Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I bet you complained when rollcages were mandated on sprint cars. Using your logic, it just added weight and expense, and besides, not that many drivers were getting killed anyway.

Wolfgang's  situation  would not have happened if he didn't go for that xtra lap after the yellow came out. 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but if I remember right he was running his sprint car on a paved oval when he crashed.  Just FWI, it matters

So?  Wolfgang's situation would not have happened if he had stayed home that night. What's your point?

My point is, after this happened and all the lawsuits were settled woo made it a official rule. When that yellow flag come out during hot laps or on track racing you as the driver MUST shut the power down. If it is deemed you do not, you get 1 warning, and I believe that mite be 1 warning for the year. The penalty is you lose your time and you start tail. It's been years, so have things changed, I do not know.  Wolfgang was a very lucky man in that situation and I hated to see what happened. If it wasn't for the help he received in getting out it could have been much much worse. This was before 2 way communication and it was the last of Ted Johnson taking the tour on asphalt.

There was the Mike Houseman fire at Knoxville, although not a WoO show.   He suffered some burns even though Knoxville's fire crew got him out of the car quickly.   I believe there is video on YouTube of a very fiery Donny Schatz crash too.   

Alum 427 so a discussion about on board fire suppression systems gets twisted into a discussion about caution flag rules. Lol. Good response.

Fact is these systems are perfect in a scenario where the driver is unconscious or trapped. Example the wolfgang fire. 

I have to laugh at the cost argument. Teams will pay thousands for titanium bolt kits but can't afford a safety feature. 

I can think of several times at world of Outlaw races where having a on board fire extinguisher would have been beneficial for a drivers at least two times at Knoxville Mike Houseman fire Aaron Berryhills fire then we have Donny Schatz fire out in California I don't know if there were any other Fires at World of Outlaw races I know I have seen many other Fires at other race tracks I know I seen a big fire at Jackson Minnesota I've seen several Fires at USAC races and then there was the Wise fire last year and yes the car was still on fire when it landed on its side and if he had been knocked out he would have been in trouble and if somebody would have got there and he was knocked out they could have hit the Fire Bottle well they were trying to get him out an onboard fire extinguisher is a very good idea especially since the World of Outlaws do not have a traveling safety team with them if they had a safety team with them it might be a different story but they don't when you go to tracks like Knoxville or Jackson Motorplex or Husets you know there's good safety teams there and good fire equipment but some of these other tracks it's very questionable on what they have for safety and Fire Equipment how many tracks have you seen somebody with a little one and a half lb or 5 lb fire extinguisher and a guy in t-shirt and shorts put out a fire put the fire extinguishers in the cars and be safe they don't cost that much and when you buy an extinguisher to put in your car by a good one not some rinky-dink thing buy something that's going to put out an alcohol fire when you have a full load of fuel on

Ford your a professional ass...have a good day sir...you must be proud of yourself as a 2 yr old would be. Jerk.

The system is not $600, more like $1200 and then the teams will need a second system for the backup car. Not to mention these systems must be tested by a certified tech. With the smaller teams already pushing their budgets, here's another added expense.

At the end of the day whether it's a race car driver or any of us driving our cars, we have to do what we think is best and safest for us, not someone else thinking what’s best and safest for us. There's already enough of that being crammed down our throats. Now some of you here on HH are completely ok with this and it's very obvious you all show zero signs of having a gag reflex, so this mandatory fire suppression system crap is right down your alley !!

The next thing we're going to hear from all you yea sayers is " Why are the car counts so low !?! "

<<  The system is not $600, more like $1200 and then the teams will need a second system for the backup car. Not to mention these systems must be tested by a certified tech. >>

Also need to add in the cost/time of the installations....either by the crew or a 3rd party.

I'm still trying to ascertain some analytics regarding the frequency of the problem they are trying to solve.  In other words, letting history in the WOO series (this is a WWO mandated rule change) help at least guage the future benefit.  For example, in the last 25 years how many burn injuries would have been avoided in WWO sanctioned races if there was fire suppression?   I'm all for safety when truly warranted.  Yes, roll cages were warranted!  Since I don't know the past numbers, I really can't make a call in my mind yet on this mandated rule change where almost all teams/drivers haven't felt it necessary to implement/install in the past.

It's possible there are other factors that we are unaware of. Like most issues, there are always two sides of the store. 

• Could insurance be driving this? 
• Why doesn't the Outlaws have it's own safety team?
• If they did have their own safety team, how many people would that require?
• If they do have their own safety team, what are the costs, and do they assume additional liability and therefore higher premiums
• Could the WOO contract with someone like Med Star if a local track did not meet the basic requirements? 

I don't like mandates, but I think the world of outlaws can enforce this and will. However I don't think local drivers should be required to do so, however I can see that a local would have to at WOO events. 

Keep It Real

Dougs lawsuits were that track never provided a safety crew for the schedualed practice and a steering release was made with plastic and it melted and they could not get in loose.  As  I remember in the wreck his knee hit the fuel line and broke it off and the fuel just kept dumping into cockpit,  A driver at Knoxville at home took his tail tank off.  He was holding it in his hands when static electrity ignited it.  Odd things happen.

(( Dougs lawsuits were that track never provided a safety crew for the schedualed practice))

Hopefully future drivers will just not race at any tracks they don't deem safe.  Lawsuits are too late to possibly matter in some situations. 

If the local street stock and b-mod teams can afford these systems for their cars (as they do at a lot of track), than sprint car teams can. And if 1200 is making or breaking whether they can race, then they probably shouldn't be racing anyway. 

A fire suppression system is a good idea, but it doesn't need to be mandatory. Let drivers choose their own level of risk. Freedom of choice trumps safety in all instances. 

<<  Let drivers choose their own level of risk. >>

Up until the recent mandate, they did just that for fire suppression.  

<<  Could insurance be driving this? >>

As someone with a 31 year insurance carrier in Underwriting with a major carrier, this could be partially or entirely true.  If insurance company underwriters feel there is an intolerable level of risk, they might mandate rule change or else.  The or else would be higher liability insurance premiums (or maybe cancel coverage) for the WRG to pay.  And since the WRG is a for profit company....well they create the mandate and move on with things.

don't think we can put a price on a life.  good idea moving forward...

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

The hell with roll cages. hans.seat belts. safety seats.  Drivers do not always make a wise choice.  I went to a usac midget race the last year they could run without a cage.  The only car with out a cage went end over end and driver was killed.  His wife and child were setting right ib front of me.  Alot of these old time hall of fame drivers refused to wear seat belts.  Ted Horn was one that died this way.  

I do not know about usac but Knoxville never required bladders till about  1989.  I rember in  about 1988 I was watch races at Knoxville and a car without a bladder with unpainted tail, you could see the alcohal level in tail tank.  I could be a little wrong on dates but it is very  close