Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

your logic is a little one sided.   with only two points seperating a main finish, you could argue that if you placed one  position ahead of your rival each race, it would take three races  [of beating him by one position]  to make up for one quick time.

Like it or not, its the exact point system they all signed on for at the beginning of the year.

http://gph.is/XMLGff

By taking ALL qualifying points out of the equation.

The points would be Schatz on 9330 & Pitman on 9292.

4 points sepatate first and second main finish positions. you also don't consider that you may also set quick time or that you may both only be separated by one point in TT. points are points and it takes 30 fast times to equal one main event in points. you have to be able to score point in every aspect of the event, including TT.

even if you take TT out of the deal and go off of top 5 finishes pitman is leading.

when they don't win pitman has more top 5 finishes than donny, as well as a higher average top 5 finish position.

if you take just the points for top 5 finishes 1st-5th for both pitman and donny, pitman has 40 more points.

pitman top 5 finishing points total-6208.

donny top 5 finishing points total-6168.

finishing points from only 2nd-5th

pitman-5008

donny-3018

so when they don't win, pittman clobbers donny in 2nd-5th points.

you gain more points by finishing 3 positions further ahead of someone than by setting fast time.

donny had a slow start and fell way back. he didn't gain all those points back by setting fast time...he did it by winning.

to indy and beyond!!

that is only 38 points.

and pitman is leading by 52.

that is a 90 point difference or a little less than 1/2 of a main event.

you people are bitching about less than 1/2 of a main event difference in bonus points over the season!

we have a very close woo point battle and you people are bitching. pathetic!

to indy and beyond!!

let me clarify that.

a difference of 90 bonus point over 68 event so far is about 1.3 bonus points per event. earned by out qualifying someone over the course of thre season so far.

and you people are bitching.

to indy and beyond!!

that is about 1/2 of an average main event finishing position.

and you people are bitching.

jeez.

to indy and beyond!!

I am new to hoseheads but sorry I would like yo suggest something. I think the woo point is messed up for the longest time. most yearssomeone usually already had it locked up by now but its close this year unfortunately. im not a big nascar fan at all but ithink the woo should go towards chase format. also think thwy should split it up into regions kind. like have woo wesr coast points woo midwest point an woo east points and a overall national points. take top two out each region at the end of the racing schedule an do a ten race shootout. award the drivers that win throughout the year in each region race. award hsrd charger points. and fast times. theres alot more to I have thought of but it would great for the series.think how big thw racses would be in the chace. tracks like eldora and Williams grove would be foaming at the mouth to get involved. I even think it would get televise to. I got all broke dow. but jus think how big it could be. it would make drivers on the west coast for instance race with the outlaws during their region jus sobthey can get into the shootout at the end of the year.. you would bigger car counts at the track and we all know woo struggles alot with car counts at alot of track. its just thought.

better go hide lol

hey its fine lol im not scared. just think its something to think about. its not perfect but heck I know its a idea that could sprint car racing to another level. 

Even if you added 5 points to the winners share, Schatz would only be ahead 13 pts. Let's not discount Pittman's great year.

I have to agree with this. I go to the races to see RACING. I understand the tradition of TT but I'd rather see twice as many heat races.

OR go with qualifying groups of 10 cars on 1/2 mile tracks 6-7 on smaller tracks. Let them run 3-4 laps @ speed. Set the field, fun twice as many heats and add passing points to set the field for the mains.

Personally, I'd change up the format completely and do the following:

Time Trials - Quick Time gets (1) bonus point, everyone else gets (0)

Heat races - Invert of 8 - top 4 to feature, 10 points to win, 9 for 2nd, 8 for 3rd etc, but 1 point for EVERY car you PASS.

B-main - give the top 4 drivers 5 points and a transfer position (transfers line up BEHIND everyone that transferred through heats)

A-Main - 150 points for the win, 140 points for 2nd, 138 points for 3rd, drops 2 points per position.  Bonus points of 1 POINT for every car you PASS.  So technically, the guy finishing 2nd could outpoint the winner, but he'd have to PASS a ton of cars to do so.

Draw for invert of the feature by time trials (no dash) - invert of 0, 6 or 12, nothing in between - a kid pulls the pill after the heats are over.  Makes that "sweet spot" in time trials 6th, but means your still starting in 4th row of a heat. 

Bonus of 5 points for sweeping Time Trials, Heat and Feature. and a $1000 bonus in your paycheck at the pay window.

New tire rule of you must run the same RR tire in TT, Heat and Feature.  Any changes at any time and you start LAST in the Feature if you make it there (if you have to change tires from TT to heat race, you may make the main, but you're gonna start 24th (for any reason - blow out, cut, you just want a new tire). 

Dash has been eliminated as it is a waste of time and makes the racing harder for new fans to understand what is going on.

Bonus $$$ for passing cars.  Car that passes the most cars gets $100 per car passed added to their paycheck at the end of the night (so in theory, someone could earn an extra $2300 if they start last and win the feature).

ZERO Provisionals, you either make the show or you don't, no more free spots. -WoO can continue to give tow $$ to their followers, but no car should ever be given a "freebie" into the A-main.

A-mains pay a minimum of $10,000 to win and $800 to start (no more of this it pays $600 at one track, $700 at another and $800 at another.

Does anyone have the total difference in finishing position between the two throughout the season? That to me would be the difference maker between the two and how a championship is decided. Yeah Donny has won 21 races but if Pittman has been right behind him then he really has not gained (not saying that this has happened but just giving an example). Both are about equal in almost every category except in wins (Schatz with the advantage) and quick times (Pittman)

I think that method would be the easiest way going forward for all motorsports kind of like baseball, football, hockey, basketball, etc.For example:

Race               Driver A                Driver B           Difference

1                        1st                         3rd                    +2

2                         1st                       3rd                    +2

3                        1st                        3rd                     +2

4                          1st                     5th                  +4

5                         22nd                   5th                    -17

This Sceniaro would have Driver B leading by 7 after the 5th race. Yes Driver A has won 4 races compared to Driver B's 0, but driver B has been the more consistent driver throughout this time. I would much rather the champion be someone who finishes upfront the most than who wins more races but also finishes in the back more as well. JMO.

Eliminate provisionals, that would shake things up!

Provisionals mean very, very little.  They are there in case one of the travelling 'stars' misses the A through the heats.  How would you feel if Joe Nobody took out Kinser in the B or his heat and he was done for the night when half the people there came to see him race, especially the A-Main race which is sometimes the only 'race' of the night.  Provisionals are a necessary evil and are there more for the fnas than the drivers......

I disagee that they are more for the Fans than the drivers (and teams).

Provisionals were added by uncle Ted for one reason and one reason only (to make sure he didn't lose any teams) under the guise of it being good for the fans (it was really for the teams with sponsors that wanted to see their cars on TV (back in the TNN days)).  And they completely lost ALL their lustre when he attempted to add Andy Hillenberg as a "non-starting provisional" to the A-main of the Nationals one year just so his consecutive A-main streak would stay intact.

i don't have that info but i have been looking at something along those lines. i have been looking at where points were gained and lost between the two and have something that might interest you.

points difference in four caragories between donny and pitman

difference in qualifying points

difference in first place points

difference in top 5 finishing points minus wins (2nd-5th)

difference in points from finishing positions 6th to last.

pitman has out pointed donny in qualifying by about 90 points

but donny has out pointed pitman in wins by 1950 points

in finishing positions 2nd-5th pitman has out pointed donny by 1990

in all finishes 6th to last i believe donny has out pointed pitman by around 80 points.

so where have the two gained and lost the most points on each other?

it shows donny has made the most points on pitman by winning.

it shows pitman has off set that and actually gained 40 points by out pointing donny in 2nd-5th place finishes.

donny has out pointed pitman in 6th-last finishes by 80 but pitman has gained those back plus 10 by out qualifying donny.

there is your 50 odd point advantage to pitman

so pitman has gained the most points over donny by 2nd-5th place finishes not in qualifying

to indy and beyond!!

just doesn't make sense to me when the  guy that finishes 2nd can get one more pt the the guy that won the main because he qualified 1st

I had it figured it out a couple weeks bak and could not find my #s but there was like a seventy + pt differerence between the 2 just in qualifing pts if it only paid 1 pt for fast tim and no pionts for the rest of top five you would se a huge difference i the pts.

the second place main event finisher can't out point the main event winner if the main event winner qualifies in the top five. stop adding hypothetical points to the second place finisher and not the winner.

that is just disingenuous.

qualifying points are given so that drivers don't go out and attrempt to sand bag to get a better heat race starting spot. qualifying points make the top drivers run hard in TT to get those points.

donny fell behind because he had a bad start to the year and because pitman has out pointed him by almost 2000 points in top five finishes when they don't win. heck, pitman has out pointed donny in total top five points. so the guy who finishes up front the most is leading the points.

to indy and beyond!!