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Topic: Tim Shaffer 2nd In Thurs Nationals Qualifier & Dont Make The Nationals ?
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August 14, 2012 at
07:44:05 PM
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Whats up With That
Can't Believe Tim Shaffer Came from 15th to Finish 2nd in Thursday Nights Qualifier & Doesn't even make THE KNOXVILLE NATIONALS!!!!
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August 14, 2012 at
07:48:58 PM
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That is the Nationals. Tim TT 32nd. That will not cut it at the Nationals. He started 7th in the B and did not move much.
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August 14, 2012 at
08:01:11 PM
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Hypothetically Speaking
Let's Say Tim Shaffer had finished 1st instead a 2nd last Thursday, would he have made the Knoxville Nationals then or still Missed Qualifying for The Knoxville Nationals after Winning the Knoxville Nationals 2nd Qualifying Night ?
Kind of silly Guys finishing up front in qualifying races and NOT Making THE KNOXVILLE NATIONALS
JUST SAYING
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August 14, 2012 at
08:38:01 PM
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It is all about earning points!!
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August 14, 2012 at
08:39:37 PM
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Point Taken
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August 14, 2012 at
10:08:31 PM
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Love the nationals. But to me this is a prime example of the biggest problem. TOO MUCH emphasis and points on time trials Cut points back on time trials and put more on racing. The reason we are there. There isnt even a close comparison to fairness in time trials when you have 50-60 cars from top 5 going out to last 5 going out. No matter the driver
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August 14, 2012 at
10:46:05 PM
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Tim went out 16th in TT and ended up 35th quick. Sammy: 47th out-10th quick. Meyers: 35th out-13th quick. 2 of the last 3 cars out to TT ended up 20th and 21st.
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August 14, 2012 at
10:49:36 PM
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For those that don't know, here is the Wednesday/Thursday Preliminary Format:
Wednesday and Thursday
Order of Events: Hot laps, Qualifications, Last Chance Heats,
5 Heats, C feature, B feature, A feature.
Qualifications - 200 points are awarded for quick timer, 198 for
second quick, 196 for third, etc.
Only the top 50 qualifiers make the heats, the rest are put in the
last chance heats in which the first eight finishers will fill the back
of that night's C feature (starting in the sixth row).
Last Chance Heats (for drivers out of the top 50 in Qual.) – 50 points
awarded to the winner, 47 for 2nd, etc.
Heats - 100 points are awarded for the heat winner, points go down
by three: 97, 94, 91, 88, etc.
Heats are inverted (8-10). This sets up the best racing of the
week. Top four finishers go to A, next four to B, last two to C.
C feature – Top two finishers go to back of the B. Third place is
worth 96 pts., 2nd is 94, etc.
B feature – The top four finishers transfer to the tail of the A. The
B awards 142 points for fifth, 140 for sixth and so on by twos.
A feature - The A feature points are the same as time trials: 200,
198, 196 etc. This explains how a driver can not make the A, but
if he timed well may have more points than someone who did make
the A.
First tie breaker is finish position in respective main event. Next tie breaker is rank in time trial. Other tie breaking criteria may be implemented if needed.
A perfect score (quick time, heat win, feature win) is 500.
The top 16 in points from Wed. and Thurs. are locked in to
Saturday's program.
The great thing about the Nationals format is that you have to be fast throughout the whole evening, Shaffer had a poor showing in Time Trials so that buried him in the points (although he was good enough to earn a starting spot in the B-Main).
Ask Frank
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August 14, 2012 at
10:50:39 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: longdong on August 14 2012 at 10:46:05 PM
Tim went out 16th in TT and ended up 35th quick. Sammy: 47th out-10th quick. Meyers: 35th out-13th quick. 2 of the last 3 cars out to TT ended up 20th and 21st.
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agreed, but its apparent that Tim had an issue in Time Trials, and then races back to 2nd in A, that is saturday A worthy no doubt. Anyone that went out 35th or worse had NO chance of making top 5 in time trials and are immediately to some degree behind the eight ball. Im not saying get rid of time trials or anything like that just dont put soooo much emphasis on time trials and put more on the racing. We want to see fast racing cars, not fast time trial cars in saturday A main.
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August 14, 2012 at
11:14:14 PM
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To me its this format that makes the Nationals so great. Everytime you hit the track is so important and time trials is no different. Points for TT makes it so guys don't play possum in TT to try to work the invert.
http://gph.is/XMLGff
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August 15, 2012 at
12:44:53 AM
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I agree, too much emphasis on Time Trials. But then best timers are inverted by 8, penalizes them too much in heats ... so?????
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August 15, 2012 at
01:21:37 AM
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This message was edited on
August 15, 2012 at
01:24:52 AM by HoldenCaulfield
TT's should award the same amount of points as the heats, not the same amount as the A main. Makes no sense that 2 laps without anyone else on the track counts the same as 25 laps with 24 cars on the track. JMO
A
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August 15, 2012 at
01:28:14 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: ColtanW on August 14 2012 at 10:49:36 PM
For those that don't know, here is the Wednesday/Thursday Preliminary Format:
Wednesday and Thursday
Order of Events: Hot laps, Qualifications, Last Chance Heats,
5 Heats, C feature, B feature, A feature.
Qualifications - 200 points are awarded for quick timer, 198 for
second quick, 196 for third, etc.
Only the top 50 qualifiers make the heats, the rest are put in the
last chance heats in which the first eight finishers will fill the back
of that night's C feature (starting in the sixth row).
Last Chance Heats (for drivers out of the top 50 in Qual.) – 50 points
awarded to the winner, 47 for 2nd, etc.
Heats - 100 points are awarded for the heat winner, points go down
by three: 97, 94, 91, 88, etc.
Heats are inverted (8-10). This sets up the best racing of the
week. Top four finishers go to A, next four to B, last two to C.
C feature – Top two finishers go to back of the B. Third place is
worth 96 pts., 2nd is 94, etc.
B feature – The top four finishers transfer to the tail of the A. The
B awards 142 points for fifth, 140 for sixth and so on by twos.
A feature - The A feature points are the same as time trials: 200,
198, 196 etc. This explains how a driver can not make the A, but
if he timed well may have more points than someone who did make
the A.
First tie breaker is finish position in respective main event. Next tie breaker is rank in time trial. Other tie breaking criteria may be implemented if needed.
A perfect score (quick time, heat win, feature win) is 500.
The top 16 in points from Wed. and Thurs. are locked in to
Saturday's program.
The great thing about the Nationals format is that you have to be fast throughout the whole evening, Shaffer had a poor showing in Time Trials so that buried him in the points (although he was good enough to earn a starting spot in the B-Main).
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Didn't their used to be passing points? I thought it was 2 points for each position gained?
A
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August 15, 2012 at
01:37:25 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 15 2012 at 01:21:37 AM
TT's should award the same amount of points as the heats, not the same amount as the A main. Makes no sense that 2 laps without anyone else on the track counts the same as 25 laps with 24 cars on the track. JMO
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Good idea. But maybe invert 4 or 6 so as not to penalize fast timers so much.
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August 15, 2012 at
05:00:46 AM
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It's the Nationals. It's not supposed to be easy. You have to be the best you can be every time you are on the track. The 24 cars that do the best job of that make the A-main on Saturday.
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August 15, 2012 at
05:48:53 AM
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The format is working when everyone is complaining!
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August 15, 2012 at
05:59:36 AM
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Whenever that many strong cars gather in one place strong cars are going to sit out the big show. A format that relies heavily on passing points would seem flawed on nights that the track starts out heavy one lane with little passing. When my favorite driver sits out the Feature the format sucks, if he does well the format is great. 
Stan Meissner
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August 15, 2012 at
06:11:05 AM
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Leave it alone. It is the only format in all of sprint car racing that does not allow for ANY sandbagging in qualifying. I love it. You can't even lay off a little with the risk of moving back 10-20 spots and losing points. If he deserved to be in the A-main, he would have passed a couple cars in the B-main. That is where the format allows for good cars with bad time trials to make up for their mistakes. He just wasn't fast enough. Had he timed in 10 spots faster, he is in the middle-back of the A main and he already knows that. That is why they call it "the most important 2 laps you will run all weekend". Don't change a thing about qualifying night if it were up to me. Also, loved new Fri. format.
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August 15, 2012 at
08:20:55 AM
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well the system has been close to the same for many years, passing ponts I do not think have ever been given, no gimme or provisionals at knoxville, the friday night format now is kinda a last chance to luck into the a, ( not sure if I like it or not)
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August 15, 2012 at
08:34:05 AM
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Rudedog has it right. It's the friggin Nationals, THE race of the year. Ever see the way they set up the US OPEN, it's to get the cream to rise to the top. 90% of the top guns get to the A and this year there were some exceptions but the fastest cars generally finish in the top 10 and this year wasn't much of an exception save for Sammy and maybe Steve. I do like the idea of adding a few more cars though either through a promoters option or taking 6 out of the B but by and large this deal ain't broke and doesn't need fixin'.......
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