put it in the car.   I am sure the rule  only mandates the limited amount of tethers neccessary.   If you have a better idea,  put the tether in that the rules state and then put the tethers in that make you feel safe.  When it comes to find a way to build a faster car, the owners are always looking for improvements.   Everyone should have the same attitude about safety as they do about going fast.

ok, your a simple mind, percive my thoughts and ideas as you wish, continue to "float" over what is stated, you wish to argue a observation from a fans perspective,  dont think you are completly digesting what observations and third party opinions I can hold weight to .. i attend sprint races as a fan too, i also notice signs and ticket stub vouchers that state the obvious dangers that are quite honestly (present everywhere)  if i attended a basketball game i sure could take a elbow to my nose while stuffing my face full of popcorn,  so, does that mean fan bring helmets,or plyers wear elbow pads, because the casual bystanding fan has the priority over anything else?   lets be honest, the drivers at the races you attend have the major possibility of injury.. the casual/diehard/rookie fan does not!, its sadly a dillema of fan injury many wish not to beat the topic of. its simply not attractive. and for newbies, absolutly not..  my OBSERVATION  of a tether ancored to the center of a 50" or 52" front avle permitts the posibility of the wheel in the lap of the driver, or more possible a broken tierod quivering inches from my face because a P.O.S tether wouldnt clear the axle of my car!.. you should already understand the tethers will be approved for such, if you think my backyard device is better and i put it on my car it will still not be "approved" for tech, that is my arguement, this system needs time to be tested to find its usefullness and adapted as so.. dont be foolish.. im a driver.fan,owner , and head wrench. i can stand my ground on my opinions and back them up 100%  thanks for your intrest in the sport. the tethers may help somewhere sometime. i really think youve taken your trip to heart to much.

It has to be approved, so far only one is as far as I know. I have been told of another that was not approved that attached to the king pin. Like everything else someone is making money on the deal.

exactly, quite honestly a piss poor desighn, that could easily be made better prior to mandating it, But, im a competitor not a politician, the tethering of a large item such as the front axle will be a difficult one, sure the axle(majority of it??) can be contained to the damaged chassis, does that validate it is a correctly safe piece? who are we trying to accomidate? our obsevation is , lets say it injured the driver on the backstreach of a track that has absolutly no grandstands ect..  kinda like a catch 22.. sure it could perform as they wish, contain the axle to the chassis, no fans injured ect, i hope others on here start to understand the possibilities of the incident going the other direction too, and the driver being injured, sure nothing is for certain, anything can happen,  ANYTHING!  my safety is acted upon my gamble of preperation. i like to think i have a pretty safe car for myself and for other competitors, as a driver you constantly look at other drivers items and hope they withold thier function, wheels,suspention,lightweight brackets,tires, bodypanels the list goes on and on, my observations are not reactive nor proactive, im percieving this issue as a third party, i do wish the item is graduated to a usefull item that accomidates everyone. at this point in time i believe it is a little fan bias, i guess thats fine, as drivers we take more risks than anyone will ever know, guess thats just the way the ball bounces..

dirtdevil,

"...my OBSERVATION  of a tether ancored to the center of a 50" or 52" front avle permitts the posibility of the wheel in the lap of the driver, or more possible a broken tierod quivering inches from my face because a P.O.S tether wouldnt clear the axle of my car!..."

Just to be clear on this, the tether system that Knoxville Raceway has tried and approved uses (2) tethers, (1) on each side of the chassis. They attach to the chassis uprights where the front motor plates attach to. They extend along the lower radius rod and attach to the front axle just outside of where the radius rods attach to the axle.

Over the last (40) years or so that I have been attending sprint car races I have witnessed many crashes where the front clip has broken away from the chassis. The crashes I have seen, the front uprights where the motor plates bolt to have remained in place.

I appreciate your concern for driver safety and just wanted to make sure we all understood how these tethers will be attached...Z

motor uprights are in the area of approximately 24" ( im assuming front rather than midplate loc fo your sake  from that point to the RF or LF tire, in the event the axle is sheered, the items obviously are within striking distance of the driver.. a common radius rod lenght is 21"-23" due to triangulation to the kingpin (lets say that is the loc of second point of attachment) the lenght of the tether will be longer.. if the axle is sheered on one point of the kingpin loc most common, a 37" dagger is present, with a 40" tierod possibly , the lenght of debris following the cars direction will/can almost touch the rear bumper.   I rest my case.