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Topic: I would like to see a Wing Test
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October 22, 2015 at
10:23:24 AM
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Have a car and a good driver no matter the track size 1/4 to 1/2 mile. Do a test changing wings only. First put on todays flat wing with wicker bill and run 5 laps write down times. Come in put on a wing with NO side boards with a wicker bill run 5 laps write down times. Come in change wing side boards that are middled (centered) on the wing no Wicker Bill run 5 laps write down times. Change wing to a dished wing standard side boards run 5 laps write down times.
Also when changing wings have driver tell if car is tight on entry, middle, or exit or loose on entry, middle, or exit.
From watching how we have progressed in wing design, we started out with wing that were dished the side boards were also dished. Had 5 x 6 wings then set then at 5 x 5. The 5 x 5 had small side boards on the right side more than the left. But was not as big as today. Then the 5 x 5 wing got side boards that were the same size. But not as high as today. Then we went to the high low side boards we have today on dished wing. Back in the late 70's early 80's people tried flat wings not as good as the dished wings. But the side boards weren't as big. Then we went to what we have today flat wing , high side boards and a wicker bill.
From watching and talking to drivers and being on crews. The wings got better but the wings also made the cars tighter on entry because they were more for down force than rudder effect. As we went to the dished wing with a wicker bill the preasure point was more over the front of the cage drivers head area. As we have gone to the flat wing the preasure point of the wing moved back to the rear of the wing by the left side board and wicker bill. This causes the car to wing over and loosen the car on entry. When the car is winged over on exit it tightens the car up more left rear drive.
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October 22, 2015 at
11:18:49 AM
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It changes something, there were guys changing wings at knoxville durring the nationals in both the 360 and 410 between hotlaps, qualifying, and the heat races pretty often. Some guys were even changing flat top wins for different flat top wings in the 360's.
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October 22, 2015 at
01:58:42 PM
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And for the last run they have to somehow hook up all 4 designs and run them at the same time....hahaha
Remove the wings!! Problems solved!!
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October 22, 2015 at
03:56:13 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Keyboard Jockey on October 22 2015 at 11:18:49 AM
It changes something, there were guys changing wings at knoxville durring the nationals in both the 360 and 410 between hotlaps, qualifying, and the heat races pretty often. Some guys were even changing flat top wins for different flat top wings in the 360's.
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During hot laps you would run a junk wing maybe one you have fixed after a crash. Qualifying you want a less down force wing much like at Indy trim the car out. So my guess would be a wing with less of a belly in it. Then during the heats you go to the wing you are going to run in the main with the max down force because the track should have dried out by then.
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October 22, 2015 at
04:02:12 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: 19 Posse on October 22 2015 at 01:58:42 PM
And for the last run they have to somehow hook up all 4 designs and run them at the same time....hahaha
Remove the wings!! Problems solved!!
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I like the idea of remove, but just remove the side boards. Then you still have the protection of the center of the wing just no Ruddering effect. ......... LoL LoL
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October 22, 2015 at
04:10:44 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: sc lm race fan on October 22 2015 at 10:23:24 AM
Have a car and a good driver no matter the track size 1/4 to 1/2 mile. Do a test changing wings only. First put on todays flat wing with wicker bill and run 5 laps write down times. Come in put on a wing with NO side boards with a wicker bill run 5 laps write down times. Come in change wing side boards that are middled (centered) on the wing no Wicker Bill run 5 laps write down times. Change wing to a dished wing standard side boards run 5 laps write down times.
Also when changing wings have driver tell if car is tight on entry, middle, or exit or loose on entry, middle, or exit.
From watching how we have progressed in wing design, we started out with wing that were dished the side boards were also dished. Had 5 x 6 wings then set then at 5 x 5. The 5 x 5 had small side boards on the right side more than the left. But was not as big as today. Then the 5 x 5 wing got side boards that were the same size. But not as high as today. Then we went to the high low side boards we have today on dished wing. Back in the late 70's early 80's people tried flat wings not as good as the dished wings. But the side boards weren't as big. Then we went to what we have today flat wing , high side boards and a wicker bill.
From watching and talking to drivers and being on crews. The wings got better but the wings also made the cars tighter on entry because they were more for down force than rudder effect. As we went to the dished wing with a wicker bill the preasure point was more over the front of the cage drivers head area. As we have gone to the flat wing the preasure point of the wing moved back to the rear of the wing by the left side board and wicker bill. This causes the car to wing over and loosen the car on entry. When the car is winged over on exit it tightens the car up more left rear drive.
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There is no way you can get a reliable answer on this because the dirt track will change over period of time, the driver can not run exact same area of track each time and also if the driver knows what wing is on the car it can change the way he drives car.
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October 22, 2015 at
04:13:05 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: 19 Posse on October 22 2015 at 01:58:42 PM
And for the last run they have to somehow hook up all 4 designs and run them at the same time....hahaha
Remove the wings!! Problems solved!!
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If you like sprint cars without a wing, why not just attend a wingless show? For example, I like polo without the horses, so I watch hockey. You get the picture? I don't suggest they change polo to hockey. If you don't like winged sprint cars, don't watch winged sprint cars. I don't watch polo. ???
Leave the wings on the winged sprint cars.
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October 22, 2015 at
04:15:56 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: sc lm race fan on October 22 2015 at 03:56:13 PM
During hot laps you would run a junk wing maybe one you have fixed after a crash. Qualifying you want a less down force wing much like at Indy trim the car out. So my guess would be a wing with less of a belly in it. Then during the heats you go to the wing you are going to run in the main with the max down force because the track should have dried out by then.
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I think you are on the money there, HRP has a few different options including a shark wing that has a noticeably sharper, less blunt front edge to cut through the air for tacky laps, eg qualifying and then a larger blunt edged wing for max downforce on slick tracks including a bigger belly. Believe it changes the low pressure/high pressure air flows around the centre foil which sucks the car down even more. Saldana trialled a super blunt top wing a few times this year with the Outlaws and Schatz is known for changing wings during a race night as do others.
Technology has come such a long way that simply specifying flat wing and wicker bill size doesnt cover the range of options anymore.
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October 22, 2015 at
05:58:55 PM
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This message was edited on
October 22, 2015 at
05:59:49 PM by sc lm race fan
Reply to:
Posted By: linbob on October 22 2015 at 04:10:44 PM
There is no way you can get a reliable answer on this because the dirt track will change over period of time, the driver can not run exact same area of track each time and also if the driver knows what wing is on the car it can change the way he drives car.
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Interesting answer. So you are saying no driver can hit the cushion for 25 laps with in 6 to 8 inches. or the bottom with in 6 or 8 inches.
During hot laps if there are 40 cars and each runs 10 laps thats 400 laps. So you are saying a track changes that much for one car in 25 to 50 laps? If not during hot laps after the race the track should be hard.
This is a test so you do it 3 -4 , or more times. Get average times and over all time for each wing style.
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October 22, 2015 at
06:33:31 PM
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You have me thoroughly confused......
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October 22, 2015 at
08:24:32 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on October 22 2015 at 04:13:05 PM
If you like sprint cars without a wing, why not just attend a wingless show? For example, I like polo without the horses, so I watch hockey. You get the picture? I don't suggest they change polo to hockey. If you don't like winged sprint cars, don't watch winged sprint cars. I don't watch polo. ???
Leave the wings on the winged sprint cars.
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Well said Egras
Gary Allbuagh
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October 22, 2015 at
08:33:24 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: sc lm race fan on October 22 2015 at 10:23:24 AM
Have a car and a good driver no matter the track size 1/4 to 1/2 mile. Do a test changing wings only. First put on todays flat wing with wicker bill and run 5 laps write down times. Come in put on a wing with NO side boards with a wicker bill run 5 laps write down times. Come in change wing side boards that are middled (centered) on the wing no Wicker Bill run 5 laps write down times. Change wing to a dished wing standard side boards run 5 laps write down times.
Also when changing wings have driver tell if car is tight on entry, middle, or exit or loose on entry, middle, or exit.
From watching how we have progressed in wing design, we started out with wing that were dished the side boards were also dished. Had 5 x 6 wings then set then at 5 x 5. The 5 x 5 had small side boards on the right side more than the left. But was not as big as today. Then the 5 x 5 wing got side boards that were the same size. But not as high as today. Then we went to the high low side boards we have today on dished wing. Back in the late 70's early 80's people tried flat wings not as good as the dished wings. But the side boards weren't as big. Then we went to what we have today flat wing , high side boards and a wicker bill.
From watching and talking to drivers and being on crews. The wings got better but the wings also made the cars tighter on entry because they were more for down force than rudder effect. As we went to the dished wing with a wicker bill the preasure point was more over the front of the cage drivers head area. As we have gone to the flat wing the preasure point of the wing moved back to the rear of the wing by the left side board and wicker bill. This causes the car to wing over and loosen the car on entry. When the car is winged over on exit it tightens the car up more left rear drive.
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What's stopping you from doing this test????
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October 22, 2015 at
08:47:24 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on October 22 2015 at 04:13:05 PM
If you like sprint cars without a wing, why not just attend a wingless show? For example, I like polo without the horses, so I watch hockey. You get the picture? I don't suggest they change polo to hockey. If you don't like winged sprint cars, don't watch winged sprint cars. I don't watch polo. ???
Leave the wings on the winged sprint cars.
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Right on man. I get so sick and damn tired of hearing people saying "take the wings of" news flash, THEY ALREADY EXIST. Go watch them. I just happen to like them both but I do like winged sprints a little better. To each his own. Maybe winged fans should go to wingless tracks and lobby for them to use wings? Bet the holier than thou wingless snobs wouldn't like that too much.....
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October 23, 2015 at
07:27:15 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on October 22 2015 at 04:13:05 PM
If you like sprint cars without a wing, why not just attend a wingless show? For example, I like polo without the horses, so I watch hockey. You get the picture? I don't suggest they change polo to hockey. If you don't like winged sprint cars, don't watch winged sprint cars. I don't watch polo. ???
Leave the wings on the winged sprint cars.
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Good post Sarge, firing on all cylinders. Speaking of Wingless, I am seriously looking into going to Indiana next year at some point to take in a couple good shows. Do you want me to keep you in the loop? Go Hawks, or whoever they are.....
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October 23, 2015 at
10:44:16 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: maddog53 on October 23 2015 at 07:27:15 AM
Good post Sarge, firing on all cylinders. Speaking of Wingless, I am seriously looking into going to Indiana next year at some point to take in a couple good shows. Do you want me to keep you in the loop? Go Hawks, or whoever they are.....
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Do it! You won't be disappointed
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October 23, 2015 at
10:49:31 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on October 22 2015 at 04:13:05 PM
If you like sprint cars without a wing, why not just attend a wingless show? For example, I like polo without the horses, so I watch hockey. You get the picture? I don't suggest they change polo to hockey. If you don't like winged sprint cars, don't watch winged sprint cars. I don't watch polo. ???
Leave the wings on the winged sprint cars.
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Good one...
Reminds of the old George Carlin routine that all sports are variations of ping pong: Tennis is pingpong played standing on the table...
Football is pingpong where you stand on a really big table made of grass & run with the ball... etc, 
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October 23, 2015 at
12:49:44 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: fiXXXer on October 22 2015 at 08:47:24 PM
Right on man. I get so sick and damn tired of hearing people saying "take the wings of" news flash, THEY ALREADY EXIST. Go watch them. I just happen to like them both but I do like winged sprints a little better. To each his own. Maybe winged fans should go to wingless tracks and lobby for them to use wings? Bet the holier than thou wingless snobs wouldn't like that too much.....
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So you're calling a bunch of old farts in overalls, sprint t-shirts, & John Deere hats "Snobs"?!?
How bout "fans"?
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October 23, 2015 at
12:51:45 PM
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Now if you called polo fans "snobs", I would agree...or croquet...
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October 23, 2015 at
06:14:47 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: maddog53 on October 23 2015 at 07:27:15 AM
Good post Sarge, firing on all cylinders. Speaking of Wingless, I am seriously looking into going to Indiana next year at some point to take in a couple good shows. Do you want me to keep you in the loop? Go Hawks, or whoever they are.....
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Definitely keep me in the loop! Have one big trip planned for next summer but other than that I am going to TRY to hit more sprint car races!
Hawks-seem to be holding it together for now. How about that new kid, Panarin? (spelling?) May be the real deal, eh?
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October 23, 2015 at
06:31:10 PM
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A wind tunnel would be more accurate than a driver's opinion or ability.
Its a waste of time discussing wings, they arent the answer to cheaper or beter racing.
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