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Topic: Strange goings on with Outlaws
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May 21, 2013 at
09:10:39 AM
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Just read the WoO results from Orange County and am curious how Tony Stewart manages to come in 4th in his heat & then gets to start the dash & not only gets to start the dash but gets to start 3rd in the dash? Especially interesting is the fact the 3rd place finisher in Stewart's heat, Jessica Zemken, is NOT allowed in the dash when the man finishing behind her gets in! I guess what some people here say at times is true, The World Of Outlaws just make up their "rules" as they go along. Wonder if they let Stewart near the front of the dash because his ex girlfriend beat him in their heat & they didn't want Tony throwing one of his tantrums he seems to do lately when things don't go his way?
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May 21, 2013 at
09:15:33 AM
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I believe you make the dash if your one of the top two qualifiers who didn't make the dash through your heat. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong??
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May 21, 2013 at
09:22:02 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: bmd5229 on May 21 2013 at 09:15:33 AM
I believe you make the dash if your one of the top two qualifiers who didn't make the dash through your heat. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong??
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That could well be & if true, I stand corrected & puzzled that the top 2 qualifiers have no incentive to even try in their heats. As a fan I prefer that they actually have to race other drivers to get in the dash.
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May 21, 2013 at
09:26:13 AM
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I just looked up the results. The feature winner, Kraig Kinser, also finished 4th in his heat and made the dash while 3rd in that heat (Justin Henderson) did not make the dash. They ran 3 heats last night, looks like top 2 made the dash + the 4 quickest qualifiers (probably the standard 3-heat format). No conspiracies or "making up rules."
Signature here.
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May 21, 2013 at
09:37:58 AM
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Remember when the dash use to be 6 cars and it gave anybody starting in any position a chance to
win? Dash is now just an extension of the A Feature. 12 cars in the dash at Knoxville was ridiculous.
-Austin Rankin
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May 21, 2013 at
10:00:16 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Dave 21X on May 21 2013 at 09:10:39 AM
Just read the WoO results from Orange County and am curious how Tony Stewart manages to come in 4th in his heat & then gets to start the dash & not only gets to start the dash but gets to start 3rd in the dash? Especially interesting is the fact the 3rd place finisher in Stewart's heat, Jessica Zemken, is NOT allowed in the dash when the man finishing behind her gets in! I guess what some people here say at times is true, The World Of Outlaws just make up their "rules" as they go along. Wonder if they let Stewart near the front of the dash because his ex girlfriend beat him in their heat & they didn't want Tony throwing one of his tantrums he seems to do lately when things don't go his way?
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With all due respect Dave 21X, it would be more appropriate for you to ask for a rules clarification then to state, "the outlaws make up the rules as they go along". If you have a question about how the cars make the dash, then ask. I am sure Johnny Gibson would be more than willing to respond here to help you out. Granted, I have wondered on occasion over my decades of following the WoO, and also have shaken my head as to why a rule was put in place or a decision made, but I am pretty sure any organization around as long as the outlaws will do everything possible to ensure that the rules and procedures in place are followed. Whether you agree with a rule, that is a different story. Don't you feel that if a driver was given preferential treatment, the other drivers would go ballistic or even stop supporting the tour? Tony earned that spot....plain and simple.
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May 21, 2013 at
10:40:39 AM
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A few years ago at Attica for Ohio Sprint Speedweek Tony and Kasey both got their butts handed to them in the B main but were allowed to tag on the tail of the feature. Guess if you draw a crowd they make sure you make the show.
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May 21, 2013 at
10:46:15 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Dave 21X on May 21 2013 at 09:22:02 AM
That could well be & if true, I stand corrected & puzzled that the top 2 qualifiers have no incentive to even try in their heats. As a fan I prefer that they actually have to race other drivers to get in the dash.
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If your one of the top 2 qualifiers you start 4th and you do have to transfer through your heat so you do have to race to gaurantee your spot, just like the guys starting 1st and 2nd have to hold off 3rd/4th if they want to be in the dash. You can't just qualify 2nd, finish last in the heat, and make the dash.
...and the same thing happened to Kasey Kahne at Lincoln a few years ago. Finished dead last in the B, was offered 25th starting spot in the A, but he denied it by basically saying niether him or the car was competitive enough to deserve the A-main.
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May 21, 2013 at
10:47:30 AM
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The following is taken DIRECTLY from the Outlaws website. It's, amazingly enough, under the "Fan Guide" tab.
How does a World of Outlaws race program take shape?
- Hot Laps
- Time Trials
- Heat Races
- Dash
- B-Main (C-Main or D-Main depending on car count)
- A-Feature
Race Night Glossary
A- (or Feature) – The final race of the night which decides who is the overall winner of the event. Depending on the size of the track the A-Main usually ranges from 25-40 laps, which is predetermined and shared with the drivers and teams at the drivers meeting.
B-Main (Last Change Showdown) – This is the final chance a driver has to make it into the A-Main. Depending on the number of heat races run, the Top-4 finishers in the B-Main of a four heat race program and the Top-6 finishers in the B-Main in a three heat race program will transfer into the main event. The B-Main is usually 8-12 laps in length, depending on the size of the track and the number of cars involved.
Dash – The first and second place finishers from each of the four heat races, in a standard race program, qualify for the dash, along with the fastest two drivers from time trials that transferred from the heat race into the A-Feature, but did not finish first or second in the heat. These 10 drivers will be lined up by their time trials time for the dash and then a fan will draw either a 4, 6 or 8 pill for an inversion of the dash stating line-up. The Top-10 starting positions in the A-Feature are then determined by the finishing order of the dash in a three or four heat race program and the Top-12 in a five heat race program.
Drivers Meeting- Prior to each night of racing, all World of Outlaws drivers and crew members attend a mandatory meeting, which is conducted by the World of Outlaws Competition Director and Series Officials. The meetings outlines the night’s racing events and any procedural changes that may be in place.
Hot Laps – A session held prior to time trials. This session is run in groups. Each car is assigned to a group prior to this hot lap session, and the groups are determined by the draw that set the order for time trials. During this practice session each car is allotted 3 or more laps (the number depends on the size of the track) at speed in order to ensure that their car is ready for qualifying.
Heat Race (or Heats) – An 8-12 lap race (the distance is determined by the size of the track) that determines which cars will move on to the A-Feature or B Main. The top five cars in the heats transfer to the A-Main, when there are four heat races. If there are three heat races, then the top six finishers in the heat race transfer to the A-Feature.
Inversion- The Top-16 cars in time trials are inverted in the heat races, meaning that the fastest qualifier in time trials starts in the fourth-spot in the first heat. The second fastest qualifier starts in the fourth-spot of the second heat. The third fastest qualifier starts in the fourth spot in the third heat, and the fourth quick qualifier starts in the fourth spot in the fourth heat (when four heats are run). The fifth fastest qualifier starts third in the first heat. The sixth fastest qualifier starts third in the second heat, and so on, working up to the 13th fastest qualifier starting on the pole of the first heat. The 14th fastest qualifier is on the pole of the second heat. The 15th fastest qualifier is on the pole for the third heat. The 16th fastest qualifier is on the pole of the fourth heat (See layout below). The remainder of the cars are lined up heads up by their time, starting in the third row of each heat race. The 17th fastest car in qualifying lines up fifth in the first heat, with the 18th fastest qualifier, fifth in the second heat, and so on until the rest of the field is filled.
Note: In a three-heat program, the Top-12 in time trials are inverted for the heat races.
Time Trials- Each competitor is given two timed laps to determine where they will start in a heat race. If a competitor misses their spot in the qualifying order by more than two places, by rule, they are allowed one lap at the end of time trials and the best they can be is 17th or 1 spot behind the inversion cars.
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May 21, 2013 at
12:38:04 PM
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840
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Reply to:
Posted By: kentballin on May 21 2013 at 10:47:30 AM
The following is taken DIRECTLY from the Outlaws website. It's, amazingly enough, under the "Fan Guide" tab.
How does a World of Outlaws race program take shape?
- Hot Laps
- Time Trials
- Heat Races
- Dash
- B-Main (C-Main or D-Main depending on car count)
- A-Feature
Race Night Glossary
A- (or Feature) – The final race of the night which decides who is the overall winner of the event. Depending on the size of the track the A-Main usually ranges from 25-40 laps, which is predetermined and shared with the drivers and teams at the drivers meeting.
B-Main (Last Change Showdown) – This is the final chance a driver has to make it into the A-Main. Depending on the number of heat races run, the Top-4 finishers in the B-Main of a four heat race program and the Top-6 finishers in the B-Main in a three heat race program will transfer into the main event. The B-Main is usually 8-12 laps in length, depending on the size of the track and the number of cars involved.
Dash – The first and second place finishers from each of the four heat races, in a standard race program, qualify for the dash, along with the fastest two drivers from time trials that transferred from the heat race into the A-Feature, but did not finish first or second in the heat. These 10 drivers will be lined up by their time trials time for the dash and then a fan will draw either a 4, 6 or 8 pill for an inversion of the dash stating line-up. The Top-10 starting positions in the A-Feature are then determined by the finishing order of the dash in a three or four heat race program and the Top-12 in a five heat race program.
Drivers Meeting- Prior to each night of racing, all World of Outlaws drivers and crew members attend a mandatory meeting, which is conducted by the World of Outlaws Competition Director and Series Officials. The meetings outlines the night’s racing events and any procedural changes that may be in place.
Hot Laps – A session held prior to time trials. This session is run in groups. Each car is assigned to a group prior to this hot lap session, and the groups are determined by the draw that set the order for time trials. During this practice session each car is allotted 3 or more laps (the number depends on the size of the track) at speed in order to ensure that their car is ready for qualifying.
Heat Race (or Heats) – An 8-12 lap race (the distance is determined by the size of the track) that determines which cars will move on to the A-Feature or B Main. The top five cars in the heats transfer to the A-Main, when there are four heat races. If there are three heat races, then the top six finishers in the heat race transfer to the A-Feature.
Inversion- The Top-16 cars in time trials are inverted in the heat races, meaning that the fastest qualifier in time trials starts in the fourth-spot in the first heat. The second fastest qualifier starts in the fourth-spot of the second heat. The third fastest qualifier starts in the fourth spot in the third heat, and the fourth quick qualifier starts in the fourth spot in the fourth heat (when four heats are run). The fifth fastest qualifier starts third in the first heat. The sixth fastest qualifier starts third in the second heat, and so on, working up to the 13th fastest qualifier starting on the pole of the first heat. The 14th fastest qualifier is on the pole of the second heat. The 15th fastest qualifier is on the pole for the third heat. The 16th fastest qualifier is on the pole of the fourth heat (See layout below). The remainder of the cars are lined up heads up by their time, starting in the third row of each heat race. The 17th fastest car in qualifying lines up fifth in the first heat, with the 18th fastest qualifier, fifth in the second heat, and so on until the rest of the field is filled.
Note: In a three-heat program, the Top-12 in time trials are inverted for the heat races.
Time Trials- Each competitor is given two timed laps to determine where they will start in a heat race. If a competitor misses their spot in the qualifying order by more than two places, by rule, they are allowed one lap at the end of time trials and the best they can be is 17th or 1 spot behind the inversion cars.
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brilliant!
Follow me on the social medias! ; twitter -
larryitis Facebook - Michael Collins
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May 21, 2013 at
01:11:01 PM
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The outlaws have been taking the first two finishers and the top two qualifying times that also transfer through their heat for the past few seasons. A 6 was pulled for the dash, so Stewart started 6th in the dash then passed 3 cars. That's why he started 3rd in the A.
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May 21, 2013 at
01:21:53 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: ohiosprintfan on May 21 2013 at 10:40:39 AM
A few years ago at Attica for Ohio Sprint Speedweek Tony and Kasey both got their butts handed to them in the B main but were allowed to tag on the tail of the feature. Guess if you draw a crowd they make sure you make the show.
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it is a thing called the promoters option. and if people came to see advertized names like tony and kasey, then it was a good thing to let them tag the field. i bet people were thrilled to see them race from the back. there is no starting money for them, but i would think that if they were advertized as being there to promote the show, they were compensated.
to indy and beyond!!
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May 21, 2013 at
02:53:59 PM
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True that Buzz...
Opinions may vary...
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May 23, 2013 at
08:33:09 AM
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374
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Reply to:
Posted By: kentballin on May 21 2013 at 10:47:30 AM
The following is taken DIRECTLY from the Outlaws website. It's, amazingly enough, under the "Fan Guide" tab.
How does a World of Outlaws race program take shape?
- Hot Laps
- Time Trials
- Heat Races
- Dash
- B-Main (C-Main or D-Main depending on car count)
- A-Feature
Race Night Glossary
A- (or Feature) – The final race of the night which decides who is the overall winner of the event. Depending on the size of the track the A-Main usually ranges from 25-40 laps, which is predetermined and shared with the drivers and teams at the drivers meeting.
B-Main (Last Change Showdown) – This is the final chance a driver has to make it into the A-Main. Depending on the number of heat races run, the Top-4 finishers in the B-Main of a four heat race program and the Top-6 finishers in the B-Main in a three heat race program will transfer into the main event. The B-Main is usually 8-12 laps in length, depending on the size of the track and the number of cars involved.
Dash – The first and second place finishers from each of the four heat races, in a standard race program, qualify for the dash, along with the fastest two drivers from time trials that transferred from the heat race into the A-Feature, but did not finish first or second in the heat. These 10 drivers will be lined up by their time trials time for the dash and then a fan will draw either a 4, 6 or 8 pill for an inversion of the dash stating line-up. The Top-10 starting positions in the A-Feature are then determined by the finishing order of the dash in a three or four heat race program and the Top-12 in a five heat race program.
Drivers Meeting- Prior to each night of racing, all World of Outlaws drivers and crew members attend a mandatory meeting, which is conducted by the World of Outlaws Competition Director and Series Officials. The meetings outlines the night’s racing events and any procedural changes that may be in place.
Hot Laps – A session held prior to time trials. This session is run in groups. Each car is assigned to a group prior to this hot lap session, and the groups are determined by the draw that set the order for time trials. During this practice session each car is allotted 3 or more laps (the number depends on the size of the track) at speed in order to ensure that their car is ready for qualifying.
Heat Race (or Heats) – An 8-12 lap race (the distance is determined by the size of the track) that determines which cars will move on to the A-Feature or B Main. The top five cars in the heats transfer to the A-Main, when there are four heat races. If there are three heat races, then the top six finishers in the heat race transfer to the A-Feature.
Inversion- The Top-16 cars in time trials are inverted in the heat races, meaning that the fastest qualifier in time trials starts in the fourth-spot in the first heat. The second fastest qualifier starts in the fourth-spot of the second heat. The third fastest qualifier starts in the fourth spot in the third heat, and the fourth quick qualifier starts in the fourth spot in the fourth heat (when four heats are run). The fifth fastest qualifier starts third in the first heat. The sixth fastest qualifier starts third in the second heat, and so on, working up to the 13th fastest qualifier starting on the pole of the first heat. The 14th fastest qualifier is on the pole of the second heat. The 15th fastest qualifier is on the pole for the third heat. The 16th fastest qualifier is on the pole of the fourth heat (See layout below). The remainder of the cars are lined up heads up by their time, starting in the third row of each heat race. The 17th fastest car in qualifying lines up fifth in the first heat, with the 18th fastest qualifier, fifth in the second heat, and so on until the rest of the field is filled.
Note: In a three-heat program, the Top-12 in time trials are inverted for the heat races.
Time Trials- Each competitor is given two timed laps to determine where they will start in a heat race. If a competitor misses their spot in the qualifying order by more than two places, by rule, they are allowed one lap at the end of time trials and the best they can be is 17th or 1 spot behind the inversion cars.
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BAMM!
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May 23, 2013 at
04:45:47 PM
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158
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Reply to:
Posted By: lpjazz on May 21 2013 at 10:00:16 AM
With all due respect Dave 21X, it would be more appropriate for you to ask for a rules clarification then to state, "the outlaws make up the rules as they go along". If you have a question about how the cars make the dash, then ask. I am sure Johnny Gibson would be more than willing to respond here to help you out. Granted, I have wondered on occasion over my decades of following the WoO, and also have shaken my head as to why a rule was put in place or a decision made, but I am pretty sure any organization around as long as the outlaws will do everything possible to ensure that the rules and procedures in place are followed. Whether you agree with a rule, that is a different story. Don't you feel that if a driver was given preferential treatment, the other drivers would go ballistic or even stop supporting the tour? Tony earned that spot....plain and simple.
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As I stated in my 2nd post, I stand corrected & all apologies to WoO scoring, if offended & to lpjazz I say; I was definitely wrong to make the statement "make up rules as they go along" without a full understanding of Outlaw scoring. Hope this takes care of my NEED to digest some crow.
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