Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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i'm not sure almost all nascar teams use a carbon seat. hendrick motorsports REQUIRES its drivers to use them because hendricks MAKES THEM because hendricks makes the seats and is trying to force nascar into making them mandatory. nascar has not done that. when kyle busch ran for hendrick he had to use a carbon seat. when he left hendrick he went back to butler-built seats. i would say kyle could run any seat he wants, and it seems he does. in regards to the carbon seats not deflecting in a crash and being too solid, i brought that up in a conversation with jeannie butler and she noted that was one of her arguments to nascar about making the carbon seat mandatory.

to indy and beyond!!

Mr. Realsprint,

Watch the Nascar race tomorrow (If you can stay awake.) and watch the in car cameras and please let me know how many drivers are sitting in Carbon Fiber seats.(Jimmy Johnson,Jeff Gordon, Mark Martin, Dale Jr., Denny Hamlin, Joey Logano, Sometimes Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, Jeff Burton, Sam Hornish, Brad Keselowski, Kurt Busch, Scott Speed, Reed Sorenson, Kasey Kahne, Tony Stewart, Elliott Sadler, AJ Almendinger, Greg Biffle and on and on.......)

I look forward to your reply.

Member of this message board since 1997

By the way, F1 is the most safety conscience racing club out there. There is a medical car with a trauma team that follows the cars on the first lap (when most wrecks happen) of every race. Also, have you ever heard of the FIA safety ratings??? All F1 teams must submit complete cars for pre-season impact testing where the cars are destroyed to prove that they're safe. He is a graphic testament....The injuries suffered? A sprained ankle...

Member of this message board since 1997

half of those guys run a carbon seat because they are forced to by their owner because their owner makes the seats and is trying to force nascar to make them mandatory. some of the others use them because they are light and it allows them to add weight in other places to help handling.

to indy and beyond!!

i am making an aluminum crash helmet for you. it is made out of a 6oz soda can. sorry if it is a little too big.

to indy and beyond!!

Are you sure about the weight comparison between the two seats?

Buzz - most drivers use them because they are proven to be safer and do not transfer as much heat as the aluminum, not because they are lighter. The Nascar composite seat specs are so stringent that it forces the seat to be heavy. I believe that Nascar has set a minimum weight on composite seats to be roughly 45lbs. I think the Nascar approved aluminum seats are as much as 20 lbs lighter than the approved carbon seats. I also think the team owners would much rather pay the price for aluminum vs. carbon..... Aluminum seat cost = $3000.00. Hendrick carbon = $13,000.00

Regards,

MonkeyBoy!

Member of this message board since 1997

You are sort of right. Any improperly designed seat weather it is Carbon fiber or aluminum can be a dangerous thing.

The first thing is to have a very strong and rigid seat. This is to control you and contain you within the seat. Just like your race car, when it is out of control it is severe trouble, when your body is flailing around in the cockpit loosely you are in severe danger.

Once you have the seat strong enough you use foam (The right foam, not just any foam) to absorb the energy.

The NASCAR teams have for the most part changed to the Hendrick seat. This is a carbon fiber seat that uses an SFI 45.2 foam insert. The teams have switched to this as it has gone through extensive testing of 90G's plus. To get that strong, it is on the heavier side but the seat has also done things to improve other situations like the geometry of the seat belts, shorter lengths of the belts and a standardized way to mount the seat. This all came about when there were no standards for an aluminum seat.

Randy Lajoie has been the biggest propenent of an SFI rated seat. Something that shows you build a seat to the standard in the industry, not substandard. This is standard 39.1 is what NASCAR will be requireing for 2011. It is to this standard that the Hendrick seat must pass as well and does. Along with three aluminum seat manufacturers.

The only NASCAR teams that I am aware of that are not using the Hendrick seat in Cup are the Roush teams and some of the smaller budget teams. In the Nationwide series it's alot less and the same with the truck series. It all pertains to the size of their budget. I'm sure as time goes on and drivers are changed that these seats will make their way there as well.

To address Monkeyboy's (engineered to deflect). The SFI 39.1 spec is this:

With the seat mounted per manufacturer's specs, the seat cannot deflect more than .500 of an inch and has to rebound .250 with 4,000lbs of load at the hip, 3,000lbs of load at the shoulder, and 2,000lbs of load at the head.

The next step, and this is what is trying to be brought to the short tracks is 39.2. This again per the manufacturer's mounting spec's seat cannot deflect more than .500 of an inch and has to rebound to within .250 of an inch with 3,000lbs of load at the hip, 2,000lbs of load at the shoulder, and 1,000lbs of load at the head.

I hope this helps shed some light on the subject.

Aaron

Actually saw earlier this year in the Roush shop that atleast Greg Biffle is using Hendrick seats.

Look at Elliot Sadler's wreck at Pocono. He even credits the Hendrick seat along with the COT and HANS device for walking away from it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=5435268

Now that is Nascar and impacts are different but considering Lucas Wolfe has taken 2 bad tumbles and walked away they can't be that bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouk6_OExIGU

The worst thing about it is there is no magic bullet when it comes to safety other then not going out there and racing. Thankfully for us in the stands there is people willing to drive these cars at ungodly speeds and take that risk for their and our enjoyment..

Yes George, that is correct. Some of the drivers make that special request like Greg.

The best thing to remember is that safety is a game of odds, the more things you can do to stack the odds in your favor the better off you will be.

As pointed out, you're making an all to general statement about carbon fiber. Rigidity can be greatly varied by the arrangement and composition of the fibers in each ply of material.

See image below of CARBON FIBER wings on Boeing's 787. The wing tips are deflected over 25 feet upward from resting position, representing 150% of ultimate load expected in service. Rigid?

http://www.compositesworld.com/cdn/cms/787_wing_load_test_web.jpg

My concern about he carbon seats are they are not custom sized. Being a big kid, my LaJoie seat is unique to my size and fits like a glove. Are the foam inserts in the carbon seats enough to compensate for a long torso, broad shoulders, etc?

also, the carbon seats I saw in PA last year seemed to be engineered for road racing and sat at what I considered an odd upright, almost forward leaning angle. Do the drivers notice this?

Yes, the insert will do just that. The SFI 45.2 Foam that we use is also the same that we use in drag racing and in alot of the IRL cars. This foam expands and fills the void where you are not. Randy and the guys build great seats and do this in their seats at your request.

There is a difference in the foams that are used. The older design is little styrofoam beads that you would put in a bag and squish down, pur the resin into it and pull it into a vaccum. This works, but the life is not as long. And being in a sprint car where accidents happen more often, with this type once you do wreck, you will have to do it again. This is because you have just displaced the air inbetween or in the beads, once you do that you have lost it's effectiveness. The SFI 45.2 foam does not react this same way.

I rolled one down the back strait and over the turn 3 wall one time.I had an alum. seat,and broke the wields on both sides of the bottom of the seat,and bent the right rib shield strait.

I only weigh 165lbs.,so the momentum of the flip was fast enough,and long enough,to stretch things.

I still stay with the alum.,but bigger shoulder protection.

Lajoie

www.joieofseating.net