Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Hear about Matt Vandervere?

His 410 was taken out in the Wilmot Fall Classic 410 dash by an idiot.

He ran his 604 sprint and tagged the field. He came in 5th!

A lot of people thoughe he would be in the way.

Amazing run.

I tell it like I see it.

I have seen limited sprints fun top 5 against 410's on super dry slick tracks in the past with accomplished drivers behind the wheel. Usually on shorter tracks 3/8 and smaller so it's not unheard of at all....  

The older I get the faster I was

Wouldn't a crate sprint be more economical and probably faster than a 305? 

A

Some think a 305 will not last long esp. on a large track.  I feel they are wrong.  If you put a $298 cast crank and $298 rods and nhyper. pistons the engine may not last long.  If you put forged $1000 crank and rods and forged pistons the engine will last a long time if assembled correctly.  I have seen crate engines blow up.  A 305 is only as good as the parts you put in it.

Are these "sealed" motors?

What are the specs of these 604 engines ?        What about the 602 engines ?   

We have some 602 Sportsmen (Modifieds) race here in PA.    I once asked a young driver what the engine specs were and he didn't know which gave me a chuckle.     

Thanks in advance.

All I know is that the 604 make around 500hp on meth with a 650 or 750 cfm carb.

The 604 in question is SUPPOSED to be tuned in at 450 HP

Is this a motor that runs non-wing normally? They have a tuning standard? I belive the 602 and 604 guys with the winged UMSS sprints are making around 480 hp or so. 

No way a 604 will make 480 hp unless it isn't legal.  I had a brand new sealed 604 for a few years in UMSS and on the dyno it make about 430hp with the 4 barrel carb and about 411 with the 2 barrel carb. The legal sbc 350s will make about the same hp as the 604, maybe a little more.  The only motors that are capable of reaching 480hp are the LS and 305 motors in the UMSS.

Times have changed, so not sure why this would be humorous.  In the old days, it was motorheads that like to race.  (Not Lemmy and Wurzel, but guys that like to wrench on cars)   Now, drivers are groomed to get the most out of a car and explain to a car chief what it's doing.  I'm not so sure this is worse.  In the old days it was which good mechanic was the best driver.   Now, we can separate the 2 and maximize both duties.  Some of the best drivers of all time couldn't tell you the difference between a piston and a crankshaft, and it means nothing.........especially if you're buying a crate motor.  

From the horse's mouth. I must have got the LS in my brain but I knew one of those motors was up there with the injected cars. Thanks Jeff!

Yes, same motor that wisconsin wingLESS runs.  Wilmot started a winged 604 group and I do not know if the specs are different.  The number I hear is 450. Whether many of them pump that, who knows.  A few of the wingLESS guys ran once in awhile with UMSS until a few years ago when the group decided the motor differences were enough that they voted to not let them run with them.  That is how I remember it 

Jeff would know but I think the 10K price on the 604 is why that motor was disallowed in the non-wing but the wings can run it. Enough LS and small blocks available that were way cheaper is they way I remember it. 

2024 Winged 604 Sprint Rule Book
ENGINES
Option 1:
Recommended engine for this class is a GM sealed #19318604 or
#88958604 crate engine, commonly known as a GM604. Engine CANNOT be
modified or have the design integrity of the 604 altered. We do allow these
engines to be freshened, though any replacement parts must be OEM
GM604 or approved OEM replacements. Excessive machining and/or milling
is not allowed. We will use any option available to us to tech these engines
for compliance, including but not limited to, a cubic inch pump, whistler,
etc. Failure to cooperate with the tech process will result in an automatic
disqualification. Maximum compression 10.1:1 with no additional tolerance.
Any 604 which “whistles” more than 10.1:1 based on our Whistler testing
will be considered illegal and disqualified. Engine will have a maximum RPM
of 6700. Engines may have cam drilled for rear drives. Maximum 1½” car
spacer. A 1” or #12AN size inspection plug is required on the oil pan (failure
to do so will be require pan removal upon request). Below is a parts list for
the conversion to a sprint car application. These part numbers were
supplied by Lane Automotive/Motor State. They, as well as Behling, Don’s,
Paddock Lake Bumper to Bumper, and R&H are all series sponsors also Lane
dealers. Gandrud Chevrolet in Green Bay is the Official Chevrolet.
SCH1052LVCM-3 Schoenfeld Headers (this is only header that fits the 604) -
unaltered, no merge collectors.
QFTQ-750-CTA Quick Fuel 750 cfm alcohol carb (or) QTFQ-650-CTA Quick
Fuel 650 cfm alcohol carb
JRP1004-S-CE Jones Serpentine Drive Kit SWE305-80830
SWEET power steering pump ALL31105
AllStar water pump PRC9351 7-1/2 psi mech fuel pump ALL81200
AllStar GM HEI Distributor w/cap ALL27503
AllStar dist hold down TRA2310 fuel pump mount plate FEL1900
FelPro Holley carb gasket
FEL1901FelPro 1” carb plate gasket
ARP200-2402 carb stud kit
NGKR5724-8 spark plugs (race)
HVHSS4150-1ALW 1” alum lightweight super sucker carb spacer
Crate innovations CH-21115 Hub & slip yoke (PREFERRED) or BER372-NC-
EXT Bert External Drive Kit ( BEWARE, check fit)
Option2:
Wilmot Spec Engine (build your engine). This engine will be chipped at 6800
RPM’s and the maximum HP is 450. Block: A) Any Chevrolet 305, 307,
327,or 350 Cl stock iron block that was available in a passenger car or truck.
Max overbore - .060” B) No interchange of crankshafts or rods to blocks
allowed. C) Absolutely no lightening of any kind. All mounts must remain,
fuel pump, motor etc. D) Factory 2 or 4 bolt main blocks ONLY (can NOT
alter a 2 bolt block to a 4 bolt block). No splade caps. Crankshaft: A) Any
stock GM production crankshaft allowed. The following Scat 9000 Series
crankshafts are allowed : Chevrolet 350 - Scat (Part # 9-10442) B) Stroke
must match block. C) No lightening or polishing allowed. Balancing is
allowed . D) Crankshaft flange may be machined to fit rear motor plate and
torque ball housing.
Rods:
A) Any stock steel production rod. Scat OEM replacement I-beam rod #35700 or
Eagle OEM I=beam rod # 5700BBLW allowed
B) Rod length must match block. Chevy 5.7” length powdered metal rods allowed.
C) No grinding or polishing allowed. Balancing allowed.
D) No cap screws allowed. Max 3/8” bolts.
Pistons:
A) Any forged aluminum piston allowed.
B) Engines must not exceed 9.5 :1 compression ratio.
Camshaft:
A) Hydraulic cam and lifters only.
B) Lifters must collapse .100” min.
C) Only lifters of engine make can be used
D) Lifters must rotate freely and be of magnetic material.
E) Timing chain only, no belt driven or gear drives allowed.
F) Cam may be drilled for rear spud.
Cylinder Heads:
A) Stock cast iron production cylinder heads only. No aftermarket heads allowed.
Except GM EQ heads.
B) Chevrolet 1987-1995 Swirl port heads are allowed.
C) No Vortex, Bowtie, SVO, W-2, Magnum, Gen II, or angle plug heads allowed.
D) The following Chevrolet casting numbers are not allowed. 040, 041, 186, 187,
291, 370, 414, 432, 461, 461X, 462, 492, 1012532, 10208890,
10239906,12554290, 14011083, or 14096217.
E) Porting or polishing of any kind is not allowed
F) No angle milling, only standard reconditioning allowed
G) Carbide cutter relief cuts allowed below the valve seat but not to exceed more
than X inch below the top of the valve seat.
H) Valve spring diameter can only be stock production.
I) Steel stock type stamped rocker arms, roller or roller tipped rocker arms are
allowed.
J) Stud girdles are not allowed.
Intake Manifolds:
A) All engines must use the following intake manifold part numbers. Edelbrock
(Part #2701) Weiand (Part# 7546, 7467, or 7547-1).
B) HVHSS4150-1ALW 1” alum lightweight super sucker carb spacer
C) Porting, polishing, gasket matching of any kind is not allowed.
D) Bottom of carburetor may be no more than 1-3/8 inches from top of manifold.
Oiling System:
A) Wet sump only, oil pump must be in oil pan.
B) Pan inspection plug is required, located so crankshaft & rods are visible with
bore scope. 1” pipe or #12 AN size on plug. Removing the pan may be required if
further inspection is necessary.
Exhaust:
A) Header tube: 1 5/8 inch maximum outside diameter on the primary tubes,+ or -
.030.
B) One collector per side. No merge collectors.
C) Headers must be stock with no alterations.
D) Pan Evac Systems are not permitted on the build your own or crate 604. “Crank
case vacuum system”
Water Pump & Radiator:
A) Any stock type water pump allowed.
B) Radiator must be in front of engine.
Option 3:
No Grandfathered MSA 360 that were allowed to run with the non wing series are
not allowed to run in the wing 604 series. No 360’s at all are allowed.
Engine Penalties:
Any engine components in any engine combination that are found to be illegal,
modified, or altered to where they do not conform to the rules will result in ALL
money and points for that event forfeited and both car and driver may be
suspended for indefinite period. This class is based on a economical crate engine
program that does not require any internal changes. We take this se

I tell it like I see it.

Obviously times change, do you consider all changes to be positive progress?  I look back and remember more racing teams, now teams have to merge with another just to keep afloat. Yes, Ethal, times do change.

Track conditions sometimes less power is better. You dont hear as much about traction contol but it depowered motor and made a difference on dry slick tracks.[Of course it was nevered used ]. Donny Schatz experminted with more cubic inches and think won a race at Fargo with a more economical motor. The motor used in Knoxville in the Pace [305] is a larger displacement motot that actually was implemented to cut costs as the high dollar 305s were costing near $30K. Not often but have seen cars that lose a cylinder get ahold of a slck track and be competitive. Motor costs have increased much faster than purses. The HL series has helped but still not many teams could survive on purse money alone with reported costs of around $6K by some to open the trailer.