Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Sitting in the parking lot at Lincoln Park Speedway in Putnamville, IN (stock cars running now).  Just watched non-wing sprint cars run 4 heats and 2 B-mains after drawing for starting positions and awarding passing points.  Of those 6 races, 5 were won from the front row, and in 3 of them the front row starters finished 1-2.  Yes according to some, this system (or some similar combination) would make World of Outlaws racing better.

Now, having said that. . . I actually thought the racing was pretty good, especially the B-mains.  As I've pointed out in other posts: just because a race winner starts up front doesn't mean the racing was bad.  

Oh by the way--saw one of the most AMAZING things I've EVER seen in sprint car racing during the second B-main:  Dave Darland started in row 5, and worked his way up to second (final transfer spot), then lost his left front wheel entering turn 3 coming for the white flag.  The wheel sailed off the track, the race stayed green, and Darland HELD ONTO SECOND WHILE RACING ON 3 WHEELS FOR MORE THAN A FULL LAP!

"Oh by the way--saw one of the most AMAZING things I've EVER seen in sprint car racing during the second B-main:"

 That just tells me you haven't seen very many non winged races Johnny.

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

Right on

The A-main was excellent too, but again, some here will say it couldn't have been because winner Jeff Bland started on the front row.  Bland passed early leader Jon Stanbrough near the mid point, then held off a furious charge by Brady Short.  Short ran the bottom, Bland was hammering the cushion (that was reallly more of a curb, especially in tunrs 3&4). 

BIGFISH:  I've seen 10-12 non-wing races per year for the lst 25 years, so I've ony seen 250-300 non-wing races.  Tonight was my 7th of 2014.  I've seen drivers carry the left front many times before, but I've NEVER seen a driver run more than a lap in competition without the left front wheel attached to the car.  The hub would drop onto the track briefly when Darland backed off to enter the corner, and there were sparks flying at times.  Logan Hupp was all over Darland for the spot the entire time.  If you've seen things like that often, you are indeed a VERY fortunate race fan.  

 < at 65... Lets see. 25 years ago I was 41 and I've been around non wing stuff regularly since I was a baby. I have no idea how many non wing races I've been to, but I've seen more than a few laps run without a left front wheel.

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

I saw less passing in tonight's A-main than in Friday night's WoO A-main at Charlotte.  Tell me how it's different having a front row winner with a non-wing car?  Two of the heats a Putnamville were complete runaways, with the leader a straightaway in front of second, who was a straightaway in front of third.  (Again, I'm not saying the non-wing racing was bad by any means--I enjoyed the show.  What I AM saying is that in my opinion it wasn't BETTER than the WoO race at Charlotte Friday night.)  I'll also admit that speed is at least a small part of the appeal to me--it always takes me a bit to get used to how slow the non-wing cars SEEM to be going in the corners. ("Slow" being a relative term.  I don't doubt for a second that they feel like or race at anything but as fast as they can possibly go.)

And again, the main point I'm trying to make is that even IF a race is won from the front row, the actual racing can be excellent.

sure,....  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX4lYYJCroI

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

I am guessing that the non-wing heats were held after the winged time trials?    Not much you can do after time trials kills the track.

And yes,  the overall entertainment factor of a race night has a LOT more to do with who won from where.....but passing points is still a superior way to put on a show vs (waste of) time trials.  

Speedbump--what race are you talking about?  (I was comparing the MSCS non-wing show I watched at Putnamville Saturday night to the WoO race at Charlotte Friday night.)  I still don't think passing points are the way to go--way too much left to the luck of the draw.  

I have been to a ton of non wing races and I've NEVER seen that.  

So there is no "luck of the draw" when they draw for time trial order? I would say there is an equal amount of luck.... Unless one considers coming out to time 33rd on a burned up groove as being a good thing.

time trials are an absolute waste of time, money, and most importantly track surface. 

And while we are on the topic, there is no way someone that has to run a "B" should get to start the "A" in front of someone that actually RACED their way in. "B" transfers should tag the back just ahead of provisionals. This s just one more illustration of how important the "luck" of the draw is for timing order. It also shows there a way to much emphasis on timing in. 

Time trials (if utilized) should do nothing more than award points, in combination with heat race points, to determine the feature line-up and settle tie's in points. 

305's are the herpes of sprint cars

My bad John,  the late night made me think it was the same show.    One reason I why I think PP are better is because you don't spend the first 30 minutes or so running all cars around in the same  line.   It does take a different line of thinking on track prep to take full advantage of the benefits of PP.

OK,  straight up passing points probably isn't the best for a show with less than 30 or so entries.    The ASCS / Chili Bowl format of heats and qualifiers is what I like best.    "luck of the draw" applies to all forms of racing though....whether you are first out in a TT show or draw pole (or dead last if that is what you don't want) for a PP show.    I happen to feel there is nothing wrong with a little "luck" though...remember that the racers are there to entertain the paying customers first and foremost.

Considering Logan Hupp was racing at Waynesfield made it all thre more amazing.

Nothing wrong with either format or type of car, TT or PP, wing or no wing. I like and enjoy them all. I know what I'm gonna see in either case before I get there and I'm fine with that or I wouldn't have gone to start with. Whole damned argument is kinda silly if you ask me. Kinda like arguin over blondes, brunettes or redheads. Well hell, I like'em all. That's why the wife changes it up once in awhile. Hell I never know what I'm comin home too but I know it's gonna be good. All of ya quit your bellyachin and be thankful you've got choices. I like a good steak once in awhile but it wouldn't be nearly as good if that was the only choice.

REMEMBER OUR TROOPS!!!

Speaking of DRAWS..........  How do we explain the dash in Woo?

a driver hits the track and gets fast time either by luck of the draw when he times in on the speedway or a good driver mechanic combo and then gets inverted in his heat which is okay, then wins his heat and his reward for that from Woo is ohhhh by the way your the provisional pole sitter in the dash but Larry over there who timed 16th won his heat and he gets the pole of the dash now cause the pill was a lets call it a 6 on the inversion on this particular night  , but hey fast guy we will give 5 or 6 ape whatever the heck it is to keep being punished For your efforts of being fast and ohh by the way the track has went south and passing now at this point wI'll be nill.

look the point is I have seen so many drivers at the pill draw for dash put their heads down after the draw in defeat, that's why there is so many winners this year........ Luck of the draw of the dash........... Cars are so equal then why tt at all cause at the end of the day it's a  draw in that dumbass dash that decides every race anyway. 

How many people have been to woo and seen a fast timer look fast as hell in tt and his heat and then get buried in the dash????????

I figured someone would eventually pick on non-wing racing. Suprised it was you. Sorry, but non-wing racing is a much better "greatest show on dirt" than the winged parades.....and I don't care how "slow" the cars look.

The Outlaws are 70 miles away tomorrow night, at Lawrenceburg, IN. I'll be cutting my grass.

I thought Brad said "Logan Hupp"--kind of hard to hear in the backstretch grandstands.  Lincoln Park could definitely use a speaker upgrade.  

Larsonfan:  I'm not "picking on" non-wing racing.  I quite enjoy it, and thought last night's show was very good.  I'm going to Kokomo tonight.  But I don't believe what I saw last night was any better than the WoO racing I saw at Charlotte Friday.  BOTH were good races.

Johnny can you give us a comparison of tickect prices between Lincoln Park and Charlotte and also did Lincoln Park offer provisinals?

BW (before wings) they wouldn't even needed the left front as it hardly ever touched the ground anyway at least at Limaland.

If passing points is the best format for the biggest races of the year.... its the best system for my money at every track.