Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Wider not always better: Making Sprint Car tires narrower could result in better racing

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

+1   I don't know if it's the cars, tires, or track configuration, but for $25 to see ASCS and $35 to see WoO I'd sure like to see more racing at Devils Bowl.   Especially true for the freight train heat races...

too bad they've made the tires narrower of the past few years, yet the racing has gotten worse.....

Maybe there is more to it than just tires......and narrowing them may do nothing to make the racing better.

Lots of things that could be addressed, but it's technology.  Unless you make the rules so that there can be ZERO innovation, you are always trying to catch up with what technology has to offer.  Narrowing the tires will help for maybe a year, then the teams and manufacturers will have figured out a way to get the horsepower down again using shocks, downforce from the wing, or something else.

The sad part is that the competitors TOLD the powers that be what would happen and it fell on deaf ears.  The cars are MORE HOOKED UP with the narrower tires than they were with the wider tires.  Someone in an office can't make the rules, they don't drive them so they have no idea what the rule will actually cause (just what they "think" it will do).  99% of the time, it's been the exact opposite of what they intended the rule to do.

I would disagree that the racing is worse than on wider tires. And per competitors, the cars aren't hooked up as much as the last Hoosier Tire deal. That is when the racing was worse.

Narrow them up a little more, and guys — the ones that have lived and raced through 80s, 90s and current deal — have said it would be even better. Is the racing terrible, no. That is overblown. But it could be better.

Smaller wings, no nose wing.

Then you have all that product going to waste. 

Lol. Recycle.

Lol. But I think you want to keep the look of a 410 Sprint Car the same. Take the nose wing off and change top wing, and you have a Super Sportsman on steroids.

if racing doesnt improve enough to survive, the look of a 5x5 / 4.5 x 4.5 / 4x4 will mno longer matter!

been going to see sprints since 1964 and this year I'm looking forward to a trip to Lorain County Speedway in OH for ISMA Supers MORe than any other vent on my calendar...

yes...they have wings...and they are locked down on asphalt...take a look at their rule book and see why the cars have more variation than 410s.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Really??  You ask the WoO teams and they'll tell you the cars got MORE STUCK DOWN when they narrowed the tires and made the cars tighter (and with the air being so important nowadays, made it even HARDER TO PASS CARS).

Does something need to be done?  probably, but it's just a bandaid unless they put a stop to other changes.

All major auto racing has the same issues, downforce and aero push.  Indy, F1, NASCAR, WoO, etc.  Just changing the tires isn't going to make it easier for guys to pass (it may make it even harder).

Agreed. Dont change the look. We have got to a point where cars dont change looks that much from year to year. I think if you change the looks the racing will loose some of its luster.

Are these the same tires that Schatz used to win the Nationals from

21 ? 

The left rear is the key. Narrow it up. And I have talked to WoO drivers, past and present. PRetty knowledgeable guys that say narrow would be better on the left rear.

Also talked to a number of drivers that said it's not a popular stance because it would hurt some drivers ability to win. It;s going to always reward the better driver, crew chief, etc.

And Dewease says they don't need to run the outlaws rules. Just run outlaw stuff when the outlaws come to town. Gee cube, thats the opposite of what you said in another thread. And it is what Knoxville does!!!

They are. There are a few examples this year how the racing has improved from the previous Hoosier deal, which was before the Goodyear deal. In Pa, Susky and Port Royal races a few weeks ago for example. 

I think we need to look at something else: what makes a good race? Because that has obviously changed in the eyes of fans. Some say it is a battle for the lead. Some say that it is guys coming through. Others say you need both. It's definitely turned into an issue that is in the eye of the beholder.

The Grove All Star race was outstanding.Old school Grove goodness.

Those types of races there have been too few over the past few years, and that, coupled with some bad mismanagement have led to issues there. Lincoln seems to still be doing very well, Port Royal is having a renaissance, Susky is a dump but still has some of the best racing. Let's not oversell this.

As far as the WoO is concerned, while not every race is great, they usually put on a good show. The 2 races from Pevely and Haubstadt last weekend looked great on YouTube.

Agree it's in the eye of the beholder.  To me, the racing today is 100x better than it was when I was a kid growing up in the 1980's (at that time, only 3-4 cars would finish on the lead lap in a 20 lap race, and only 12 of 24 starters would finish the race most of the time).  Guys like Steve, Sammy and Doug could make big charges from the back, but their equipment was LIGHT YEARS ahead of everyone else's.  Today, it can be done if your car is PERFECT (see Schatz's charge from the B Main to win the Nationals a couple years ago as an example).

To me, narrowing up the tires will make the racing worse (you might have a guy that hits the set up once in a while and charges through the field, but overall, IMO, it would make it HARDER TO PASS since Aero is so important at the big tracks.  Might make it more fun on the short tracks, but not sure they need the help currently.

I don't believe there is a magic bullet (whether it be tires, wings, engines, shocks, etc.) to make passing easier (which IMO, it shouldn't be easy to pass anyone, if I want to watch people passing easily, I'll watch a NASCAR race when they pull over and let someone by).  It will take a combination of everything and that costs a lot of $$$ to team owners, and that is not a good idea at all.

A good race is any race that Stevie Smith wins...haha...

Seriously..Though.

To me...Now a days....A feature is what a fan puts into it....While the cars are rolling around and the line ups are being read...I take notice to guys starting in the rear that are known to do a lot of passing...I take notice to whom is upfront and known to stay up front...

Hodnett went from 13th to win at port earlier this year...There is passing happening...I see lots of guys go from the front to the rear weekly as well!!

Narrow up the tires and you just put everyone in the preferred groove and continue the follow the leader style we are accustomed too...

Open up the sport to innovation....No matter what you have to put the power to the track...Forced induction....Open tire rules..Open wing rules...What would we call that...? Outlaws...Oh wait..That name is taken...

Good debate...Just like the one on twitter this afernoon.