Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
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This just in...

A very nicely built, Howerton/Beck style frame has been retrieved in OkC. I don't want to give any other details out since it's not my frame.

This car IS NOT the Terry Doss car since that car is being restored in NE Oklahoma.

This is the frame. Any ideas?

Thanks to this board,and this thread, that makes two awesome finds in one week! Actually more goes on than makes the board. But what makes the surface is pretty cool.

Warren, people love these old cars and it's hard to even imagine someone would throw away the Riffel #55. The odds are better than you think.

It looks like a few mods have been done. But it's obvious someone knew the Howerton design very well. Word has it the welds are very nice.

There were from what I hear some copies out there that were arc welded, and it seems that is not the case here.

Brian:

After the posts that you have done and I have done concerning the Walker/Hillenburg cars, I got an email from a guy in NE Oklahoma that says he has a bare Walker chassis with parallel front bars. He has several other cars also. I am going to check out next week.

GRC35

I think I know who that is.

Tell him I don't know a hell of a lot about what I'm doing, but I'm trying my best.

A Howerton car car came up I think 4 or 5 years ago through the website. I believe Mike Pogue was trying to buy it, if memory is right. I believe this in when I had a Bravenet forum and there wasn't much traffic on it.

It was supposed to be a Howerton car. The guy was from the Oklahoma City area I believe.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

One authority on Howerton chassis says this could be a Roger Beck.

Howertons had a short piece of 2x4 rectangular tubing to reinforce the torsion arms on the rear. Kenny Butler Sr had one years ago.

I need help, what is the lastname of the man closest to the camera leaning on the wheel? He was a pit man for Robert Brown and Pat Patterson during the late 60's and early 70's. His first name is Shorty, he was a midget, just for my own personal information Iwould like to know his name. The car was an original Don Edmunds built car and had the brass name plate on the dash.

Mike

To All,

Had hoped to be posting something in here about the old cars at ADA for Leep Jr's Memorial Race that was scuduled for this weekend but theweather won or as Alice told me Friday night Jr just wanted us to race on the 30th which would be a year after he left us. How neat it would be if Jeff won this race, I can't think of a better way to honor the occation, however no matter who wins it should be an honor for them.

I'm hoping to see the #6 Willingham/Parson car there I've been wanting to see it in person, it sure looks good in the pictures I've seen. Also wanting to see Brian's old GRC #35 even though it's not restored to Gary's color and # it's still Gary's car basically!!

Shorty brought by a Magizine, Flat Out maybe was the name and it had a good article about Benny and a pic of him standing beside the old mans car had to be early '75 as it is the old Jelly #13 and not the Parson #13.

Jim, what happened to the copy of Hill's car that DE & Ernie built? Didn't Johnny & Horace build a copy or 2 also, I think Ricky Jenning's had a copy and did well with it.

Shorty's is bugging me about building him a car to run at OKC wonder if I built a copy of the #13 if they would let us run it in the limited class, I could scale it down to an 88" car but I wonder if we left it full scale and put the right parts on it just how fast it would be, that car was light back in those day, just a touch over 1300# with all steel parts, I might be able to get it under 1200# or less using modern parts. If we built a 350 motor on gas with a carb we should be able to get 600+ HP & over 580 on torque, that would be a 125/150 HP more then we were getting out of the 302's and a ton more torque. I wouldn't be scared to run againt the limited sprints & it might just be competitive against SS.

To All,

At the end of '85 we were at the Bowl for the Winter Nationals it was a big race as the WOO was there plus all the Champ cars, Ewell had won the NCRA Championship after a heated battle with us, it had been quite a year we had won alot of races finished 2nd in NCRA and 4th at OKC even though we had only run 9 pt races, think we finished in the top 15 at Tulsa and had only run about 6-7 pt shows there. Any way we show up to run the Champ car but Shorty didn't have a sprint ride for some reason, so he came up with the idea that we would run 1 car both class's. We went out for hot laps and we were fast he was able to run it almost flat footed all the way around. We drew a fairly easy heat in the Champ car part so we made ready to qualify for the Outlaw deal nobody had said a thing hell our Champ car looked just like the Gambler house sprint car which I think Bobby Davis or Danny Smith was driving, we went out at a perfect time for us and qualified 5th fastest well it didn't take to long and a couple of the guys were bitch'in so Ted or Burl came over and told us we couldn't run with them, bunch of pussy's!!!! So we just ran the Champ car deal, won the heat easy and started on the front of the A-FEA and won it I think Bob ran 2nd MP ran 3rd off the back man he was really going, we were standing on top Mr Bill's trailer with Jack Elam and old man Schoff (who was a super nice guy) that MP was passing them high and low, about 1/2 through Bruce Jenning's was blocking him for a lap or 2 and MP drove him into 3 deep on the outside and made it stick, Bruce turned over trying to follow MP, Jack and old man Schoff were just shaking there head's, I watched the same move by MP on Bruce a couple weeks ago in a heat race at OKC only Bruce didn't turn over this time. Don't think MP HAS LOST MUCH!!!!!

Can still get it done from what I have seen and I don't think he has lost a step in his whole career and he has been doing it for a long time ,the guy has won in everything and for everyone he has drove for I believe. Tough Hombre as well , last year , dam near a head on at speed into the front straightaway concrete wall at OKC and gets out and walks away from it. In my book you define that as a "Tough Hombre".

Question of the day When did Mike Peters first start racing?, first remember hearing his name at Hutch in the late 70's at the Hutch Nats.,I would imagine he run up in Ks. long before that.

Mike told me his racing history in 1975. He started driven 1/4 midgetss whe he was 5or 6, that would have been in 1955 or'56 because he was born in August 1950. He drove them until he was to old. He and his father built a modified he started driving it in 1971 at Wichita, back then you had to be 21 to drive. I ask him when did he win his first feature he said the second week that he drove. I was impressed with a win on his 2nd night of racing, but he wasn't, he said that he started at the front of the feature and any time that you start there you should win. He won the modified championship at Wichita in 1972. During the 1973 season Jerry Wilson asked him to drive his number 25 super, there is a picture of him and this car in the Hutch section of RFTP. He finished in the top 10 in modifieds and supers in 1973 at Wichita. He told Jerry that he didn't know what to do to get his car to handle and That he should get some body else to drive it, he said he wore blisters on his hands driving the 25 super. He went back to his modified until mid 1974 and Norman asked him to drive the 17 Modified after Norman and David Moore quit. At the the August 1974 NCRA race at Wichita he and Larry Wilson got together while he was leading And he was put in the back. in less than 20 he laps he past but the winner, Don Engel would have past him in anther lap or 2. Norman had a new car built for him in the winter of 74-75, the famous 71 which started out as the number 7 but had to change because Tulsa already had a #7 modified. In 1975 Mike was probably the most successful and feared modified in the Tulsa-OK City,Wichita area. I don't remember how many features that he won but he won 8 At Tulsa and in the NCRA he won 3 of the 4 that he finished. He did'nt win th Ncra championship because he was not able to finish the first 4 races because of mech. problems and 1 wreck. He won several features at Dewey, Wichita and Fayetteville AR running with the Supers and finished in the top 10 at Dewey and Wichita withe the Supers. Mike told me how he got started and the rest I got from my NCRA yearbooks and racing programs.

Ray

JD & Bkcr,

I think Bkcr is pretty close on the time frame that MP started modifieds, I have actually sat in MP's first modified, he brought it to OKC to sell in '78 or '79 he left it at the house I was living in at the time, that thing was a real piece, all home built had a 1/4 steel floor board around the bell housing. If I remember right it had parallell bars on the rear an all steel Vicki body. I believe he sold it to Gene Denton or that Gene wound up with it, believe he sold it for $900.00.

Talked to OJ this afternoon lining up some tires for up and coming races, they have done pretty good so far this year, winning a couple A-FEA at 81 SPDY & at Dodge City plus they have ran pretty good the times they have ran here so far.

Jim will remember my first offical meeting with MP had to be Winter Nationals at OKC in '79 his first ride with Larry Hill he sailed my #01 over the 3rd turn wall with Jarvis aboard, we did come back and win the B-FEA on a M-15 Diamond and a 4-Block but didn't do very well in the A-FEA.

Stopped in Amarillo the other day on the way to PX and visited my old friend Lyndon Moss he has 45+ old Ford Tractor's man it wouldn't take much for me to move out there and I sure love those old 8N's there kinda like old Super's to work on!!!! He has 1 with a V-8 85 and has an old V-12 Lincoln that he is putting into one of them, those old V-12's sound great on straight pipes!!

Does anybody realize how many old Ford's & Chevy's that our Dad's & there Dad's used up. Back then you just mainly needed a torch set-up and a stick welder to build a car. Now days you need a jig and scales and a shock dyno and bar tester plus the computor to run it all or tell you how to build it. Not counting the Tig Welder, CNC mill and lathe. Have to have a weather station and traction control, man things have changed Leep, Hahn, Aaron, DE, ETC had traction control there butt to brain to foot, thats still my favorite set-up!!!!!!!

David, the foot to brain deal has got to be the best explanation of traction control I've ever heard. That is priceless.

I actually drove the "Vickie body" car that MP drove that ended up with Gene Denton. D.E. had the old beast down at Racers Corner with a For Sale sign on it. It appeared race ready less the in-line 6 motor. So I asked D.E. ..."If I put a motor in it can I take it out." D.E. said NO it's For Sale. So after the ole turd sat there at Racers Corner for about three weeks D.E. said OK Allen if you put a motor in it you can run it until it sells. Well my next question was, where do I get a motor? D.E. said go down and see Henry and make a deal with him.

I'm thinking at the time OK who's Henry. So after lettering the #75 and the #76 I had a Junkyard dog 6 banger to throw at the deal. The ol motor barely had enough horse power to get Grandma to the Grocery before they closed and the car was a beast. The steering box was so worn-out you had to count on the straight way before entering the corner 1...2...3...then turn the wheel four turns to the right.....then back eight turns to the left.....then let the car catch up and turn the wheel 2 turns back to the left. That is no joke.

The ole car was also equipped with a hand clutch so that the linkage interfeared with the brake pedal. So if you had to get in the brakes hard it would try to kill the motor, and if you pulled the clutch handle you had no brakes and if you pushed the brake you had no clutch. (cross linkage) But hey who am I to complain MP drove it with much success.

I got into a deal one night on the 1/4 mile where in needed both the brake and the clutch. But everytime I pulled the clutch, then pushed the brake only to engage the clutch, I was fighting myself and then the ole car crashed.

The very following week Gene Denton bought the car and did pretty good with it and I never got to drive what D.E. dubbed "Lil Dumpling" again.

Bkcr, Nice recap of Mike Peters career.

David, Your right , back then you had to do all the work , modify, build and fabricate , now the computers and machinery do it all for you.

Allen that car sounds like a handful to drive back then.

David, I rember Mike saying that they got the bars out of a Mooris Minor, I think that this was pretty common back then. Did This car have a QC rear end?

Ray

Bkcr,

I believe in had a small CAE center section w/housing's, don't remember if it was a floater or not. I do remember it was drum brakes all around.