Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Well, believe it or not, in most cases it does take some talent to be able to capture the right moment. And, there is a lot of time involved and cost. A photographers equipment is not cheap and there is regular maintenance on all of it, too. A photographer can have multi-thousands of dollars tied up in his (or her) gear and there also is the cost of travel. Would you like to have a photo of you in any sort of a publication or on the net and not be identified as such. A photo credit is basically the only thing a photographer receives anymore and to not be credited with their own work can make some wonder if it is worth the time they put into it because the payback usually is not much. BTW, what are royalties from photos? Most photogs don't know a lot about that (dripping sarcasm).

Ironically I have a similar story, being a driver owner and wrench on my own car I seen some graphics on a car I liked alot, without hesitation, I orderd some vinyl a bit different style than what was on the origonal, I made my own twist to something someone else had laid out on someone elses car, In photos it lookes very similar, but, under the light (seeing it in raw form) its completley different , I raced the car for one season, a photo showed up of my car on the web, I recieved a phone call from the origonal desighner asking who did my art work and why they stole his idea? at first, I was excited about the phone call , he was a bit surprized when I explained, I did the artwork, with a simple siccors and utility knife all by hand,and a simple 8X10 photo , his was drafted up on a computor program, so, who is defacing who? I still have the same artwork and dont intend on changing anytime soon, the car looks great and is easy to maintain , I can keep my focus on the engine,chassis tuning, and matinance of the car while the car its simple to duplicate and maintain its presence, (again all by hand)Agreed, I would be a bit confussed as to why someone thinks a night out at the bars is something most racers enjoy during race season, some people that have never worked and maintained a (competitive)car have no idea. for most (bluecollar) racers its not a sport, its a lifestyle.

I don't know who you are nor do I know the photographer you're talking about but I'll just illustrate my own situation and viewpoint. I'm 60 years old and have been writing for racing publications and doing some photography on the side for fifteen years but have been taking mostly non-racing photos as a hobby for decades prior to that. Getting involved hands on to promote the racing is something I jumped into head first as the nest emptied out and I found myself with more time on my hands.

My main purpose for taking photos is to get specific shots to fit the stories I'm writing and I display them on my website as well. For a while when I first started shooting race cars I thought I might be able to sell enough to supplement my travels but found out in short order that someone who splits their time between writing and photos can't compete with people that only take photos. Besides that I've got a full time job and some of these guys do the photography for a living so I have accepted my niche and only use it to supplement my writing. That is not to say that if somebody likes one of my shots I won't make it available and when I do sell something I charge the going rate out of respect for the other photographers.

Anyways I guess my point is that during the past 15 years it has become more political just trying to do this anymore. Those that know me personally know that I'm a writer and not a salesman so I'm not a threat but when I try to travel out of my local area I run into all kinds of politics. I guess I'm saying that not everybody approaches photography as a business and some of us make little or nothing and aren't out to make money. Royalties or many more race track and photographer politics would chase me back up in the stands. I like beer, I'm having one now as is my custom on non-racing Friday evenings after a long week at work. I spend decades in the stands drinking a cold one and relaxing, I'm quite good at it and if it gets to be too much of a hassle I'd probably lean in that direction.

Taking photos of race cars is fun but it's loud, noisy, potentially dangerous and really doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. My approach to racing is that I feel like I'm giving back to a sport that gave a lot to me during some difficult times. Not everyone looks at it that way and probably the day will come when my approach is no longer appreciated but until then I'll keep plugging away. As far as paying royalties to take photos, my beater that I drive back and forth to the races is an '89 Grand Marquee purchased two years ago for $1,000 so I think it's safe to say I'm not in it for the money. When the day comes that it is no longer possible to supplement my writing by taking racing photos I'm outa' here. Street Rods and Rat Rods are awesome, much safer to be around, no dust, minimal noise and there are thousands of awesome looking cars at the big meets as opposed to a couple dozen muddy Sprints with rock pock marks all over the wings.

My point is that not everyone taking photos is in it for the money. For some it has been a labor of love made possible by the cooperation of the tracks, sanctions, series, promoters and racers.

Stan Meissner

Something very similar to this is usually on the back of the pit sign in sheet.

2. Signing the pit release gives the speedway rights to utilize your image or photos, videos, electronic or any other medium for advertising, promotion or any other event or circumstance regarding speedway business. Speedway Entertainment Group LLC. owns the rights to all media generated while on speedway property or at an event in the community promoting racing at Sprinport Motor Speedway. Any Photographer, Media Member , subcontractor or their employee signing the pit waiver is signing an agreement to these rights.

Jeff Kristensen

Good point.

Stan Meissner

Truth be told, there isn't a whole lot of money out there to be made taking pictures of short track racing. Here is a little story about what magazines pay. I got a cover on a nationally distributed magazine that specializes in modified racing. I also got a picture (postage stamp sized) published in Road and Track in the letters section. Can you guess what paid more?

Oh, and I am not complaining one bit. I take pictures mainly to chronicle the sport I love, share the experience with both race fans and non race fans. If I can get just one person to attend a race that wouldn't have otherwise, then I feel that I am doing a little bit to grow the sport.

www.manvelmotorsports.com

Like Stan (And I worked with him for a while when the IRA hit Cedar Lake and Superior in years gone by) I started taking pictures because I loved teh sport. It also gave me teh chance to do something that no one ever did for me when I raced, offer some memories for the drivers and teams in the way of pictures. In fact, I routinely was criticised by other photographers for giving the snapshots to teams instead of charging them. To me that showed what they were there for which motivated me even more.

Was there any money to be made? NO - but there sure were many who tried.

The biggest thing I think I gained from my efforts was some respect from those I worked with and traveled with week in and week out. As for the pictures themselves: those memories are stashed in boxes all neatly organized an for the most part untouched since leaving WI for the land of NASCAR. My heart still goes back to the IRA.

And as for Jeff's input, I always found it very flattering when tracks and promoters would call and ask for photos for ads. Yes I always made sure the credit was there but it was more a mutual understanding and Jeff is entirely correct. If a track and promoter is granting you entrance at their expense, in a sense you owe it to them to allow them to use your work. In a very real sense, you have already been paid for it in advance. Good point Jeff!

Paul

Just my $.02 worth.

Hey Paul, how's it going.

Stan Meissner