Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

OK, there are 3 theories here: Age, Ford, & Ricky Warner.Too many variables to get a definite answer.... in  a problem with 3 variables, you need 3 different equations to get a solution. I suspect all 3 having varying degrees of effect.

Schatz is 47. Kinser won Championships at ages 48 thru 51 (Interesting that Donnie's run started right after that, which supports the "Young guns " theory... left that out, makes 4 variables!) Agreed that we all age at different rates....

I just lean to the "Ford" theory cause he hasn't seemed to have the speed on straights any more. Thru the years Small Block Chevies have had the rep for more RPMs than Fords, but who knows since these engines aren't really either

We'll see how it plays out this year...

Good point...

I'm almost 75 & either swim a 1/2 mile or ride a bike 8-10 miles almost every day.....nothing to do with Sprint cars, just bragging!  .....although I had to cut down my bike riding since flash floods this past summer wiped out my local "rails to trails".... now I have to drive a 1/2 hr. to get to a good bike trail, instead of 4 minutes.... not gonna ride on these roads with fools driving & texting, plus these New England hills are WAY too steep. Railroad beds are usually 3% grade maximum.

But I could NEVER back up a vehicle worth a crap....

Can't disagree with you.  My father still does it.  But as time goes by, his abilities are definitely not where they once were.  I think you're mistaking "cannot do" with "cannot do at quite the same level."  If he can't quite do it as well as he used to, but can still do it, how does that translate to sprint car racing?  Kinser, and his equipment, were that much better than everyone else he could afford to age.  Donnie doesn't have that luxury.  Gravel is not just good, he's fantastic, in his prime, and in equipment that is every bit as good as TSR.  Logan, Gio, Buddy, Carson are pretty good, and are running the top caliber equipment.  Larson is out of this world on talent, and although  Silva is on a tighter budget, the equipment is as good as it gets.  Donnie cannot afford even a 5% decline in abilities.  So, can he still do it?  Sure.  At a high level?  So far.  At a level better than the guys listed above?  No.  Period.  The torch has been passed whether or not we continue to blame this on the emblem on the car or who is turning the wrenches.  

Father time is undefeated. Some people are able to fend him off a little longer than others but eventually, it catches up. Donny has done an incredible job despite his age, and probably is better than 90+ % of the guys out there. If you take his season stats the past few years, a majority of drivers would take that as a successful season. Its just with him, everyone is use to the 20-30+ race wins and a championship being locked up by August. Those days are gone and I do not care if a Chevy is under the hood and Ricky would come back. While those things were factors in his success back in the day, it was still Donny that made it happen. I still can't believe I was cheering for the guy at Knoxville a couple years ago when he won the thing, and the people around me that would normally throw a double bird in the air whenever he would make a pass were suddenly clapping for him. 

Has anyone noticed how the ranks of older WoO drivers have disappeared the past decade or so?  It wasn't that long ago that the majority of drivers were older.  We watched Donny is 360's in the mid 90's, thirty years ago.  The influx of teenage drivers from Karts and Micros has pushed a lot of guys into retirement with only a few exceptions like Madsen for example.  

Another question becomes can Donny turn the clock back six years and have the same level of success?  I don't know the answer but I think the competition has come a long way in six years.  It's one of those things that will have to play out and see what happens.  That's why being a Sprint Car fan is fun.  
 

Stan Meissner

Looking at the "older" days of sprint car racing, the old cagey veteran was the dude who got the big money rides, and the sponsorships.  Now, they're throwing much younger guys, who are very quick to react (whether good or bad) and have loads of natural talent, and can be marketed for years!  So yes, sprint car racing has gone the way of all other forms of racing.  No more waiting a decade to be groomed for that top seat. 

Talent---check.  Family money or sponsorships---check.  Marketability----check. 

The days of the veteran having the better equipment and backing are over.  Kinser and Sammy were pretty good in their later years.  Kinser and Sammy didn't run into a 25 year old Kyle Larson in equal equipment when they were in their 40's and 50's.  Just sayin.  

No, but they did run into a Doug Wolfgang during there careers!

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Just curious if you can read. Doug Wolfgang is older than Sammy and Kinser.  So no, it would be impossible for Wolfgang in his prime, to race Kinser and Sammy in their late 40's and early-50's unless he has a time machine.  Time travel is not possible for those of us without accounting degrees.  As Sammy and Steve approached their twighlight years in racing, Doug had long since retired.  I hope your reading comprehension at work is better than on this forum since millions of dollars rest on your shoulders.  

Yes, but age doesn't matter if you are kicking someone's butt week in and week out! Doug did it when Steve and Sammy were in the prime of their careers!   Doug was as well.  I  remember it didn't matter who he raced against Doug was more than likely to win in the mid 80's!  Doug would have won a lot more if he wouldn't have gotten hurt!  He retired because he had to retire!

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

And once again you are nowhere near the entire conversation we were having.  We weren't comparing drivers in their primes.  I'll type slower next time.  

You may have to put all your points in a ledger or spreadsheet for the great accountant, which suddenly means they are at the top of the company. Make sure they are balanced though, unlike some people's mental stablility 

You are full of sh@t! Age has nothing to do with racing!  Nothing to do with racing!  If you're 20 or 50 NOTHING!

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Said no driver ever. Any driver will tell you there's a big difference between 20 and 50. You've never turned a wheel on a track in your life you have no idea what your talking about as usual just talking out of your ass.

Bull!  The only thing that changes is you will not take as many stupid chances when you are 50.  Lance Dewease was still kicking the outlaws butts when he was in his 50's.   Pittman (46 or 47) still has it and it is showing everytime he drives the 69k.  I will say it again...Bull!  I don't do excuses!

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

You're a little off on your information. I watched Wolfgang race and win locally after his injury. 

Oops!  Looks like that's not right either. 1980 through 1990 in the WoO, Kinser won 234 times, Swindell 149, and Wolfgang 89.

In fact, the only year that Wolfgang won more WoO races than both Kinser and Swindell was in 1989- because Steve and Sammy ran zero WoO races that year.

Maybe you meant the mid-80's. From 1983 through1986, the WoO wins compariosn looked like Kinser 70, Swindell 56, Wolfgang 14. 

Do you consider race car drivers, sprint car drivers in particular, to be athletes?

The compitition took big leap forward during covid because Larson showed up and won most everywhere he went. Everyone else had to step up their game to have any chance of winning.

They are the exception not the rule and if you take the 69k out of it they ain't kicking anybody's butt right now.

Congratulations.   Whether you know it or not you just end this whole debate.

Your are saying Lance is doing anything now.  You said take out the 69k for this debate.  Using Lance as the example for this debate everyone said in 2015 Lance was done.  He was to old and his time has come to step aside.  Then he gets in the 69k and kicks most teams asses for what 6 or 7 years.  How did an old washed up driver do that?

Because racing, and you all should know this,  racing is not like any other sport.  It doesn't matter how much money a person has they can't play quarterback in the NFL.    But with money you can become a pretty good racer.  Yes the pieces of the puzzle have to be put in the right place to become dominant or a champion.  

How do we know Donnie has lost a step?  Is any other team in the past 5 years kicking ass using a Ford?  Nope.

So let us at least compare apples to apples.  Is is not like Donnie is getting lapped.  Maybe he has lost his touch or come August he battling for another Knoxville Nationals win.  Then what will you all be saying?

Most all racing is based on the car you have, not all you need talent.  But can't take a knife to a gun fight.  Or a six shooter against a semi automatic.