Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Different format could turn Williams Grove Yellow Breeches 500 around

I'm sorry but the car count arguement is something I have a hard time wrapping my head around sometimes.  If the track is paying extra money through the field all the way back to 24th, and they had 24 cars show up, I don't see how this is as big of a problem as they are trying to make it seem.  I know the weather was semi-warm but it was extremely windy.  Did anyone consider that a few teams stayed hoe because of that?

If they only had 16-20 cars then yes I can understand, but if they are only starting 24, why is it an issue that only 24 show up? 

Another question I have is how much higher is this purse over the standard Friday night purse?  Does anyone have a breakdown for all starting postions between the two purses?

I think the Grove pays $315 to start normally, so this is a big increase. Wind may have played a factor.

As a fan, other than an Outlaw show, I don't care if they have 40 cars or not. What I do enjoy though is a meaningful B Main. 28 cars would be nice weekly, 24 is a full field, but the whole "heats are meaningless because everyone qualifies" thing just isn't as good.

The purse for a regular night 

$25 Pit 1) $3,600 2) $2,000 3) $1,300 4) $1,100 5) $1,000 6) $850 7) $700 8) $600 9) $550 10) $500 11) $450 12) $400 13) $350 14) $330 15) $330 16) $325 17) $320 18-24) $315

$30 Pit 1) $3,800 2) $2,000 3) $1,300 4) $1,100 5) $1,000 6) $900 7) $725 8) $625 9) $575 10) $525 11) $525 12) $475 13) $450 14) $430 15) $430 16) $425 17) $420 18-24) $400

Bonuses: Win from starting positions 6-11 = $500; 12th+ = $1500

Yellow Breeches 500

1) $3,600 2) $2,000 3) $1,300 4) $1,100 5) $1,000 6) $850 7) $700 8) $600 9) $550 10-24) $500 Bonuses: Win from starting positions 6-11 = $500; 12th+ = $1500

I think the best format would be two rounds of heats with the first round drawn then a full invert for the second round of heats and points lining up the A and B mains. I think format would be great for fans as the fastest cars would not necessary start up the front and fans get to see more racing for their money. The format is used by some tracks in Australia and it works great.

I agree, the extra money is great, no doubt about it  but the only guys who benefit are the finishers from 11th to 24th with 24th position earning the biggest bonus of $185.  Now don't get me wrong, any increase in purse is great for drivers, but to assume the possibility of an extra $50 to $185 for finishing 11th to 24th would help pack the pits full of cars seems a bit naive at best.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who pays the bills on one of these 410 teams.  Your watching every penny and trying make things work on a budget.  Do you really think less than $200 is gonna make you run Williamsgrove when you didn't already plan on it? Not to mention if your not a regular or an outlaw your chances of doing well at Williamsgrove are slim to none, if they have more than 24 cars you will struggle to even qualify to be eligible for the pay increase. 

Somtimes you need to play the tape all the way till the end. Increased purse is great, but it certainly isn't a guarantee that it will increase car counts. Especially when costs have increased exponentially over the past 10 years while purses have remained the same, $185 might be a little too short and definitely way too late to make undecided teams choose to race at the Grove. 

Correction, 11th place gets +$50, 12th + $100, 13th + $150, 14th & 15th + $170, 16th + $175, 17th + $180, and 18th thru 24th get + $185, which totals a purse increase of $2290 for the yellow breeches 500.

Kudos to Williamsgrove for putting up the extra money.

I was there...the heats were a waste of time...draw for start and run 35 laps might have made a difference.

watching the 27 struggle to lose only 1 spot might have been the shocker of the night...Area 51 Reupted when Faster Freddy Rahmer drove right by him midway thru the race.

outside of the near miss for the lead by the 87 entering 1-2 on the final lap...it was a "jam it in on the bottom and root each other out" kinda of night.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Is Reupted an alien word for erupted?  Seriously, you capitalized it so I'm guessing you meant to spell it that way.

sorry...the keys on my phone are small...kinda like some folk's ability to discern.

the group of fans "ERUPTED" when the 51 with a teeenage driver drove right by the heavily funded 27...if you were nearby, you would have noticed.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Personally, I think the purse has ZERO to do with car counts.  A few seasons ago Knoxville tried this very thing for all weekly shows (paid $700 for 24th) and guess what, car counts were down that year and don't remember ever having a B-main outside of Outlaw shows and the Nationals that year.

Why?  Simple answer, the economy in the midwest was still bad at that time.  Teams didn't have sponsorship, thus the increase in purse made ZERO difference on car counts and if you asked the competitors, odds are is that they didn't know it was an increased purse until they got their check at the end of the night.  

Here we are a few years later and we had full B-mains multiple times last season and only had a handful of nights without one.  What changed?  The purse (it actually went back down to what it was before), and the economy got better.

Will a format change get more cars there?  doubtful in my mind, I guess I would go ask that teams that DIDN'T attend whey they didn't come.  If they make no mention of the purse or format, I'd say changing either of those things will have zero effect on car count.

I always thought that was the most fair format....

No need to rush out and start changing things. Especially the format.

Everything will turn out just fine. As the weather warms up, fields will increase all around. I think it's definitely a good move by Williams Grove to pay more money back through for these events. It may take awhile but I think if they stick with it, it will pay off. The fact that that they used handicapping didn't help either. If anything, they should just use a simple draw format or time trials to line these shows up. I love the Australian format but on a big half mile, that's a lot of stress on the motors and I know a lot of the teams wouldn't be too fond of that. While I think these shows will eventually attract some more cars in the future, I don't see a deal like this making any difference to the top teams. Guys like Dietrich, Hodnett, Stevie Smith etc. don't really give a shit what 11th pays because in their mind, it's all about winning. I'm sure however that they will appreciate having a little extra money if they have a bad night. They may find after a few shows that a few tweaks are needed but I think they should just stick with it for now and at least wait until the weather warms up. All in all, I think this series is a good thing.

All it means is an extra $200 doesn't mean much compared to the type of coin it takes to competitively run a 410 at the Grove. $1,500 low buck. $3000 hired gun team.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

I agree with most all thats been said here , at this point I would just wait and see how it plays out . Some more cars will
be coming out soon , but I do give the Grove credit for trying to do something for the teams . The costs to operate a 410 are  outrageous , but most teams are just picking and choosing where  they race .

another reasonable statement.... keep up the good work!

Thanks for keeping score revjimk, all your doing is fanning the flames, then when it erupts you can stand back and act like you have nothing to do with it and talk down to those who make nasty comments, great job

I do my best

Most overrated track in the country