Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Greg Hodnett captures eighth win of the season in entertaining Sprint Car feature at Williams Grove Speedway

(19) 410s...two heat format...fan count of a back gate event without the back gate field of cars.

how many petals can fall off of a rose and still be a rose?

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

So what's going on in possy land?? I've never heard so much complaining about low car and fan counts before!?!?

Not a posse problem, it's a Williams Grove problem.  Lincoln and Port Royal have full fields and full stands.

At the end of the day, I think the problem is the perception of no passing and bad racing. I believe fans look at the track prep as the culprit. 

However, last night's crowd was better and the racing was really good. Passing in the heats and the feature was one of the best of the season from the standpoint that it wasn't just one or two guys. It was a bunch of guys.

It should also be noted that the Grove recognizes there is a problem, and they are trying to fix it. Track prep guy was talking to drivers during the night. 

Yeah, unfortunately, there is a perception issue there as well, so they may not see a turnaround immediately even if they get the problems fixed.  Also Krietz was in Knoxville and Marks was at Attica.  That is only 2 cars, but cars are cars. 

I think part of the issue now is that although there are a good number of teams, they don't have the money they used to.  Many can only afford to race regularly one night a week, so they pick a Saturday track and go there, where it doesn't interfere as much with regular jobs, and although their are more cars, they feel they have a better chance of competing.  THe local counts are still good for the bigger races at the Grove, but the regular shows and some of the less prestigious time trial shows are suffering.

Based on the crowds I have seen at LIncoln and Port the last couple of years, I think Grove can recover, but its going to take awhile to rebuild goodwill with the fans and a consistent surface for an extended period of time to get the drivers back.

What is good in PA right now is that although many of the "big" car owners are bailing, there have been a large number of young guns and 358 drivers moving up to the 410 ranks the last 3-4 years and being competitive, and the 358 division has recovered this year with their car counts as well.  That is good news for the longer term health of local sprint car racing.  Modified racing in New York and Jersey is having trouble because the same guys have been dominating for 25+ years and there aren't a ton of young guns moving up and sticking with racing...car counts are really down there.  Sprints in PA seem to be going the other way and that is a good sign.

Yes but track prep is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the problems at Williamsgrove. The whole place needs a refresh from top to bottom. The inertia from the history of this track is not enough to keep fans and drivers happy as there has been a steady decline of fans for quite a few years now, the thrill is gone but it can be recaptured. The definition of insanity is doing things the same way and expecting a different outcome, well they have been doing things the same way at Williamsgrove for many years and as you can see, the outcome has stayed the same: a run down, antiquated track that tries to make up for the lack of paying customers by raping people at the concession stand. but hey they have the best weekly fireworks show in the country, unfortunatley the fireworks in the sky are often times better than the racing on the track. This is not going to be an easy fix, restoring this track to the elite world famous facilty it once was is going to take time and money. Time is running out and money is being spent on fireworks instead of putting it back into the track that so desperatly needs it. Port Royal used to be the armpit of Pa 410 tracks and they have worked and put lots of money and blood sweat and tears into that track and now its arguably the best 410 track in Pa. Williamsgrove needs to follow Ports lead and get passionate about the track and take pride in giving their customers a nice track.

Hey shernernum sorry for basicly saying the same thing you said, I was typing while you were typing LOL

The bigger the motor track, the bigger the dollars wasted. They are too expensive. Open CID, smaller harder tires and a wing angle rule and even Selinsgrove would be thriving again much less Williams Grove. It would cut the cost to field a competitive car in half over the long run because owners wouldn't have to chase the latest engines all the time. If you can spin the tires at will, the latest greatest heads aren't necessary. Fans would also eat up unlimited sprint cars driven by all the best low buck studs from all the different classes (410, 360, 358, 305, sportsman, micro) competing against each other every week instead of what you have now.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Agree. It's going to take time, but the theory that they don't care and aren't trying anything is ridiculous. Hopefully, they keep moving in the right direction.

I agree to a point. The concessions are a little pricy. However, the facility hasn't been updated but the other facilities are still catching up, whether it is bathrooms, grounds, etc. That's not saying the other tracks aren't making improvements, they are doing a good job.

Sure, the Grove isn't Knoxville or Eldora, but it isn't bad. I can think of plenty of other facilities that host Sprint Car events in Pennsylvania that are worse. People don't say anything negative because they like the promoter or the racing is good at the end of the night. 

Fix the product, and the problem goes away. 

I haven't attended a race at Williams Grove in almost 5 years.  In my opinion the track has been on a down hill slide for about that period of time.  Unitl "Rachel Phelps" sells the "team" I will continue to boycott Williams Grove.  I care about the results but I refuse to participate in supporting her cause.

That's one of the interesting things....for a weekly track, the Grove is actually a very nice and accessible facility and you are right, the other tracks in the area are still catching up to that even with the stagnation of improvements facility .   Port has made huge improvements and the bathrooms will be some the icing on that cake, LIncoln is a fun atmosphere, with consistently good racing and track surface, and has some great concession options but it is still concrete hillside bleachers and pretty awful bathrooms.  However, in terms of overall facilities the Grove is still the best.  It is at heart, a place that holds weekly regular shows but is made  for big events, and has the space and setup to handle them that  others do not.

However, it has also over the years positioned itself as one of the big three (with Eldora and Knoxville) tracks in the country.  When it comes to that comparison, the Grove does lack.  The one thing it did have over the others was the quality of the local field.  However that gap is narrowing....as Knoxville has a tremendous weekly field now and as long as the ASCOC keeps moving in the right direction the Ohio boys are closing the gap as well. 

The thing with the Grove is that, when the surface is right, even with the long straights the racing can still be pretty awesome.  Also, if initiative was taken, the Grove can do things at and with its facility because of its size and foundation that the other tracks could never hope to match.  The potential is there, hopefully the willingness of those in charge is as well.

Good to see they're getting the track prep in order.

Maybe they care now that people are starting to go away but the whole reason they gave this problem to begin with is because they didn't care enough before. She inherited the place and at that point in time, it was still the Williams Grove of old so she was just content to sit on it and make as much money as possible while spening the least amount possible. The track went to shit, the food got terrible and way too damn expensive, the fields started to dwindle and the crowds got worse and worse as a result. I won't claim for one minute that I'd be a great race track owner but I've been going to sprint car races since I dropped from the womb and I know what I see and Williams Grove has been mismanaged ever since Kreitzer left and its been a steady decline since then. Pinky has pissed off a lot of people for various reasons and she didn't care until it was starting to take money out of her greedy hands. I realize running a business is all about turning a profit and making money but when you have a blatant disregard for what your customers want to see, this is what you get. People find other places to spend their money especially when you have 2 Saturday night tracks who do care about the fans and put on a good show.