Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
Moderators: Racing From The Past

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Oh man I had flashbacks of the #327 changing into a red Edmunds and a #4 or 04 on it from the Schippert days..

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

I watched the video and the KAR super modifieds were great. I know every one has an opinion as they should, but to me all of the rest of the cars are not even close to being a vintage car. Modern late model or IMCA modified chassis with an old body is an insult to vintage racing. Like I said, one mans opinion.

there were a few vintage open wheel race cars at whisky lake, the rest were NOT vintage race cars and should not be called vintage. if you want to see what real vintage cars are check out the dozens affilliated with the kansas antique racers..... those folks affiliatedwith that club need to re-name thier association ........

I agree with the two previous posts. Other than the vintage steel on these cars, you would've been as well off to have had late models and mods racing together. JMO

I will commend them for racing for a good cause!!

Bruce

Red Racer 9
37 Chevy Vintage Mod
Member: OVSCRA & RRVO

There kind of like GOTRA in Nebraska.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Hate to disagree Warren but GOTRA cars are full frame,straight axle, leaf spring 330 cubic inch. The cars on that video were on late model and IMCA modified chassis. I don't beleave any of them were running any engines as old as a 327 eather. Those cars were tube chassis with all of todays modern shocks, coil springs, pull bars ,3 link or 4 bars. The latest technology. They should not be allowed to use the word vintage to describe the cars at all.

Your right but GOTRA actually races don't they, not exhibition racing?

I didn't make myself clear as normal. I understand the differences.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Yes, GOTRA races their cars. I've got one of Rich Andersons old cars and it's a GOTRA car that I race mainly in the Oklahoma/Arkansas area. Hoping to take it to the Cornhusker Vintage Nationals at US 30 Speedway hosted by GOTRA in the near future.

By the way Warren, I enjoy Racing From The Past. I grew up watching the mods and supers in the Roseville, CA area in the 60's. I race with a group of guys and gals that enjoy it as much, if not more than I do.

Bruce

Red Racer 9
37 Chevy Vintage Mod
Member: OVSCRA & RRVO

First of all I applaud those guys using leftover IMCA and late model chassis to put some spice back into a racing show. They could inspire a lot of good for racing in general. I hope they keep doing it. If I were in it, i'd have to do a '55 chevy- complete with amatuer lettering and paint that has no gloss. I could credit card the rest most likely , of course some fabbing would have to come into play as well.

I wouldn't consider them vintage nor antique. But I wouldn't call them obsolete either. I'd consider them 'nostalgic'. This concept has worked very well for the drag racing industry for many years, and could work for dirt track racing if there was a more positive response to the effort of putting color and shape back into racing. Many of these people like vintage cars, but are unable to justify what the vintage race car guys do in order to exhibit or do gentlemans rules track time.

They take what they have and try to make it work and have fun. Like it's always been. The junkyards have changed into ebay, and racers auctions for the most part.

Make no mistake- Independant suspensioned cars are getting older, and they'll be looking to get in. Finding a balance is crucial, or we'll continue to fight over it all, and watch our interest go into the air like a fine mist on a hot summer day. I am amazed at the number of on track vintage open wheel cars from the past 20 years that are now 'shop ornaments'. Vintage , antique,etc etc, cars are never out of style, nor 'obsolete'.

My personal stance is to protect what has been worked for now down here, and even from where I sit, i notice that we are all forced to make exceptions. That is very hard to do when it conflicts with the dream of seeing the cars of old. Vintage , and antique, etc etc, guys tend to have so many differences of what is, and should be. It gets crazy. real crazy sometimes. Yet the five year old in me is here to see old supermodifieds and it's going to take an entire movement to get to see the few there are.

It's obvious to me that racing needs diversity much like that seen in the entire clip. Old style cars doing laps, and newer style-nostalgic like cars racing just might keep a few tracks open if it were to spread. Rules are like fences, and we need a few. For many years from here, flat bodied cars will continue to throw dirt and race.

Some people plain demand racing, some people plain demand vintage. The two don't get along real well in some cases, but many times there is only one track to deal with.

Hey Brian I agree with alot of what you are saying. I think you may have hit it on the nail head when you called them nostalgic or something similar may be more in line. They were still cool to watch, it was I think calling them vintage that didn't set well. We understand the costs involved in any racing in general and in vintage, finding the vintage parts are even harder sometimes. In todays economy so many tracks and racers are falling to the wayside. We need to protect what we do have, not discourage!

Bruce

Red Racer 9
37 Chevy Vintage Mod
Member: OVSCRA & RRVO

In the case of Whiskey Lake maybe a nostalgic class would help off and on through out the season. With the population it has to draw from (Manhattan, Fort Riley or Junction City etc.) they need something it looks like. It is close enough for maybe the GOTRA club to come race at. I too think it is cool to see those "BODIED" cars racing. Brings back the 70's in me, Chevelles, Camaros, Mustangs and 55-57 Chevies and Fords.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Warren, the 70's with camaro's, chevelle's , 55 and 57 chevies were coil spring cars. It is not so crazy to put them on a modern chassis. The old coupes on that type chassis is what I call an insult to vintage racing. Brian, your statement, [ some peaple plain demand racing and some peaple demand vintage and the two don't get along very well ] They get along fine if you do what we do. We race vintage cars.....I don't think anyone who watches us race will say it is not competitive racing and I would bet the cars on that video cost a lot more than ours do. The satisfaction of knowing when we tell some little kid that our cars raced back in the day that we are not telling them a big lie is worth any extra effort we might put out.

By 'racing' I meant Todays race cars in general doing what they do- race. Many people could care less what the cars look like, or their history- or even if there is any history. These people just want to see cars mix it up with serious intent. The drivers they go to see, consider a modern day race car as dispensible, throw away if needed. Yet I have also found these fans are a shrinking minority in the world of automotive special interests.

Every single Legendary race car driver I have ever met, never cared during his heyday about historical value on his race car, he only came to do one thing. I am fully aware that 95% of todays vintage racers do not have the interest to push the envelope that far.

MY exposure to 'racing' involved watching a bunch of 20-somethings, 30 somethings, and 40+ drivers whipping 1,700 pound race cars around , cranking out the revs of a 6 or 8 cylinder-looking for Saturday night glory as if their lives depended on it.

Interestingly I have found those old drivers who REALLY did it, to be some of the most humble to turn a wheel. It seems like most of us who still wish to finally get a chance to do it, even if the old days are gone--are the hardest to please. I live this all day long, all day long. I talk to sooooo many people over the films, cars being built, cars gone, drivers who have been there etc etc etc. ALL DAY LONG, EVERYDAY. I make it my job to know what the trend is nationwide, THAT IS MY JOB. If 'racing' was the trend, I would agree with you. Unfortunately it is not.

That being said, going fast and getting close is a show for the fans and they love it.They also love display only cars too.

I KNOW I can make 10 calls covering the region and 7 of those people will have a different view of how things should be- whether it's 'display', 'track time', or 'race'. 'Racing' vintage cars is at the bottom of the list in terms of getting the most cars in. It's hard enough getting 'display only' cars to come to an 'on track' show just to help on the car count, and vice-versa.

We need cars on both sides of the grandstands, and we need to get along. My vote for on track is "go fast , but don't hit anybody, or hurt yourself". Things are gonna happen, but all out racing vintage cars will kill the car count in a hurry. Take that to the bank.

Brian, check out www.ovscra.com, watch the video of our last heat race at the bottom of the home page and read the mission statement, I think yours and ford6man27 ideas are not as far apart as you think. He has kept this club going for eleven years and is passionate about vintage race cars. There's a 34 chevy being rebuilt in his shop that was raced in Monett, MO and I've got a good friend who's gathering the parts to build his vintage mod and have it on the track this spring. Yes we race our cars, but also we have cars that don't race as well. We also firmly believe that rubbing is wrecking, thats something you can't do in an open wheel car!

Good Night Vintage Racing America

Bruce

Red Racer 9
37 Chevy Vintage Mod
Member: OVSCRA & RRVO

Bruce are you the Bruce Hill that used to live in Topeka and raced NASCAR Cup in the 70's and very 80's????

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Are you talking about the 1973 NASCAR Rookie of the Year? No, I'm not that gentlemen. It would've been neat to have been him and had his NASCAR opportunity. I'm just a regular (55 year old) guy who was introduced to modifieds and supers by his Dad as a kid about eight or nine years old in Roseville, CA (I think they call the track All American Speedway now and it's paved). When I was younger, I wanted to race late models when they were still Chevelles, Camaros, Mustangs, and the like. Several years ago I met a group of guys who raced the Jalopies and fell in love with them all over again and had to get me one. I've got the 37 Chevy five window coupe I race now and a 35 Ford five window coupe (flat head six car back in its day) that still needs restored to its former glory. Sorry to disapoint, but I'm just old Joe regular racer.

Bruce

Red Racer 9
37 Chevy Vintage Mod
Member: OVSCRA & RRVO

Your story is very much like that of most of the other owners , including me.

We're the kind of fans that have jumped in with both feet to save what is left of the golden age , and work to see it survive, and maybe bloom once again.

Yes, in our deal here too, 'rubbin is wreckin'. Down here we don't want to do 'parade laps' behind a pace car, we want to get sideways while getting our cars bit dirty and run hard enough to see if the overheating issues are okay and if the gamble on chassis setup was a good bet. THIS ALL LEADS TO FASTER LAP TIMES, and people will be running slower in front of you, so you have to pass them, and so on. Each time behind the wheel , a man wants to go faster. As long as it's within reason, the people love the show, have at it! If things get over the top, then there will be a need to scale back a bit. Should two cars get close to each other, and do a clean job of trading positions back and forth, with competent drivers and cars, rock on! Nobody wants the excitement watered down, yet we do have to survive as a movement.

I personally avoid the term 'racing' because it can bring too much in, too fast. We have jobs, kids, grandkids, wives and mortgages to go back to Sunday morning. Anybody gets hurt, and the kids, grandkids and wives will have a problem with us coming back to do more laps. They are the pipers that have to be paid these days, and there is no easy way around that.

I watched the video and it looked like good clean driving to me. Many of us, including me, are wanting to get to that level of harmony on track. But we are still working on our start somewhere.

We've been trying to get our effort off the ground here for 2-3 years now, but the political back and forth has stifled us. I've wanted to quit altogether several times-but so many good people have helped me get the stuff needed to build a car or two (to use, not sell) ,pictures and memorabilia people gave in good trust, and then the film thing came in, then the get-togethers/reunions came in. I don't even think about the thousands of dollars I've spent so far , but sometimes I think I should.

I have a strong sense that I 'owe' these good honest people that are looking for their slot of this world to fit in somewhere. They want to see coupes, sedans, super modifieds, modifieds, old A framers, old midgets, old sprint cars, indy roadsters, and anything that even relates.

At the top of the pile in popularity seems to be a tie between coupes/sedans and vintage cageless midgets. Yet I have found the people easiest to deal with are those that run coupes/sedans, and since I come from people of the same ilk, I am inclined to keep their interests at heart.

I know my Dad wouldn't mind seeing you guys run, and that's enough to keep me in place.

I forgot to throw this in-

I know of six non-smallblock chevy engined cars(yes-wide tinbodies with skinny tires) within 100 miles of me right now, that would fit your shows as either display or on track. yes they all run, or could in just a few hours. I know of three more that would have been built or finished had we kept this thing rolling without the turmoil, over the past 2-3 years in our neck of the woods. A little backstabbing and lying, gets talked about amongst everybody and leads to baaaadddd mojo.

I don't really want to get into who what or where with anybody about our issues, that never pays.

HAD WE kept up with getting along with each other down here overall, we could have had 6 to 9 cars to meet up with you guys of the OVSCRA. The enjoining of the two groups could have led to a very powerful marketing tool in regards to more cars being built. Then if we had kept the colors and lettering old school, there would have been a decent chance a corporate interest would have gotten involved for the advertising value. All we had to do was keep it real, and stay safe, and have fun.

It all could still work. These old dirt track cars we love, are a great product! Awesome head turners for sure, that have more visual drawing power than much of what is out there. Throw in some drivers, and owners that are a joy to be around , and you have a winner.

We cannot replace the owners or the drivers, so the negative back and forth is going to have to go out the door, and a workable compramise is going to have to occur. Otherwise we'll just continue to plug along with less than 10 cars per show, and be unable to build a long standing relationship with a track in most cases, since they shut down and start up so often.

Hardcore, wheelbanging vintage racers, are a small minority in this thing we are of. But it's hard to forget when they make a lot of noise. I know......someday I'll tell you guys the real reason the show at Ada , OSP never took off like it should have. We were shot in the butt before we ever got there, and didn't even know it. I am still very angry over that one, and that's too bad since I am unable to let go of a deep grudge easily. I came to a point where I either had to quit and dissapear, or keep trying. I did wait for someone to come in and take over and set up shows down here, but no one did. People kept looking at me, and when nothing was being planned closeby, I just had to jump in and be a hero again. But I won't stay long if leads to more bickering middle age men.

I have enough of that where I work.