Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
Moderators: Racing From The Past

Since I got started I will finish what I know about Mike Peters. I got hooked up with Mike and Norman Gumm in early 1975. Norman was my uncle but he lived in Wichita and I in Tulsa. My family was't close and we did't know each other. I introduced myself at the first race of the year in Tulsa, Norman said that they were planning to race most of the season at Dodge City, but he would like for me to help with his 3 race cars when they came to Tulsa. Mike took the points lead after the 2nd night and they decided to race the rest of the year at Tulsa on Saturday night. Mike wouldd get off abut noon on Fridays and he and Norman woul drive to Dewey. We all hit it off pretty good and I wound up helping them on abut 55-60 of the 80 races that they went to in 1975. I have already gone over the '75 season. Norman was always worried about the top of Mike's Helmut sticking above the roll cage, he had Jelly raise the back of the cage 4" during the winter of 75-76. Norman put a 302 Ford V-8 into the 71 that winter. He had a pair of Gurney-Westlake heads on it and they were to pretty to race. Jerry Wilson had to make a manifold for the heads to take a 4 barrel carb. They were made for 4 2-barrel webers. That engine burnt a piston on the second night of the season and we ran a chevy the rest of the year. Mike had a good season with top 10 finishes at Tulsa and 81 and the championship at Dewey. I don't remember how many features were won but I think it is fair to say at least 20 were won during the year. In 1977 the team was starting to crack a little bit with a breakup for a few races with Larry Ring driving the 71 for a race or two, but Mike and Norman got back together. Mike had a bad flip at Tulsa when he ran over a tire that came off of Jr.Taft's car, he was able to walk away. Glen mayer of Tulsa Had to replace the front Clip on the 71. At the last race of the season, A NCRA feature at he big Tulsa track, he was running very good, winning the a heat race and racing Jerry Stone for 3rd in the feature. They started to lap Jon Johnson and Johnson lost a muffler and wrecked Mike and Stone. That was the end of the original 71, it was wrecked pretty bad. 1977 was about like 76, with a Dewey championship and top tens at Tulsa and 81. Norman sold the car it to Danny McCuthen and he finished 2nd in the modifieds at Tulsa in 1978. Norman moved to Tulsa that winter and ordered a new Stanton car for Mike. He and Mike went to pick it up and Norman said it was the ugliest peace of .... that he had ever seen with the big whale tail and hood that Stanton used. He got it back to Tulsa and had Bob and Billy McCutchen put a better body on the car. Norman got pneumonia about the same time and was late getting the car ready for The '78 season. Mike won his first super NCRA feature at Dewey in may of '78. They had been together for about 4 years and finally broke up in September of '78 I think that Norman was tired of racing, he was getting a divorce and just wasn't very easy to get along with. Mike started driving the 112 car out of western KS and they came down enough to get him another top 10 finish at Tulsa. Dee Zelmer drove the 71 the rest of the year. Mike got hooked up with Larry Hill and won the 78 winter-nationals At OKC. That was the last year that I helped on race cars.

Ray

I have a question , back then who were the drivers who showed up with a Helmet bag to just drive, were Leep and Hahn 2 of those? , was Mike as well, I was around but guess I did not pay much attention then to that aspect of it?

I believe Terry Uhleing of Ks. who ran the Carpenter 88 was a hired shoe and you would know this David , Howie Sewell was another hired shoe with Suchys 76 car or am I incorrect on that.David did anyone who drove Pat's cars ever wrench on them during the week or was it strictly show up and drive it?

I have said this before, they were running for more money back in the 70's with NCRA and their payout and contengency money as well as the weekly shows such as OKC , Tulsa ,Etc. where % of crowd count played into the factor of payouts on weekly shows , I guess you could make some extra money racing back then with building your own stuff motors ,cars etc. and getting pieces out of salvage and modifying it yourself or am I way off on that theory of extra money made back then.

I can tell you one thing for sure , no money to be made at all now in this day and time, unless you have someone footing the bill completely and you take home all the winnings, just do it for the fun and love of the sport and hope you break even with getting to and from the track and that is IF you don't tear anything up.

Ray,...This is the first time I have seen Dee Zellmer's name on this site. I know him well & he worked for me at the station in 1960. At the end of 1961, I sold the flathead car to someone in southwest Missouri (I think it was Bill Hoffman) and Dee started his career driving that car. The last time I talked to him a few yearsm ago, he had moved to The Lake of the Ozarks area. He still had a Nance car that he had bought from Nance. Said it has a Edmonds body on it. I tried to call him but the phone number was not in service. ....Luther

Luther, There is a picture of Dee Zelmer on page 197 in High Plains Thunder, he is in the 10 car that Mike Peters would drive Later. I have another picture of him somewhere in another 10 car.This car was blue with yellow trim and a tail section with a spoiler on it like the Zink car that Buddy Cagle drove. The cars I think were called the Bubs or Dubs speed shop special or something like that. David would probaly know.That car was parked sometime in 1978 and Dee and Norman got together afteer Mike quit. Dee drove some in this area in 77-78.

Luther didn't alot racers use the Morris Minor bars?

Ray

Dee Zelmer 10 and Leamon English at Tulsa

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

The number 5 car behind Dee is Leamon English. Thats the car that Del Torrance and Jackie Howerton built. The number 1. Emmett Hahn drove it. Then it was sold to Wayne Wisley and Al Lemons drove it in 1974. Not sure if it was the car that Wayne drove at Hutch in the 74 race. Wayne can be seen pulling the car out of the fire. In 1975 Jack Wickett drove the car and in 76 Lemon bought it and drove it for a while. I left Tulsa in 83 to join the Navy and not sure if Lemon retired driving that car or he put it away and drove another car. Funny, my memory is better when cars were special and each one was different in there own way. Like going to Tulsa then. Once they seemed to become carbon copies of each other, sort of lost interest. My particular favorite Super Modified was Shot Hamptons 94. Loved that car.

mlcole

Ray,,, Thanks for the info on Dee. I think the Forshee car that Sparky Carver bought in1968 (Sparky numbered it 87) had Morris Minor bars on it. I think Al Weiland built one in the early 60s that Jack Belk drove. I am not sure they were M-M but do know they were from a passenger car. The Morris Minor bars were pretty easy to find and ready to use. They were cast & not machined. ...Luther

Luther, did'nt you say once that Grady Wade drove for you? Did any other of our local drivers drive for you? Were you at the OKC winternatioals in 1969 that Bob Williams won in Al's 37? I enjoy all of your comments.

Ray

Ray,...Yes Grady drove my car twice that I recall. It was at Topeka 1/2 mile in 69. He won the main, Dale Reed drove the T Coipe during warm ups at Topeka 1/2 mile in 66 when Ray Lee was late getting to the track. Dale was running it so deep in the turns I found myself walking on tip toes trying to help him get through the turns. He and Grady were together that night. Grady drove it the same way when he drove but it was the sprint painted white with red trim three years later.

Ray Lee Goodwin starting driving for me the 66 season (Jack Belk drove 1/2 of 64 & all of 65 & deceided not to run the north circuit) Ray Lee wanted to run sprints & I wasn't to crazy about running without a cage. Every chance he got, he would go run a USAC or IMCA sprint race. I had several week ends with other drivers on a temporary deal. He convinced me to sell the T Coupe & build a sprint. He even found a buyer. But he continued to go run USAC when he got a chance.

In 68 he started driving for Swenson (24 car out of Linclon) but came back & drove mine some in early 69. He went back to the 24 car about mid season. I did not have a steady driver the rest of that season & sold the car after winning the Oklahome City IMCA race in Oct 69 with Dick Sutcliffe driving. I did mechanic the #26 car that Roy Hibbard was driving in 70, the #26 car is on page 32 of High Plains Thunder. On page #33 is the T Coupe car I built & ran in 66 & 67 with a different body with Bob Williams in it. It is also on 56 & 57.

I was not at the OKC Winternationals in 69, only at the IMCA Sprint race with Sutcliffe.....Luther

Luther, I doubt that any other car in our area was a successful for so many seasons and different drivers than your coupe. Do you know wher the remains are and if you could restore it what body style would you put on it?

Ray

A family member told me one of the Wisely supers that was in the fire is actually buried in there back yard where they lived at the time.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

To All,

Been some good reading last couple of days. Luther I was also delighted to see Dee mentioned here, I knew him vaguely from driving the DON'S SPEED SHOP #10 owned by Bub Kearney, they came to OKC and Tulsa and raced alittle, about the time Dee quit driving for Bub, Roy Bryant did a short stint in the #10 followed by MP. Shortly after this I started maintaining the #10 in OKC as Bub and Larry Hill had partnered up. Dee would ride down to OKC or to NCRA races with Bub and I was able to get to know him better, he was a good guy!!

MP and I ran the shit out of that old #10, Bub Kearney was one of the best guys to race with and Hill was one of my best friends, we won a lot of races at Tulsa with that car, would have won more but we broke a ton of engines but if we didn't break it was usually between Hahn, Crawford, Leep, Stone or us.

The #10 was one of my favorite cars that I worked on, it was a Nance Space Frame 4-Bar. it had 4 differant length torsion bars,28" LF, 29" RF, 30" LR & 32" RR. We used Nance's bars and Carerra shocks all straight valve until we got the hot set-up 5008 RF & 5008 LR that was the first time I realized how important shocks were, we put those things on and it made the car a ton smoother. We cut it up a time or 2 over at B&T's and changed some bracing in the frame and the rear radius rod length's, motor hgt & angle. We ran a Lenco and Crowerglide for a long time then put a Lakewood and in-out box in it with a mini-clutch. This combination really zipped the motor up as it was alot less spinning wgt.

Had the privilage to get to run that car at the fair in OKC with Johnny Parson Jr. driving and ran 4th off the back, MP had hurt himself bad at Knoxville during the Nationals that year so Hill had JP come in and drive for this one time only.

 

 

Ray,...The T Coupe ran in the midwest 5 seasons and was sold to Baily Bros Speed Shop in West Sacramento after the 70 season. Gary Hanna delivered the car to them at the Western World race in Pheonix late that fall. They were having some trouble with handling in the early part of 71. John Cunningham (son of Jack Cunningham whom I sold the car to) told me they called him since Hanna had made some changes to the suspension. Baily Bros changed it back to original settings. They ran the 71 season and the car was in a multi car wreck on the Sac mile late that year. They took the parts & built a 4 bar sprint. (I have a picture of that sprint). They called John Cunningham & offerred to ship the chassis old chassis to him. He declined but told me years later that he would liked to have had it. If I had the chance to rebuild or replicate, I would definitely go with the coupe body. A friend ask me last Sept at John Laynes racing picnic if I would like to replicate it. He would like to be involved. It would make a nice nostalgic show car. I tried for several years to find the remains of any of the cars I built to restore. The only ones that may remain are the 8 th & 10 th cars. I have even tried to find them. The next time you see Grady Wade, ask him if ever drove any of my cars. I'd rather he tell you about it.

DGM 7620,... I sent Dee an email yesterday & it has not been returned today indicating he has received it. I told him about this site & that I had tried to call him. Hope to hear from him. He quit working for me to start working for Skelgas and later ran their plant in Lee's Summit, Mo. He worked for Skelgas & retired from there. He then drove a tour bus for Kincaid for a few years then started pulling travel trailers for a firm in northern Indiana to the west coast. He has since completely retired living near Lake Of The Ozarks. The next time you talk to Dee, ask him about the ride he took in a tilt cab Ford when a gas leak blew the cab off the truck while he was going down the road. It was on the KC evening news !....Luther

As for what happened to Shane Carson, here's a shot of him in an SST sprint show at Grand Prairie, TX. He went from 16th to 5th claiming he hit everything BUT the pace car! Don't worry Shane, if I see that pace car, I'll give her a swift kick for ya!LOL

A Tim Alwyn photo

By contrast, you can see he's been at it a while and has driven for the best. Pretty cool

Luther, I received my my latest isuue of "Sprint Car & Midget" today and it has agreat interview with Joe Saldanna in it. He talks about Ray Lee Goodwin, Dick Sutcliffe , Gordon Wooley, the Weld family and about the dirt roadsters and the start of power stering on sprint cars. You will really enjoy this article.

Ray

Ray,...thanks for the heads up, I will get one & get 1 for Ray Lee. I talk to him often. Joe Saldana & Wooley were good friends when Joe first got started. Gordon used to spend time at Joe's when he was at Linclon. When Greg Weld had Don Brown build the roadster for USAC before the 66 season, Joe Saldana had one built & Don Brown built one for himself. The roadster Saldana owned had 2 or 3 owners after he went USAC. Bill Smith(of Speedway Motors) finally ended up with & it is being restored. It is John Laynes basement where we had the Layne Picnic last Sept. The year I was inducted in Knoxville's Raceway Hall of Fame in 1994, I sat at a table with some fans from Ill & one of them said he had Greg Welds roadster & shows it at meets. He was a circuit judge. ..

Understand Knoxville has two hall of fames. One is Knoxxville Raceway Hall of Fame of which I am a member & the other is National Sprint Car Hall of Fame. I am not a member of it & don't expect to be.......Luther

To All,

Been a long couple weeks, lot of sad things & a few positive things, I'm going to touch on a few of them.

Very saddened by Carol's passing, I can say we were far from being friends, we were competitor's in the first degree and I don't mind telling everybody HE TAUGHT ME ALOT about being a competitor, to never give up no matter how bad his cars just handed you your ass. He was an inovator extreme, always thinking of ways to go faster. Most of my head butting with Carol was with the 100" cars in the late 70's & early 80's we had tons of issues but what a lot of people don't know was we had a couple of common bonds OJ & Stan Constant. OJ was like my son and when he broke his feet at Tulsa Carol,Debi,MP & I all took turns staying with OJ, when OJ was seriously injured in a car wreck a few years later we all came together to care for him again. With Stan he and Carol were very good friends during this time and Stan even to this day is one of my best friends. In '82 at the Winter Nationals in OKC HtD crashed the Old Mans car bad on the first day in the Heat Race we were done for the day, First Person to come over and offer anything he had was Carol, I learned a big lesson from him that day!!! I was so very proud of Carol & Herb when they won the 1st USAC/NCRA race those USAC guys treated us like step children but in the end that year the step kids kicked USAC's ass!!!!Carol would later build what I think was the best 100" car design ever and even though we were winning a ton of races with the Rich & Gambler cars the car that Stan had was far smoother. I was unhappy when he left the Speed Shop it was if somebody had taken part of my drive away and now with his passing I can say I have truly lost an OLD FRIEND.

The Leep Jr race at Ada this past weekend was pretty neat. The sprint racing was great and it was neat to see the vintage cars that were there, it's to bad that the rain date conflicted with someother vintage meets so the count was down but there were enough cars there to make you salivate alittle, I was able to see Brian drive one of Gary Coles and my cars, it was a 2 tone blue #35 when Gary raced it and me 1 time at OKC and I tried to knock the wall down!!!! Was happy to see Gary there and his son Jerry who has worked on DJ's cars for ever but what was more fun was watching Jerry getting into DJ's car to mud pack the track that was a hoot!!!!!

Brian you did a good job with the limited resources you had to work with putting the vintage deal together I think if mother nature cooperates next year it will be even better, I know Donnie Bishop is beating me up already to build a vintage car.

The OCRS race couldn't have been much better, it was almost like an old time Super race with all of that rubber flying around. I would have liked the results better if there had been no yellows at the end as DJ lost 4 spots in 2 laps with the tires wore out. Frank Dittman did a wonderful job winning, beating the best OCRS had to offer. Everyone of those drivers should be proud though they put on a hell of a race in the name of a very stand up guy HAROLD LEEP JR!!!!!!

Hope to get over to the Tulsa Legends Lunchon this month, off to TMS Wednesday for the NASCAR TRK Race.

David,

Hate that I never got to sit down with Carol Nance and just talk about a few things he knew, things we may never know now. It is a true loss for everyone in this thing.

Great to see you guys out there. Saw Gary Cole there as well, sorry I didn't get to talk with him, things were soooo busy down there for me. Driving and armchair promoting at the same time is a busy job!

Anonymous Donor called me this evening and had some great input as to some things we need to think about.Thankfully he doesn't have a fleet of vintage race cars, but he did race back in the day. So, I'm not at his mercy to make sure he shows up with a car. He is very sharp, he's been around, and he has told me a few things that will be positive in the next year. I have to keep those ideas vague for now.

Tell Donnie to make sure it's a vintage car(I know he will), what data I have from this year, tells me I'm onto something AND ANYTHING LESS THAN 20 YEARS OLD IS GOING TO HAVE A SLIM TO NONE CHANCE OF WINNING ON THE SATURDAY NIGHT PORTION. I will use my best efforts to make sure the winner is happy he won, i have 360+ days to get it done. Winning Saturday the way we have it set up, will give a driver the upper hand on Sunday. I will be working on the incentive for that one too.

I think now that the limited resources we had was really a good thing for the first year. The next year or two will prove me right or wrong.

My all time racing hero showed up too, and I didn't get to talk to him at all but for a second. That's okay, he's my Dad and I had to borrow his truck for this weekend, so.....I'm sure I'll be running into him sometime soon if I don't take it back home.

To All,

I was working on Rob Carters Lawn Mower today and had to do some rigging on it to make it work, which made me think about some of the repairs I've seen or have done at the track. Here's a list:

#1 Bob Brotherton fixing Bobby Walkers block between heat and A-FEA by using 2 Ball Peen's to peen the cylinder walls up between the #3&#5 cylinders, filing in down putting a gasket on and Bobby finishing 3rd in the A-FEA.

#2 Me pouring 3 gallon of Old Dutch 85w-140 into the sump tank on the old Hill & Kearney #10 at Tulsa in a 50 lapper on a 46th lap red while leading, we had used all of our oil on a 32nd lap red and the RE lube was all we had left to put in it. Ray Crawford had a ton of oil on him as he had ran 2nd the whole way, we were finally smart enough to pull the plugs out of #3 & #6 cylinders which cut down on the smoking alot, oh and Ray beat us on the restart for the win. Surprisingly the bearings didn't look that bad!!!!!!!!

#3Welding about 3' of angle iron on the drag link on Jarvis's old #20 modified at Tulsa's big track, it was right hand steer and we were running a 94" GDYR Marsh Recap on the RF, it had so much load that the DL would bow about a foot..

#4 Pulling the pan on Gilliam #29 at Muskogee with Stan Constant, it broke the stock pump off the cap on the last lap of the Heat which Stan won, put a new pump and rod bearings in it and ran 2nd in the A-FEA.

#5 Cutting off an old Craftsman square shank screwdriver and driving it into the LR hub on Moss's old #01, it was an old Halibrand tapered axle and had sheared the key off, it worked perfect and lead us to a win at Lawton.

#6 Eugene Hair using the dipstick to jump the starter and start the engine in the Cope & Guffey #4 on a red flag when the starter switch went bad and going on to win the A-FEA at Whicita Falls.

#7 Charlie Och welding the oil pan up after lighting the motor off with a torch at Lawton, MP would go on to run 2nd in the A-FEA.

#8 Me welding the front tubes back on Shorty's #12 Helms J&J after the broke off the RF frame at Batesville AR. All we had was a torch I welded it up and he went on to finish 5th in the A-FEA. It was not a good repair though as they broke off again at Tulsa the next night!!!!!!!!

#9 Shorty hose clamping the rear tubes back on Nance's Aluminium sprint car at the bowl after they broke off in the A-FEA during a red flag.

#10 At Dallas in '87 at the Spring Nationals we swallowed a 7/16th wrench down the injector on #4 cylinder in hot laps, pulled the head, took the valve out with what was left of wrench, borrowed a TRW vale from a street stocker put it back together in time to win the heat and finish 3rd in the A-FEA.

My all time favorite though was in "85 we were at Tulsa NCRA and broke a motor in hot laps, changed it broke it in the heat, putting in another motor only to have it swallow a rock (no air cleaners on stacks) and smash a ring down and blow the front seal and pan gasket out just as we won the B-FEA , pulled the front off the motor using the balancer off one of the others put a seal and pan gasket on started scratch in the A, spit the pulleys off on the 2nd lap coasted to the infield just as they had a red, took pulley's off the 2nd engine put them and belts on only losing 1 lap when they had another red flag, we started dead last and unlapped our selves on lap 35 had a yellow on lap 38 which put us to the tail of the lead lap, 16 cars still running we moved into 2nd on lap 47 and ran Ewell down and almost passed for the win on lap 49 off turn 2 but had to settle for 2nd, that Shane earned his money that night and Sandy & I did to!!