Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

You said: "This situation has not really happened with HL yet so it will be interesting with how they react. The thing is while they do allow drivers to race on off weekends, they do require all drivers to race in all sanction races to get points. To me this is the same as the Outlaws rule."

Its not the same, & you just said it yourself: "they do allow drivers to race on off weekends"... BIG difference!

The reason that it "has not really happened with HL yet" is that no track would be dumb enough to put up more than $20,000 top prize in direct competition with HL, when they could just as easily schedule on an HL off day & get the same drivers. Works out best for everyone.....

Its not a big difference, sorry to say. They allow them currently because they have nothing scheduled currently and as Egras and others have eluded to, look at their off weekends currently. It has nothing to do with giving drivers and teams a rest or to go to "other" races. Outside of not racing in March which is a crapshoot to begin with, tt has been for the Outlaw dates at Knoxville to basically "pre race" for the Nationals, the big money race at Husets, Kings Royal which they had a race during the week anyway, then the weeks leading to Knoxville to again basically allow the teams run Knoxville. Yes currently, it appears that they have the freedom to race anywhere but realistically it is because it is a means to exist currently. That especially true for already estabilished races like Kings Royal and Knoxville.

And also, no one has been dumb enough yet. No one thought that we would see someone put up a big money race for years then Mansfield happened. Everyone was in an uproar because the Outlaws had a regular race scheduled and would not let their drivers attend it. That was when the whole platnium/exclusivity talk started, "I can't believe they won't let their guys race for $100k thats wrong." Even though no one at the time was paying close to 10k for 80+ times a year, however many 20,40,50, etc plus races but that 1 100k race got everyone up in arms. I know talking to a few team people and staff members that a few people within the All Stars were really ticked off about that show especially since it happened in their territory.

If this were to happening then whats to stop a track in a sprint car territory, to look at the upcoming year's schedule for HL to go, hey on such and such date in May, HL is going to be within 100miles of us. I bet if I put on a 20-50k race the following day a bunch of those guys will show up and I can get a pretty good car count and crowd and it would save me a lot of money with having to pay a sanctioning fee. I could potentially have a HL show without having to pay for a HL show. Then what is to stop from 2,3, 4 tracks doing this. Don't think it would happen, don't be so sure. History shows there are plenty of dumb people willing to take a risk, and sometimes they hit. Currently if HL told their guys or if it got out that they asked their guys to not support a race like that then everyone on here would be up in arms about it.

Its not a big difference, sorry to say. They allow them currently because they have nothing scheduled currently and as Egras and others have eluded to, look at their off weekends currently. It has nothing to do with giving drivers and teams a rest or to go to "other" races. Outside of not racing in March which is a crapshoot to begin with, tt has been for the Outlaw dates at Knoxville to basically "pre race" for the Nationals, the big money race at Husets, Kings Royal which they had a race during the week anyway, then the weeks leading to Knoxville to again basically allow the teams run Knoxville. Yes currently, it appears that they have the freedom to race anywhere but realistically it is because it is a means to exist currently. That especially true for already estabilished races like Kings Royal and Knoxville.

And also, no one has been dumb enough yet. No one thought that we would see someone put up a big money race for years then Mansfield happened. Everyone was in an uproar because the Outlaws had a regular race scheduled and would not let their drivers attend it. That was when the whole platnium/exclusivity talk started, "I can't believe they won't let their guys race for $100k thats wrong." Even though no one at the time was paying close to 10k for 80+ times a year, however many 20,40,50, etc plus races but that 1 100k race got everyone up in arms. I know talking to a few team people and staff members that a few people within the All Stars were really ticked off about that show especially since it happened in their territory.

If this were to happening then whats to stop a track in a sprint car territory, to look at the upcoming year's schedule for HL to go, hey on such and such date in May, HL is going to be within 100miles of us. I bet if I put on a 20-50k race the following day a bunch of those guys will show up and I can get a pretty good car count and crowd and it would save me a lot of money with having to pay a sanctioning fee. I could potentially have a HL show without having to pay for a HL show. Then what is to stop from 2,3, 4 tracks doing this. Don't think it would happen, don't be so sure. History shows there are plenty of dumb people willing to take a risk, and sometimes they hit. Currently if HL told their guys or if it got out that they asked their guys to not support a race like that then everyone on here would be up in arms about it.

This year the outlaws will not have to pay beyound 12th place. Also the HL drivers for the most part made more running outside the series than the Exclusivity point fund.

Thats a big gamble and look what happened to that big sprint car race. I agree it is a possibility though, but no gaurantee. The Front Row challenge is actually a feebie for the Outlaw teams that pays 21k to win and is only 30 miles from Knoxville the Monday before the nationals. There were only 24 cars that showed up. Only 8 of the HL drivers showed up for the big Husets races in June. Six raced elsewhere and 2 took that week off. There are always some other big races and series scheduling around the Lucas Oil late models and Outlaw latemodels, but it doesn't mean they will race them. Eldora has 2 historic crown jewels that have been around for decades. Neither national tour schedules against them and there are still some of those drivers that take those weekends off or race elswhere.

Besides if HL is in the area and someone wants to put on a big race, I don't know if they will really care. That just means HL has races scheduled. The track promoting the HL shows might though.

Thats a big gamble and look what happened to that big sprint car race. I agree it is a possibility though, but no gaurantee. The Front Row challenge is actually a feebie for the Outlaw teams that pays 21k to win and is only 30 miles from Knoxville the Monday before the nationals. There were only 24 cars that showed up. Only 8 of the HL drivers showed up for the big Husets races in June. Six raced elsewhere and 2 took that week off. There are always some other big races and series scheduling around the Lucas Oil late models and Outlaw latemodels, but it doesn't mean they will race them. Eldora has 2 historic crown jewels that have been around for decades. Neither national tour schedules against them and there are still some of those drivers that take those weekends off or race elswhere.

Besides if HL is in the area and someone wants to put on a big race, I don't know if they will really care. That just means HL has races scheduled. The track promoting the HL shows might though.

The Capi or Front Row Challenge, pose no threat to the Outlaws draw for their premier event in Knoxville from Wednesday to Saturday.  None.  Everyone is in town for the Nats.   

The HL on the other hand, if they don't "tighten their belt" is allowing the possibility of a big show to be scheduled 100-200 miles down the road on an off night.  It doesn't matter if you "THINK" this would not affect the turnout at the HL race, it definitely WOULD affect the turnout at the HL show in a negative manner, especially if fans closer to the non-HL event decided to just wait a day or 2 to save travel.  We can keep pretending they won't do anything to hold their drivers from these potential events down the road.  They have to.  

Your last sentence "I don't know if they really care."  "The track promoting the HL shows might though."  Those go hand in hand.  If the track holding your shows cares, you HAVE to care.  

I enjoyed every High Limit race this year, as I subscribed to both Flo and DV.  I saw no issues, and enjoyed both series.  However, I'm not going to stray from my overall thought process that the HL is going to have to toughen up, and piss all of the Outlaw haters off by becoming more like the Outlaws.

I could have attended 2 HL races this year that were in my area.  However, it would have been an inconvenience for me to do so.  Had it been my only chance to see those "committed" HL guys, I would have put those races on my schedule and made the arrangements with work.  However, i didn't have to attend those events to see those drivers at Davenport (which was rained out anyways) and 34 Raceway.  You see, they were going to be in Knoxville in mid-June anyways because the HL did not schedule against the Outlaw event there.  In the future, the HL is going to make decisions in it's best interest, and will have to start scheduling against these other Outlaw events.  They will also have to find a way to contractually bind full time drivers to these events.  Additionally, they are going to have to find a way to keep "full time committed" drivers from straying away from the schedule to run events with other sanctioning bodies.  If that were my only chance to see those guys run, other than the Nats, I would have made arrangements to make it happen.  34 Raceway was in mid-May.  Davenport in early-June.  Didn't do it because all of those guys were in Knoxville in mid-June.  I don't know what the attendance was like at 34, or what it would have been like at Davenport.  But I do know a number of folks that held out to see those guys run in June, in the same vicinity.  

As many of you know, I'm a supporter of the WoO policy keeping their Platinum drivers under contract.  That is why.  The HL is going to have to tighten the reigns because I'm assuming it's their eventual goal to compete against the Outlaws all season without 3-4 week breaks.  Time will tell.

That all said, I enjoyed both series immensely this year, and hope both can continue to field full shows!  Just please be aware, if you are amongst those that thought the HL series was going to revolutionize the way drivers are paid and contracted for their services, you may end up very disappointed.  They are both running businesses and will make the changes necessary to protect their revenue--as they should.  

One thing never mentioned about the exclusivity vs freedom argument is that High Limit has yet to produce a full slate of races. Therefore they have no leverage in demanding their drivers to race only with them. As Egras has mentioned before, once this changes, you'll get restrictions or there will be so much overlap, it'll only be the Crown Jewels which feature guys from both series. 

I think you will find they will continue to let their drivers run the big shows that are not HL races in the future.  That is what they want to do run all the HL big shows as well as 

many of the Woo Big shows.. that way they can run for big money more often.  I don't see that changing anytime soon.

USAC continues to be a nice farm system for wanged fully assembled sprint car racing big leagues. 

kidding 

but not really 

The Capi or Front Row Challenge, pose no threat to the Outlaws draw for their premier event in Knoxville from Wednesday to Saturday.  None.  Everyone is in town for the Nats.   

The HL on the other hand, if they don't "tighten their belt" is allowing the possibility of a big show to be scheduled 100-200 miles down the road on an off night.  It doesn't matter if you "THINK" this would not affect the turnout at the HL race, it definitely WOULD affect the turnout at the HL show in a negative manner, especially if fans closer to the non-HL event decided to just wait a day or 2 to save travel.  We can keep pretending they won't do anything to hold their drivers from these potential events down the road.  They have to.  

Your last sentence "I don't know if they really care."  "The track promoting the HL shows might though."  Those go hand in hand.  If the track holding your shows cares, you HAVE to care.  

Outlaws pay more point money.   The “Outlaw” name has a ton of prestige and over 45 years of history.     The Outlaw tour has bigger, more famous races.    Yet somehow, HL got more full-time drivers in their first full season.   There are still 16 full timers.    This season many teams/drivers have cited the freedom and schedule as the reason they follow the HL tour.   

If HL does too much to “tighten their belt” then they risk losing drivers and then the teams could follow the Outlaws,  race true outlaw, or just race regionally.    My opinion is that losing drivers is a much bigger risk and more likely outcome than some promoter piggy backing off the schedule and pulling fans from a sanctioned HL race.    

This thread you started is called “High Limit going beyond 2024” and it has been a good discussion.     So… what changes do you expect HL to make next season ?    HL will likely make the official announcement in about 2 months so we will know soon.

The reason they only race so few races, if you call 60 a few, is so they can hit the big races of WOO and any other races they want when they are not racing HL.

spider i agree with this theory for now - what i and many others are trying to point out is that the charter system will require more money to support and this thought...........

"The reason they only race so few races, if you call 60 a few, is so they can hit the big races of WOO and any other races they want when they are not racing HL."

....most certainly will not generate any more money to support the charter system for the 2026 season.  WOO races  i can 100% guarantee have Zero benefit for the 2026 High Limit Charters teams/system.

I believe they will schedule more midweek shows. This is a huge revenue stream for streaming. I have noticed several midweek races on HL schedule that were not part of the midweek money series and I think it will continue to grow. I think the midweek money series will (and should) expand to about 12-15 shows per year. Probably around the bigger outlaw shows we have mentioned.  I can see this as an advantage for them too should one of those races get canceled because they may be able to race another smoewhere else. This was the case for their 81 speedway was that was rained out. Eight of their teams went and ran Jacksonville. Arguably the race of the year.

First this would be great for sprint car fans on flo more racing but.....

First, I believe the high limit product was good and some young and hungry bucks raced HARD!  Eventhough  my perception between the stand alone WoO and HL - was that HL just seemed to be harder racing (the carrot so to speak earning a charter - wheres WOO Platinum is established) - HL was still despite tough racing struggling for most midweek crowds. 

It is not a coincidence - Chase removed from his signature line/phrase just prior to green "and the grandstands packed" for a reason.

Those will solely argue it is about streaming monies - well if tracks can't get butts in the stands they won't host unless flo ponies up to the tracks and/or HL gives the break/reduced purse/sanction fees for the mid weekers.

Additionally  one could make a very valid arguement WOO has been the most successful traveling series over the last forty years and they have primarily thrived on Friday-Saturday shows.  Some may not recall WOO dipping their toes into the midweek reduced purse/fees shows some of which I attended  at Lincoln - history says it will not work for in Lincoln's case a multitude of reasons -  nor is it sustainable.

Third - if tracks owners/promoters thought midweek shows were/could be the draw some may think they are these sprint car hotbeds such Central PA would run more midweek shows.  Williamsgrove Friday, Port and Lincoln Saturday - with Baps, Selinsgrove trying Sundays not midweek shows.

For more midweek shows to be even considered by less established tracks or tracks in non traditional sprint car hotbeds tracks will most likely require an incentive to take the risk......were other tracks that are established wont even entertain the risk of a non weekend show.

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