Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

It is time for a change. Too much emphasis on qualifying. Guys timing in 1st or 2nd, start 6th in the heat and go backwards finishing 7th or 8th in the heat and still getting locked into A main based on points. Pretty riduculous. 

Terrible format. All competent cars should be inverted. The race director should be able to make that determination. 

And guys timing in 12th in their Goup, Winning their Heat Race and having to race in the B-Main.?????

Don't sound right?

For what it's worth, I think all formats should be straight up based on time trials. But what has a guy who was slow in time trials, benefited from a front row starting spot in his heat and pulls away on a one lane track in clean air actually accomplished? Im glad they don't blindly award a guy who has done nothing but benefit from an invert a position in the A Main. 

Having said that, if heats are meaningless, why have them? Which is why I agree some tweaking is likely needed. 

So your format would be time trials then the A Feature, no meaningless heats or qualifying races. Top 24 timers race a feature heads up and everyone else goes home.  I don't think you would have many fans or teams pulling into your track for your format. FWIW, I like USAC's format but beware it does have an invert.

Their format works perfectly.  I am not a fan of socialism. 

Bingo. Make heat races great again. Top 5 to the main. None of this quick time guy losing spots in the heat (sometimes on purpose) to get a front row starting spot in the main after the invert draw. Also if a guy wax's his heat and is rewarded with a front row B main spot that blows. Idk what the inverts or points or whatever need to be but everyone I sit with comments how heat races mean nothing now. 

They tried running them quick this weekend. Was fairly impressed. Few wrecks made it later but was rolling nicely Saturday before the mains.

Thankfully I think Knoxville is smart enough to look at ticket sales, car counts, and team support than some people crying on message boards who haven't ever ran or done anything in racing. Boo whoo if qualifying or the format does not entertain them. Format is the format get over it.

8 lap heats is plenty.  They are usually spaced out after alap or two anyway.  The only thing longer dashes would do is extend the program.  IRA runs 2 4 lap dashes, Outlaws at Beaver Dam ran 1 dash, 8 laps. I say it that way as I am not sure if that is their normal dash play or not.

Ironically, my son and I were just talking this weekend about how we think Knoxville has the best formats in the land with both weekly shows, and the 2 Nationals.  1 day later, you've got people wanting to blow it up.  I am baffled by anyone that thinks qualifying should not weigh heavy on lineup.  Your goal as a driver/team/owner should be to unload your car, and make laps as fast as it will go....period.  Every, single time on the track.  Hot laps should be used to figure out how to make the car go faster for a good qualifying run.  Qualifying should be used to set lineups based on who got their cars right.  Heats should either be lined up straight up, or by invert if passing points are used.  Finish order of heats should mean nothing if positions are "granted" based on this invert.  Ridiculous handicapping rules are not needed.  There is no reason the car that times 24th, and runs away from the pole of the heat to victory, should be guaranteed a spot in the feature.  That's ridiculous.  

I bought some tasty IPA's and watched Knoxville on Saturday night and enjoyed it.  Who even watches a race after a few beers and says "fuck no, this format is all wrong and I'm miserable on account of it?"

it was great just to wake up alive on Saturday morning.  Everything else was just icing on the cake.  

Stan Meissner

I've thought the format for the weekly should could be impoved. I was also waiting for the commentary on the effeciency of the show. From my point of view, USAC wasn't in a hurry. The wrecks slowed things down another 30+ mins. And Knoxville has a great experienced group of safety and push trucks. Some tracks have 1-3 push trucks / UTVs restarting an entire field. 
Since we're on the subject, what is everyone's favorite format, any track any sanctioning body? Or do we even know it well enough to recite it. 

Keep It Real

My favorite formats:

1.  Knoxville Nationals (only works for multiple day shows)

2.  Knoxville weekly shows---best format I've seen for a 1-night show

3.  World of Outlaws---if you're gonna line up heats and not accumulate points, or award passing points, it's gotta be straight up or there's no point in driving fast early in the night.  

Worst format, hand's down:  King's Royal    This is comparable to Nascar's use of Super-Speedway packages to manufacture excitment at Daytona, Talladega, and Atlanta.  I guess if I was a fan of the WWE, I could get on board.  

1.  Usac invert 6 in heats transfer 5 fastest 6 transferring in heats invert first 3 rows of A then the heat winners then by time for the rest

2. All Star format was best winged 410 I've seen. Only qualify against those in your heat it totally eliminated the pill draw lottery in woo and hl. It's a shame it didn't carry over to the new series. 

3.  Knoxville Nationals format 

4.  Chili bowl format 

5. WoO format 

6.  Hl format - don't like top 4 locking into 4th starting spot in heat and gettin a free pass to dash if transfer top 5 in heat on a 2 day show

7.  Kings Royal. Inverting 6 and taking 3 invites sandbagging

8. Any handicapped format. Worked in 1970s 80s and 90s not any more unless there are 2 guys .5 sec faster than everyone 

Who should've made the A-Main after qualifying/heats that didn't in place of 20th starting Tasker Phillips? 

Ayrton Gennetten?  He was the 8th car to qualify (out of 21 cars in Group 1) and was 10th quick (again, out of 21 Group 1 cars).  He started 2nd in his heat and backed up to 4th.  Not great.

Garret Williamson?  He was the 12th car out to qualify (out of 21 cars in Group 1) and was 11th quick (again, out of 21 Group 1 cars).  He started on the pole of his heat and backed up to 4th.  Again, not great.

Chris Martin?  He was the 19th car out to qualify (out of 20 cars in Group 2) and was 8th quick (again, out of 20 Group 2 cars).  He started 3rd in his heat and backed up to 6th.  That's not amazing either.  

Tasker came out early in Group 2 (2nd car out) and ended up 4th quick.  He started 5th in his heat and was running around 4th/5th when a parts failure in his rear axel/rear end caused his car to snap around, hit the wall, and flip.  He ended up getting scored in 8th.  

If your favorite driver is Gennetten/Williamson/Martin, it's ok to be frustrated that they had to run the B-Main.  However, please don't ignore the fact that they were mediocre at best in qualifying and equally mediocre/borderline bad in their heat!

It's amazing how unhappy it makes people when faster cars make the A, and slower cars make the LCQ.  I must not understand what the point of racing is.  When I attend a WoO race, the feature lineups always make sense.  When I attend, or watch, a Knoxville weekly show, the feature lineups always make sense.  When I attend the Knoxville Nationals, the lineups always make sense. 

Knoxville can do whatever they want to with the weekly shows, it does not really matter to them.

The 410 Nationals pay all of the bills for their track.

I don't believe this is true at all.  If my math is correct, the 30-something SEASONAL suites in the backstretch amount to in the neighborhood of around a cool mill.  I don't think they would bring in a milly for the 10 days of the Nats.  If my math is once again correct, 16 shows (assuming no rain outs) x $60,000 purse money per night, equals $960,000.   I would say the regular season, fair, and other events are very important to the financial well-being of the track.  Nats are the icing on the cake.  

I'm not exactly sure what people want - heats and qualifying both cap at 100 for a weekly show, dropping by two for every qualifying position and three for every heat race position. It seems balanced, especially when you're punishing the fast qualifiers with a six invert. 

Every qualifying system has an inherent flaw somewhere - I've grown to accept the ones utilized by most. As many have noted, I still agree the Nationals format to be the best. Every year there will be something flukey that hurts or helps a driver and position them where they shouldn't be, but I think the A starting lineups throughout the years speak for the system's effectiveness.

Doesn't seem broke to me and they're loading the pits most nights, so doesn't seem like the drivers have issues with it. 

There you go again...

Racing formats have nothing whatsoever to do with socialism, which means public ownership of the means of production. All this discussion of formats is about trying to make racing competitive & entertaining for the paying fans, in a profit seeking, capitalist enterprise

I don't start political discussions, but I fight back when somebody else does...

Back to racing, please