Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

1)There are at least 4 teams in Sioux Falls who are looking for 410's for next year, and I would imagine with the Jackson announcement, at least 1-2 teams there that are building 410's.  The Jackson announcement is only going to accelerate this.  If anything, this whole deal is going to build 410 racing in the midwest to a high level.  Some of the season ending racing could get between 25-30 cars instead of the 15 that showed up at Eagle last year.

2)There have to be full time teams based in PA and Ohio as well as California who have to be looking at the purse for the NSL shows vs. racing with the Outlaws, All Stars or Posse and will at least explore relocating to the midwest.  Add in the 250k Gold Cup, the 130k plus Jackson Nationals and there is some SERIOUS money to be made by top teams.

3)  I am hopeful your comment about Central PA is sarcasm.  Lincoln is 79 miles from Port Royal.  There are no 2 winged sprint car tracks in the country as closely located as these 2 that compete for cars and fans, and both seem to do pretty well.  Husets is 333 miles from Knoxville.  To put that in context for you, Husets "competing" for 410's is similar to stating that Mercer Speedway is competing for cars with Lincoln (280 miles from Mercer) and Port Royal (170 miles from Mercer).

Knoxville is going to be in good shape this year as they lock up more stars and should limit any drivers leaving for Badlands.  Even better, they don't have to pay the extra purse money as the NSL has to be covering the difference between the base purse and the 100 percenter purse.

Badlands most likely will see similar crowds on Saturdays as their Sunday shows and continue to average between 15-20 410 cars.  They averaged 18 on non NSL nights during 2015. 

Jackson will be interesting to watch, as they are the furthest away from a large population base.  I struggle to see how their model is sustainable at those purse levels, but car counts should be stellar and the Jackson Nationals should be well attended as there is no Knoxville or Badlands to compete against.

The question will be the fans.  Knoxville will still be $15 a night.  Badlands is a mess of ticket costs as they vary, but I am guessing between $17-$20 per night if you don't have one of the ticket packages.  Jackson will be ???  They have the biggest purse to handle so I am guessing $18 per night as that was the direction Tod wanted to go per one of the above post.

For 100% participation you will probably have...Brown,mccarl,Madsen,Jeffery,Balog,lasoski,clauson, kaeding....swindell? Blaney? Veal? Loyet? 

Jackson charged $25 for the NSL last year

I stand corrected, thank you. Jackson held just two NSL races this past racing season. Both of which were not a normal NSL race. The first, in May paid $10,000.00 to win and indeed was a $25.00 adult ticket. The second event was the NSL Jackson Nationals with I believe the $130,000 total purse. Adult tickets were $30.00 general admission and $35.00 reserved. 

I am all for the NSL but some of you forget that some drivers/owners have a real job that they go to from  say 8am to 4 PM 5 days a week and can not make long trips on say friday night.  I think the NSL plan will work out fine for drivers if they can do it.

Why in the world would anybody want to race for $5,000 when they could race for $3,000? 

Racing teams not running more than their weekly track is not unusual no matter what the track or series.  Some have work and family commitments and are content racing one night a week.  The way I'm seeing this it's going to require a 100% commitment from the drivers to get off work early every Friday afternoon and a commitment from car owners to keep the rig running up and down the road with fresh equipment.  A few bad nights in close succession can wipe out these small teams no matter how big the carrot at the end of the stick is. 

The general concensus seems to be that a bunch of weekly racers are waiting in the wings to make this kind of commitment.  Generally I find when fans think like that it means their whole perspective of the sport comes from the top row of the stands and is viewed through beer googles.  I think it would do this message board a great service if we all knew some car owners, drivers and promoters on a personal basis to help us put these things in perspective. 

Stan Meissner

I normally dont involve myself in these types of things but i will on this because it directly effects me and i would like to shed some light on how I feel on this.

First of all, i am a big supporter in what Tod has done to help juice up 410 sprint car racing in the midwest.  He has done a good job to bring the show to race tracks that put on great sprint car races for the most part, and has aligned all of the big names in the area to put his show on.  I did not compete in many of his races, but i do commend him for creating something great for 410 guys to have alot of places to race pretty close to home with a phenomenal points fund.

Now we have the 2016 version on the series and this is where i strongly disagree.  I am a small business owner that races once a week, april through september, aka knoxville season, and if i happen to have a car thats in one piece or an engine thats not on its last leg, i will go to other races.  The reason i dont race more is a combination of lack of time and lack of funds.  In my race shop sits one complete racecar with engine, and enough parts in the trailer to put a 2nd car together if i had another frame.  So financially, i cant afford to race elsewhere in the summer with that type of equipment because i need to try my hardest to be at knoxville everyweek and be elgible for all the parts and money that knoxville gives all of the drivers.  The 2-5 thousand dollar check i recieve in november gives me a good head start into the winter to build on the following year, and if i go travel and blow my engine or junk my racecar in the middle of the summer, i also have to sitout from knoxville and possibly lose out on the end of the year points deal.   Time is also a big factor, as i said, i run a small plumbing business and i hardly have time to get my racecar ready everyweek just to run knoxville.  My brother in law helps me on the racecar every saturday and as much as he can during the week in between being a family man.  So i say all of that to say this.....

For a series to come to knoxville and have 2 completely seperate purses is complete garbage.  Do I understand that this is their way of keeping cars from Husets? Absolutely.  Do I understand that they have to put on a good show for the fans by having big name racecar drivers at their events? Absolutely.  Do I understand that my paycheck is still going to be the same as it has been for the past 4 or 5 years? Absolutely.  But to tell me that I am not worth the same amount of money because I cant follow your 2 track series is a slap in the face.  If i could, i would love to, it is paying good money for a 100% member, but it is not possible for me.  Some of you think that this racing deal is as easy as pushing it in the trailer and heading to the racetrack, but it is not.  It costs me roughly $1000 a night at knoxville, based on averages of expenses in a 20 race schedule, and probably in 8-12 hours a week in the shop to race one night a week and that is financially hard for me as well as difficult to find the time.  I bust my ass at work and pinch pennies to be able to do this one night a week and get my ass kicked every week on the track because its hard to compete with the big money teams with the equipment i have.  This new plan only puts more money into the pockets of the teams that already have alot of money, hence the reason they can race 100% of the schedule.  I could go on and on about this but ive already said plenty, the bottom line is that the majority of the knoxville field are normal working men that do this for a hobby like myself and now they get told that bringing your car to the racetrack once a week is not worthy of extra money.  And let me assure you, i am in the vast majority on this subject when in comes to the people paying the bills and strapping in to these racecars.  This is not a pity party, no one makes me piss all my money and free time away on this sport, i do it because i love it, but with that being said, some respect for the little guys in this sport would be much appreciated.

I understand your situation. The thing I don't understand is this. How is your situation ever going to change if a series like the NSL doesn't become strong and successful? That you can't run the entire deal is unfortunate. But as you stated....it remains the same for you. Nobody is taking anything away from you. You may not be able to help the NSL succeed by participating, but you sure can by vrebaly supporting it. Would you rather begrudge others the opportunity? That seems selfish to me.

Absolutely not, I'm happy for guys that can run that series and actually quite jealous of them to be honest, I would love to be able to do that.  My argument is that this new pay deal is a plan to attract racecars.  The cars that you attract are teams that can AFFORD to do so, which in 2016 will probably draw 3 or 4 cars that weren't there this year because of the fact that it is good money. However, if they pay that 100% purse to 100% of the cars that show up, you will get more cars like me that can make ends meet to go race for a purse like that and bring in alot more cars, I guarantee it.  It is possible that you then get a watered down series with 10 big names and 25 dustin selvages and they may not want that lol.

People, would it be okay if the World of Outlaws did the same thing? Let's take the recently completed race at Williams Grove for example. What would the reaction be, as it was an Outlaws sanctioned race, if the Outlaws would have $50,000 to win as long as it's a 100% Outlaws racer and, say, 30 grand to win for any non-regular? You'd hear the screaming all the way to Knoxville (mostly from Pennsyltuckey). I just think there has to be better ways to increase participation in the NSL rather than have differing payouts. If a race is advertised as a five grand to win race, it should pay five grand no matter who wins.

Badlands just released this...

-Austin Rankin

obviously Mr. Badlands isn't going to play ball with Knoxville and NSL...this is going to be an interesting winter.

I completely understand your situation Mr. Selvege, I too was once in the same type of low budget Saturday night program. However, I disagree with your point of view. Your post comes across to me as if your a whiny, sniveling, selfish crybaby. Get over this whole thing about feeling like its a slap in the face. Everyone whining about this being unfair for the person who can't make every race must be the same people voting for the fricken democrats that want to give everyone who can't live like the wealthy, a piece of their pie...and not make them work for it. I would venture a guess the majority of the people who think this NSL pay out proposal are the people who think its unfair for the last place kid to not get a trophy too. Now we live in a world where we can't possibly hurt someones feelings, so now we have participant trophies for kids. I know, I'm not comparing apples to apples, but my point is...its this type of liberal mentality that's killing sprint car racing and everything else America was built upon. As I said in a previous post...LIFE ISN'T FAIR. Deal with it and stop bitchin and moanin.

So Dustin. You said you hardly raced in any of the NSL shows out side of Knoxville. And you also say that if he pays 100% of the purse to 100% of the cars it will attract more guys like you? But you said you can't travel based on time and money? So basically what your saying is you want to enjoy all the benefits that a team next year that is going to hire a couple full time crew guys. Invest 100% of their time to make the NSL work and grow. But you only want to do the exact same thing that you've been doing for in the past? So if Todd said ok guys everyone gets the same purse how many Jackson shows will you attend to support Mr. Quiring and his track by him supporting you?

Angell Park co sanctioned with the IRA was $25.00

Next year at Knoxville the first race I attend I'm buying a Dustin Selvage t'shirt.

It is a slap on the face to him and the other race teams that are not mega buck teams that can't afford to race more than 1 night a week.

I would attempt to make more shows if that is the payout for everyone.  The payout that we have now is not bad by any means but if your not winning races it's only enough to maintain throughout the year.  With the 100% purse, a guy could actually get ahead financially, which in turn helps build a better inventory of parts to be able to race more and support the series.  Would I run 100%? No, but I would definitely do what I can to go up there when possible and race for good money. And no I don't want to do the same thing I have in years past, I want to race more, and the 100% purse would allow me to race a little more, but the way that it is in place now, nothing changes for me due to the fact that I can't compete at all of those races, therefore I continue racing for the same money I always have and just maintain, not grow.

A number of posters have already expressed some of these very points but here goes...

For those that are saying that non-NSL racers will be racing for less money in 2016, that's not true. If you ran an NSL race in 2015 that paid the standard NSL purse, or the weekly Knoxville Raceway purse, and you ran 5th in the main you received a check for $1,000. If you run 5th in the main in 2016 at any NSL race that pays the standard purse, or Knoxville Raceway's weekly purse, you will receive a check for the same $1,000. If you win the main event in this same scenario you will receive a check for $3,000 which is the same check that you would have received in 2015. There is no finish positions that will pay less in 2016 than they did in 2015. So when somebody says that racers are racing for less money in 2016 than they did in 2015, it's simply not true.

The fact that the NSL racers who commit to running the NSL 100% of the events in 2016 will be racing for more money than the teams that can not run 100% of the NSL races, they were last year also. Those race teams were racing for more money each and every night because they were paid tow money for their loyal support of the NSL, and they were also racing for more money in the form of a very nice points fund which they received a huge check at the end of the year.

The 2015 NSL teams that ran the minimum amount of races to qualify received their share of the NSL point fund which paid in excess of $300,000 at season's end. Those point fund checks were money that those teams raced for each and every night, they simply didn't receive this money until the season was over. So in reality, these teams were running for about $11,000 more each night than the teams that didn't run the minimum amount of races. In 2016, these teams will receive a good portion of this bonus money each night instead of all of the money at the end of the season. They will be competing for a very nice pot of money at the end of the year also.

We know that some of our teams were struggling to make it to the end of the season as they had some rough times and the racing budgets get low, and this will help them continue to make the end of year races. This will also benefit the fans, as well as the race track promoters, because it means that these race teams will have a better chance of supporting the races at the end of the season where in other circumstances they might not be able to.

Another way to look at it is if your team plans to race with us 100% and you do for the first half of the season but for some reason your schedule hits a snag and you fall out of the minimum requirement, you still earned whatever bonus money that you received up to that point. Where in 2015, once you fell below the minimum qualified races for the point fund, you would have received no point fund or bonus money at all. We feel this program is a win win for all the race teams. Those that plan to follow us 100% will benefit from the added money paid nightly and those that choose not to, or can't for various reasons, will still be competing for the same purse dollars that they did in 2015.

With this program we are simply stating, if you commit to us, we will commit to you. We know that there's no way to satisfy everybody and in this case it depends on whether you see the glass as half empty or half full. Either way, the amount of water in the glass is the same.

We would like to wish all race teams the best of luck in 2016 where ever they choose to race...cz

Thank you Mr. Selvage for posting your thoughts. It is wonderful to hear a driver's perspective on anything.

Sadly, drivers and car owners rarely post on here any more because of they way that they have been treated. It used to be a common, almost daily occurence, but now such interactions are few and VERY far between.

Again; thank you Mr. Selvage. Hopefully you won't get torn up the way that most people who post opposing views do.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.