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Topic: Tim Shaffer 2nd In Thurs Nationals Qualifier & Dont Make The Nationals ?
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Page 2 of 3 of 45 replies
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August 15, 2012 at
08:41:26 AM
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It'd be one thing if the track sucked and you couldn't pass. If the format led to guys winning or making it that didn't deserve it, I'd be all for changing it. But it's part of what makes this race great.
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August 15, 2012 at
09:48:09 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 15 2012 at 01:28:14 AM
Didn't their used to be passing points? I thought it was 2 points for each position gained?
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I think the Scrambles had passing points, but never any passing points on qualifying nights. I remember when Time Trials set the Saturday night lineup. It was only three days then. Thursday night made up the inside rows and Friday night made up the outside rows. That was horrible. The guys that qualified towards the front of the A wouldn't even run the rest of their qualifying night. Then they made it mandatory that they ran their heat, therefore they would drop to bottom, cruise the bottom for a couple of laps, then pull in. That was basically what led to the format they have now. It makes Wednesday and Thursday nights two of the best nights of racing of the year. My vote would be to leave it as it is.
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August 15, 2012 at
10:42:42 AM
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The amazing thing to me was Dale Blaney. He was absolutely last in points after both nights of preliminary qualifying. Running the new Friday night format he started 18th in the A-main on Saturday. Wow.
My wife told me if I went to one more Sprint Car race
she would leave me.................I'm sure gonna miss
that ol' gal.
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August 15, 2012 at
11:13:34 AM
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Had Tim been anywhere near as fast as he was on his qualifying night in the B on Saturday he would have transfered from his 7th starting position. It's not like he was starting deep in the field.
The way to make Friday more "fair" in my opinion is to have the highest point guy qualify first and so on. That gives some sort of advantage for running decent on their qualifying night and discourages breaking in time trials and packing it up, waiting for a clean slate on Friday.
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August 15, 2012 at
11:29:33 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Dirthawk on August 15 2012 at 11:13:34 AM
Had Tim been anywhere near as fast as he was on his qualifying night in the B on Saturday he would have transfered from his 7th starting position. It's not like he was starting deep in the field.
The way to make Friday more "fair" in my opinion is to have the highest point guy qualify first and so on. That gives some sort of advantage for running decent on their qualifying night and discourages breaking in time trials and packing it up, waiting for a clean slate on Friday.
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Shaffer had the option to run again Friday and chose to keep his points and line up in the sat B. in hindsight he probably would have done things differently. I think he and Sammy gambled on some cautions in the B that never occurred.
More weight, more regulation, more similarity in the
cars.... that will ensure plenty of thrills for years
to come. Only the most average talent behind the
wheel will be needed with such awesome equipment on
the track!
minthess 8.28.14
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August 15, 2012 at
11:37:26 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Dirthawk on August 15 2012 at 11:13:34 AM
Had Tim been anywhere near as fast as he was on his qualifying night in the B on Saturday he would have transfered from his 7th starting position. It's not like he was starting deep in the field.
The way to make Friday more "fair" in my opinion is to have the highest point guy qualify first and so on. That gives some sort of advantage for running decent on their qualifying night and discourages breaking in time trials and packing it up, waiting for a clean slate on Friday.
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I like the fact that Friday starts over with a clean slate now. It gives a driver who may have had mechanical issues, bad luck or just a bad night on qualifying night another chance to make the A, while before you might as well just pack it up and head home if you had a bad qualifying night.
A
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August 15, 2012 at
11:42:32 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: artie langes habit on August 15 2012 at 11:29:33 AM
Shaffer had the option to run again Friday and chose to keep his points and line up in the sat B. in hindsight he probably would have done things differently. I think he and Sammy gambled on some cautions in the B that never occurred.
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They started 6th and 7th. They had 22 laps to pass 2 and 3 cars. If they were fast enough they didn't need any cautions. Unfortunately for them, neither were. I don't blame either one for sticking with what they had. It was their safest chance. Who would have guessed neither could pass a couple cars in 22 laps at Knoxville? The track was tough but Sides did start 10th and passed them both so it could be done. They just missed it.
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August 15, 2012 at
11:42:49 AM
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Friday is the BEST, I think you will see more guys gamble and run it next year. If you're a big dog, why not? Gives you one more chance to prove it or lose it. Two big Thumbs Up from this guy.....
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August 15, 2012 at
12:09:37 PM
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No doubt, I loved Friday. It was one of, if not the best, feature I've ever seen at Knoxville. I absolutely loved and approve of the new format. My suggestion was just an offer to those saying that the format was unfair.
Going into Saturday looking at that B Main lineup after watching their respective qualifying nights, I don't think there were too many people that didn't think Tim and Sammy would transfer. Just goes to show how tough the Nationals are. How about that run by Brian Paulus in only his 10th race of the year...
I also think that more big dogs will give it a shot next year. You gotta think, if you're a big gun even if you don't finish top 4, you're not going to finish far off of that (barring mechanical issues) and you aren't going to lose much starting position in the B. And I guarantee there were about 25+ drivers pulling into Friday thinking they were going to go top 4. Great addition.
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August 15, 2012 at
12:43:51 PM
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Use the Standard WoO format and Shaffer more than likely wouldn't have even been IN the prelim feature (the top 20 in time trials would have started in the first and second row of the heats instead of rows 3 and 4).
That's the beaty of the Nationals, prelim nights are all about points and doing your best EVERY time you are on the track (not just during the feature). It also allows for some of those smaller teams that time crappy to make the prelim feature and make some $$. But the odds are stacked against those small teams of accumlating enough points to qualify for Saturday Nights A Main.
In the old days the guy timing 50th fast (that lost 98 points during time trials alone), could run 4th in the heat (losing 9 more points) and then start 20th in the feature and get good $$ for finishing 20-24th place (and losing another 38-46 points) - thing is, he usually ended the night with about 355 points which put you about midpack in the C main at BEST under the old format and more than likely racing on Friday (under the old format). This is why those mid-pack teams show up at the Nationals. Have a track that's fairly narrow and they have a CHANCE to make some $$ during Nationals week even though they know they more than likely won't make the big show.
Tim had a bad qualifying lap and he paid for it in the points, but benefitted from it by getting a good staring position in his heat race (FRONT ROW) on a narrow track. Had he timed better (like 16-20th), he would have been in the B on his prelim night and more than likely wouldn't have made the prelim feature (becuase the track was narrow and he would have had to start somewhere around 16th in a 12 lap race).
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August 15, 2012 at
02:28:45 PM
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This message was edited on
August 15, 2012 at
02:29:20 PM by interracin
Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on August 15 2012 at 12:43:51 PM
Use the Standard WoO format and Shaffer more than likely wouldn't have even been IN the prelim feature (the top 20 in time trials would have started in the first and second row of the heats instead of rows 3 and 4).
That's the beaty of the Nationals, prelim nights are all about points and doing your best EVERY time you are on the track (not just during the feature). It also allows for some of those smaller teams that time crappy to make the prelim feature and make some $$. But the odds are stacked against those small teams of accumlating enough points to qualify for Saturday Nights A Main.
In the old days the guy timing 50th fast (that lost 98 points during time trials alone), could run 4th in the heat (losing 9 more points) and then start 20th in the feature and get good $$ for finishing 20-24th place (and losing another 38-46 points) - thing is, he usually ended the night with about 355 points which put you about midpack in the C main at BEST under the old format and more than likely racing on Friday (under the old format). This is why those mid-pack teams show up at the Nationals. Have a track that's fairly narrow and they have a CHANCE to make some $$ during Nationals week even though they know they more than likely won't make the big show.
Tim had a bad qualifying lap and he paid for it in the points, but benefitted from it by getting a good staring position in his heat race (FRONT ROW) on a narrow track. Had he timed better (like 16-20th), he would have been in the B on his prelim night and more than likely wouldn't have made the prelim feature (becuase the track was narrow and he would have had to start somewhere around 16th in a 12 lap race).
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Very well stated.
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August 15, 2012 at
04:52:45 PM
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This message was edited on
August 15, 2012 at
05:04:28 PM by TheProfessor5
I understand that some of the guys that are on the front row of the B-Main do not want to race on Friday for fear of tearing up a car. However, could Friday be improved by doing this....
Allow only 14 cars into Friday's A-Main, as the first 5 rows of the A would be made up of the guys who were to start in the first 5 rows of B on Saturday. Then, allow them to race it out, and give them finishing points based on finishing position in the A. Have 5 heats of 10 cars (only top 50 qualifiers make the heat) where the top 2 transfer to the A inverting 3 and getting your time back if you transfer. This gives the quick qualifier of the night who transfers, the 11th starting spot in the A-Main. Then have two 16 lap B-Mains that transfer 2 a piece (this splits up the fast guys and gives more of a chance). Then, only the guys that are in the first 5 rows have a chance to make the A-Main on Friday. They will race for points that will be added to their Wed/Thurs total. The 4 highest after Friday with their Wed/Thurs points will be locked into the A-Main, and the points added together will re-align the first 3 rows of the B-Main for Sat. For the rest of the field, you will award points like any other night. The high point guy would then start 7th in Saturdays B-Main. This does not give a guy like Blaney a free ride into the A by racing the watered down competition, but would definitely give him a much better chance. In this format, 4 guys that already qualified near the top would be able to make the A-Main without racing in the B-Main Saturday, and then give the other 6 guys who were also near the top, a much better chance of making the A as they truly deserve it. It would also help the guys like Blaney by letting him start 7th or so in the B-Main and race their way in. This to me would be more fair.
The guys that would not want to race in Friday's B-Main would just keep their points from Wed/Thursday. Therefore, if at least 4 of them race on Friday, they would automatically make the A Main. This would help encourage guys to do it. Those that didn't race....maybe 1 or 2 guys, would have to start 5th, and 6th in the B-Main on Saturday. If they are all within just a few points, they would all want to race to try and secure one of those $9,500 starting spots.
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August 15, 2012 at
08:23:50 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: MoOpenwheel on August 15 2012 at 11:42:32 AM
They started 6th and 7th. They had 22 laps to pass 2 and 3 cars. If they were fast enough they didn't need any cautions. Unfortunately for them, neither were. I don't blame either one for sticking with what they had. It was their safest chance. Who would have guessed neither could pass a couple cars in 22 laps at Knoxville? The track was tough but Sides did start 10th and passed them both so it could be done. They just missed it.
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I was suprised not to see Shaffer move up and challenge for that 4th spot and I was absolutely shocked that Sammy did not finish 1st or 2nd. It was strange that Sides moved up 6 spots and Sammy couldn't make up 2. I think they just flat missed it setting up the car. ? He seemed extremely fast in his heat and in the feature Thursday night before he broke. He also seemed very fast Friday night in the World Challenge before the 15 car got to him. I thought he would cruise to a transfer Sat. night and by the time Sat. night was over, be challenging for a podium spot or at least top 5 or 6.
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August 15, 2012 at
08:35:58 PM
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This message was edited on
August 15, 2012 at
08:37:09 PM by Jamie Klootwyk
It's so annoying every year to hear the minority complain over and over about the Nationals format. It's the format that makes this event the greatest of the year. It makes the racing so hard every time they hit the track. Change it and the event will suffer, the crowd will go away, and the drivers will go away. You will end up with a typical WoO show at Knoxville with a handful of travelers. If that's what you want, go to Knoxville the last weekend in May or the first weekend in June and don't go in August, but don't complain when the racing and drama are a fraction of what the Nationals provide. Otherwise, enough already from the whiners who just aren't smart enough to get it.
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August 16, 2012 at
02:20:00 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Jamie Klootwyk on August 15 2012 at 08:35:58 PM
It's so annoying every year to hear the minority complain over and over about the Nationals format. It's the format that makes this event the greatest of the year. It makes the racing so hard every time they hit the track. Change it and the event will suffer, the crowd will go away, and the drivers will go away. You will end up with a typical WoO show at Knoxville with a handful of travelers. If that's what you want, go to Knoxville the last weekend in May or the first weekend in June and don't go in August, but don't complain when the racing and drama are a fraction of what the Nationals provide. Otherwise, enough already from the whiners who just aren't smart enough to get it.
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Huh? They changed it this year and it was a ressounding success.
A
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August 16, 2012 at
02:31:07 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on August 15 2012 at 12:43:51 PM
Use the Standard WoO format and Shaffer more than likely wouldn't have even been IN the prelim feature (the top 20 in time trials would have started in the first and second row of the heats instead of rows 3 and 4).
That's the beaty of the Nationals, prelim nights are all about points and doing your best EVERY time you are on the track (not just during the feature). It also allows for some of those smaller teams that time crappy to make the prelim feature and make some $$. But the odds are stacked against those small teams of accumlating enough points to qualify for Saturday Nights A Main.
In the old days the guy timing 50th fast (that lost 98 points during time trials alone), could run 4th in the heat (losing 9 more points) and then start 20th in the feature and get good $$ for finishing 20-24th place (and losing another 38-46 points) - thing is, he usually ended the night with about 355 points which put you about midpack in the C main at BEST under the old format and more than likely racing on Friday (under the old format). This is why those mid-pack teams show up at the Nationals. Have a track that's fairly narrow and they have a CHANCE to make some $$ during Nationals week even though they know they more than likely won't make the big show.
Tim had a bad qualifying lap and he paid for it in the points, but benefitted from it by getting a good staring position in his heat race (FRONT ROW) on a narrow track. Had he timed better (like 16-20th), he would have been in the B on his prelim night and more than likely wouldn't have made the prelim feature (becuase the track was narrow and he would have had to start somewhere around 16th in a 12 lap race).
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He finished secomd in his heat and that would have put him in the dash at an outlaw show. It all depends how many cars there are. If it's a typical WOO show with about 25 cars, then 16th quick, which equates to the same as 32 of 50, would start you on the pole of a heat.
A
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August 16, 2012 at
08:01:57 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 16 2012 at 02:31:07 AM
He finished secomd in his heat and that would have put him in the dash at an outlaw show. It all depends how many cars there are. If it's a typical WOO show with about 25 cars, then 16th quick, which equates to the same as 32 of 50, would start you on the pole of a heat.
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But he wasn't 16th quick, he was 35th (out of 48) and 1/2 of the "heavy hitters" raced on the other qualifying night.
I'll stand by my comment, if this was typical outlaw show rules, he wouldn't have made the invert and wouldn't have even been in the prelim A.
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August 16, 2012 at
08:29:38 AM
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If there are only 25 cars they would likely run 3 heats not 4 so that throws your plan out the window.....
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August 16, 2012 at
02:57:27 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 16 2012 at 02:20:00 AM
Huh? They changed it this year and it was a ressounding success.
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Good point, Holden! Why do some people equate making suggestions with "Complaining"?
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August 16, 2012 at
06:56:45 PM
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to win the knoxville nationals, just set fast time, 200 points, win the heat race, 100 points, and win the feature, 200 points. bam you start on the front row of the nationals, if it was that easy!!!
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