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Topic: David Brotherton SW Automotive School Super-Modified
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Page 1 of 3 of 40 replies
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April 21, 2011 at
08:49:26 PM
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Latest build, plan to have it on display at the next reunion at Holley's:
John Stewart
Retro Racing Custom Model Cars
405.922.6163
[email protected]
Oklahoma City, OK
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/235624429834292#!/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/23562442983429
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April 21, 2011 at
11:32:43 PM
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269
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Reply to:
Posted By: jlstew25 on April 21 2011 at 08:49:26 PM
Latest build, plan to have it on display at the next reunion at Holley's:
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John
Another great job from your model garage. Question for you. Where did you find the wheels you used on the Nance Sprint Car?
Mike
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April 22, 2011 at
07:09:44 AM
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407
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Reply to:
Posted By: pokeyokie on April 21 2011 at 11:32:43 PM
John
Another great job from your model garage. Question for you. Where did you find the wheels you used on the Nance Sprint Car?
Mike
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I've been casting the Weld Wheels on the left side out of resin. The RR is from a Monogram kit and I made the RF wheel cover.
John Stewart
Retro Racing Custom Model Cars
405.922.6163
[email protected]
Oklahoma City, OK
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/235624429834292#!/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/23562442983429
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April 22, 2011 at
08:23:45 AM
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John,
Great job as always, hope Jim Messimer see's this, he would be proud.
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April 22, 2011 at
09:28:03 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: DGM 7620 on April 22 2011 at 08:23:45 AM
John,
Great job as always, hope Jim Messimer see's this, he would be proud.
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Thanks, David. Here are some pics Mike sent me of the real car:
John Stewart
Retro Racing Custom Model Cars
405.922.6163
[email protected]
Oklahoma City, OK
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/235624429834292#!/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/23562442983429
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April 22, 2011 at
10:07:39 AM
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John , Great job, even like the downright authenticity of carbon/smoke deposits off the header on the side panel, excellent work.
J.D.
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April 22, 2011 at
10:24:23 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on April 22 2011 at 10:07:39 AM
John , Great job, even like the downright authenticity of carbon/smoke deposits off the header on the side panel, excellent work.
J.D.
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Now David, John or JD, here is a question for you all. Is this super an old Aaron Madden owned, Jack Walker built super from maybe 1971 or 1972? I think Larry Madden drove his Dad's old car in 1973 with the #1 which was a Walker built car I think. I do have a photo of that car when he ran down here for the Lawton NCRA in 1973.
Mike
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April 22, 2011 at
11:33:39 AM
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Mr. Grace would know i would bet , one other ques. I have is wonder that car eventually wound up in Lawton, Car and Paint scheme seem to resemble what Bill Tuttwiler ran when he had it was #66 and he ran the Phillips 66 Station there on Lee Blvd. Probably not same car but sure looks like it.
J.D.
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April 22, 2011 at
09:19:16 PM
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To All,
I believe this is the 2nd Walker Car that Aaron had, I could be wrong, Jim would know for sure. I believe the first Walker car Aaron had had the torsion mounted cross bar running forward under the seat I know Mike you or Brian have posted pic's of it, it was blue with the #01 Aaron ran it for awhile then Larry drove it and Grady Wade, George Stephens ran it as a modified for a while then put a V-8 in it and ran it some. But this car Aaron ran in '72 or '73 when he and Leep were team cars, Leeps car was the Jelly T-Top stacked tube spring front car that he won the NCRA Championship in '73 it was and didn't run the last half of the year. Aarons car was this car here, I believe the first year he ran it it was a pretty metelflake blue with a goldish colored strip. David won alot of races with this car, it is the first car that I ever saw run an inboard rear brake, it is the car he almost won the '75 championship in at the Fairgrounds in OKC. I know Thad Dosier drove it at the Big track at Tulsa a few times, I don't remember if he won this one race at Tulsa but if he didn't he ran right at the front, it was at the time that everybody was running LR's on the RF, we were running 107/110 inch Drag 500's on the RR and 96/102 LR so you had to run a 92 or bigger RF but Thad ran the old 6:00/16 ribs we all thought he was goofy, he drove the shit out of it and drove by everybody on the outside right against the wall, he's one of the few that I ever saw do that and make it work!!!! Hopefully Jim will read this and be able to tell us more.
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April 22, 2011 at
09:49:25 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: DGM 7620 on April 22 2011 at 09:19:16 PM
To All,
I believe this is the 2nd Walker Car that Aaron had, I could be wrong, Jim would know for sure. I believe the first Walker car Aaron had had the torsion mounted cross bar running forward under the seat I know Mike you or Brian have posted pic's of it, it was blue with the #01 Aaron ran it for awhile then Larry drove it and Grady Wade, George Stephens ran it as a modified for a while then put a V-8 in it and ran it some. But this car Aaron ran in '72 or '73 when he and Leep were team cars, Leeps car was the Jelly T-Top stacked tube spring front car that he won the NCRA Championship in '73 it was and didn't run the last half of the year. Aarons car was this car here, I believe the first year he ran it it was a pretty metelflake blue with a goldish colored strip. David won alot of races with this car, it is the first car that I ever saw run an inboard rear brake, it is the car he almost won the '75 championship in at the Fairgrounds in OKC. I know Thad Dosier drove it at the Big track at Tulsa a few times, I don't remember if he won this one race at Tulsa but if he didn't he ran right at the front, it was at the time that everybody was running LR's on the RF, we were running 107/110 inch Drag 500's on the RR and 96/102 LR so you had to run a 92 or bigger RF but Thad ran the old 6:00/16 ribs we all thought he was goofy, he drove the shit out of it and drove by everybody on the outside right against the wall, he's one of the few that I ever saw do that and make it work!!!! Hopefully Jim will read this and be able to tell us more.
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David,
Thank you for the information. I do have photos of all the cars you mentioned. Here is one for you, Wayne Cox drove the blue 01 car at our NCRA race here in Lawton in 1972. Wayne had already retired from racing earlier during the middle part of the 1970 season. Wayne also drove Hank Malone's super #99 at our NCRA races in 1971. He also drove Clinton Herring's #5 car in 1974 a few times and even won a couple features here in Lawton during the 1974 season. David keep sharing your valuable information with us. I really enjoy it.
Mike
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April 23, 2011 at
04:01:54 AM
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Great job John. Yes this is the Walker car, built new in 71' for Aaron.
When dad got the car in 74' it was a basket case, we carried it in the school pretty much in boxes. Dad did the inboard brake & also ran the Powerglide in it, one of the first automatics around. The 3 years David drove he finished top 5 in points all 3 years.
When the big track in Tulsa opened in 74' the very first night we won a heat & ran 3rd in the A, made about $800! Big bucks for those days, but with the giant crowds Tulsa always paid good. In addition to David, dad drove the car a few times. D.E. Suggs drove it one night at Lawton, he was the only driver that killed one of dads motors! List of drivers to the best of my memory, David, dad, D.E., Thad Dosher, Jay Woodside, Gene Daniels. After 76' Randy Brotherton ran it as a 6-cylinder for 2 years I believe. The last I remember Dutch had the frame when he was over on 23rd street, have no idea where it went after that.
Would sure love to have that car back!!!
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April 23, 2011 at
08:12:33 AM
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377
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Reply to:
Posted By: jimmessmer on April 23 2011 at 04:01:54 AM
Great job John. Yes this is the Walker car, built new in 71' for Aaron.
When dad got the car in 74' it was a basket case, we carried it in the school pretty much in boxes. Dad did the inboard brake & also ran the Powerglide in it, one of the first automatics around. The 3 years David drove he finished top 5 in points all 3 years.
When the big track in Tulsa opened in 74' the very first night we won a heat & ran 3rd in the A, made about $800! Big bucks for those days, but with the giant crowds Tulsa always paid good. In addition to David, dad drove the car a few times. D.E. Suggs drove it one night at Lawton, he was the only driver that killed one of dads motors! List of drivers to the best of my memory, David, dad, D.E., Thad Dosher, Jay Woodside, Gene Daniels. After 76' Randy Brotherton ran it as a 6-cylinder for 2 years I believe. The last I remember Dutch had the frame when he was over on 23rd street, have no idea where it went after that.
Would sure love to have that car back!!!
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JM,
What year was it that Aaron ran it when it was Blue & Gold? I remember your Dad driving the car one year at Enid I believe it was at the Winter Nationals, seems like he ran 1st or 2nd in the D,C&B and made the A, where I believe he finished 6th or 7th on a Big Jalonney and a 13.5 sawtooth LR, ran all those races on 1 set of tires at Enid, not something that happens much now days!!
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April 23, 2011 at
10:05:25 AM
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269
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Reply to:
Posted By: DGM 7620 on April 23 2011 at 08:12:33 AM
JM,
What year was it that Aaron ran it when it was Blue & Gold? I remember your Dad driving the car one year at Enid I believe it was at the Winter Nationals, seems like he ran 1st or 2nd in the D,C&B and made the A, where I believe he finished 6th or 7th on a Big Jalonney and a 13.5 sawtooth LR, ran all those races on 1 set of tires at Enid, not something that happens much now days!!
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David,
Hope you don't mind if I but in. The blue and gold Walker built super that Aaron Madden drove was 1972. It sure was a beautiful car, I even built a model of it. Jim Harkness drove the car at Oklahoma City for a while after Arron got hurt in the car one night.
Mike
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April 23, 2011 at
01:41:04 PM
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377
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Reply to:
Posted By: pokeyokie on April 23 2011 at 10:05:25 AM
David,
Hope you don't mind if I but in. The blue and gold Walker built super that Aaron Madden drove was 1972. It sure was a beautiful car, I even built a model of it. Jim Harkness drove the car at Oklahoma City for a while after Arron got hurt in the car one night.
Mike
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Mike,
Your right about it being beautiful, it was one of my favorite cars back in those days, I do remember Harkness driving it some, didn't Larry win the NCRA race at Lawton in this car in '73 seems like it was the last race of the year?
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April 23, 2011 at
03:23:10 PM
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269
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Reply to:
Posted By: DGM 7620 on April 23 2011 at 01:41:04 PM
Mike,
Your right about it being beautiful, it was one of my favorite cars back in those days, I do remember Harkness driving it some, didn't Larry win the NCRA race at Lawton in this car in '73 seems like it was the last race of the year?
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David,
You are right, Larry Madden did win the race. It was September 9th. I feel real lucky to have been able to watch all those great days of racing. Didn't Melvin Rogers and Doc Grice own the first Jack Walker built super in Oklahoma City which was 1970?
Mike
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April 23, 2011 at
07:18:48 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: pokeyokie on April 23 2011 at 03:23:10 PM
David,
You are right, Larry Madden did win the race. It was September 9th. I feel real lucky to have been able to watch all those great days of racing. Didn't Melvin Rogers and Doc Grice own the first Jack Walker built super in Oklahoma City which was 1970?
Mike
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Were all the walker "Edmonds" cars alike?I know that he built the Chevy deuce in Wichita for Raymond Cates in the winter of 68-69. Did he move to OKC in 1970? Did he do the design work on the parallel bar cars that he built? I never saw another chassis like his with the the front parallel bars and the cage kick downs coming out of the rear window.
Ray
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April 23, 2011 at
09:03:39 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: pokeyokie on April 23 2011 at 10:05:25 AM
David,
Hope you don't mind if I but in. The blue and gold Walker built super that Aaron Madden drove was 1972. It sure was a beautiful car, I even built a model of it. Jim Harkness drove the car at Oklahoma City for a while after Arron got hurt in the car one night.
Mike
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One of the clips we have up has just a second of the blue and gold Madden car, and only the top half . All I have is just s tease of color film . But what I can see says that car was infectious. Beautiful!
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April 24, 2011 at
09:56:33 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: pokeyokie on April 23 2011 at 03:23:10 PM
David,
You are right, Larry Madden did win the race. It was September 9th. I feel real lucky to have been able to watch all those great days of racing. Didn't Melvin Rogers and Doc Grice own the first Jack Walker built super in Oklahoma City which was 1970?
Mike
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Mike,
I'm not positive but I thought Aaron had the 1st Walker actually built in OKC. It seems like they started out in Aarons shop first and part of the deal was to build him a car. I know there was a story that I heard Jack tell one time about he and Aarons dogs not getting along and that is the reason they moved on out to 29th street. I'll have Jerry Havill go by and ask Jack for an answer to both questions.
I'm 99.9 percent sure that all the design work on the parallel front Walkers was there idea's, yes alot of people had built parallel bar cars but most were rear parallel cars. The cage kick downs that they put on alot of cars was there deal also, all builder's were scrambling around to do something to keep the cages up. When you look at it today it is kinda amazing what racer's were doing with those little 302 motor's in those days. Speeds picked up and the Drag 500 and Marsh Humper came along then they built the big track at Tulsa which flat exceeded any safety margin built in to cars at that time. The chassis were barely able to cope with the speeds at places like OKC, Muskogee Fairgrounds & Devils Bowl when you crashed bad. Then you add on the speed increase at Tulsa and it was like pulling the pin on the grenade and playing with it. People can say what they want but one of the reason's I have so much respect for the driver's of this ERA, when they went out on that track there was an above average chance that they were going to get hurt bad or worse if they crashed bad. Tulsa Big Track was built about 20 years to soon, it was way ahead of the cars but it didn't keep teams from trying to go there and win!!!!!
Aaron's cars were usually white with a red or blue #1, he did have the gold and black #1 in the 60's but generally the were white but when he came along with that Blue & Gold Walker car it was one of the prettiest cars that I had ever seen.
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April 24, 2011 at
10:32:11 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: DGM 7620 on April 24 2011 at 09:56:33 AM
Mike,
I'm not positive but I thought Aaron had the 1st Walker actually built in OKC. It seems like they started out in Aarons shop first and part of the deal was to build him a car. I know there was a story that I heard Jack tell one time about he and Aarons dogs not getting along and that is the reason they moved on out to 29th street. I'll have Jerry Havill go by and ask Jack for an answer to both questions.
I'm 99.9 percent sure that all the design work on the parallel front Walkers was there idea's, yes alot of people had built parallel bar cars but most were rear parallel cars. The cage kick downs that they put on alot of cars was there deal also, all builder's were scrambling around to do something to keep the cages up. When you look at it today it is kinda amazing what racer's were doing with those little 302 motor's in those days. Speeds picked up and the Drag 500 and Marsh Humper came along then they built the big track at Tulsa which flat exceeded any safety margin built in to cars at that time. The chassis were barely able to cope with the speeds at places like OKC, Muskogee Fairgrounds & Devils Bowl when you crashed bad. Then you add on the speed increase at Tulsa and it was like pulling the pin on the grenade and playing with it. People can say what they want but one of the reason's I have so much respect for the driver's of this ERA, when they went out on that track there was an above average chance that they were going to get hurt bad or worse if they crashed bad. Tulsa Big Track was built about 20 years to soon, it was way ahead of the cars but it didn't keep teams from trying to go there and win!!!!!
Aaron's cars were usually white with a red or blue #1, he did have the gold and black #1 in the 60's but generally the were white but when he came along with that Blue & Gold Walker car it was one of the prettiest cars that I had ever seen.
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David
Thank you for answering my question. I remember going up to Oklahoma City before the 1970 season started one cold Sunday afternoon with still some snow on the ground just to see the tech inspection on the cars and watch some practice laps, but the practice session got cancelled. Melvin Rogers had his new Walker built super there and Ray Cates had his new Walker car there too. I remember Melvin Rogers car was sponsored by Richardson Engine Service. The Ray Cates car was the same one that Harold Leep got hurt bad when hid throttle stuck going into turn three and plowed into the back of Larry Holman's green super which was parked up against the rail. you are right about both Tulsa and Oklahoma City tracks being dangerous back then. My good friend who I knew since we went to junior high school through a couple years at Cameron College was killed on that big half mile in Oklahoma City in 1972. His name was Roger Clark. Roger had really no business running on that track but at least I get to thinking he was killed loving what he always wanted to do. He didn't die at the race track but was in coma for some time after his crash.I will try to post a photo of the blue and gold Aaron Madden model I made during the 1972 season. It is not a very good quality photo but I'll try to post it.Remember I'm old school and don't know all about these computers. Wish I still had that model.
Mike
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April 24, 2011 at
10:59:22 AM
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When Aaron got the car new in 71' it was pearl white with blue stripes & just about the prettiest car around at that time. I believe he won 1 feature in OKC that year & the NCRA race in Shreveport on the asphalt.
In 72' he changed to the Metallic blue with gold stripes, that was the year he brike his back & Harkness filled in. 72' was also the year he got the other car that was # 01.
73' he was still racing the Walker car, but I'm pretty sure when Larry won the NCRA race at Lawton it was in the Jelly car. Me & Ernie went to the Wichita NCRA with Aaron & Larry that summer & for sure Larry was driving the Jelly car.
David you are right about the tire deal. Would like to see some body these days do 4 feature races on one set of tires. How mant people on here remember hot lapping in May, Scuffing in a new right rear, & stashing it in the trailer to "cure" for the Hutch race in July? Fun times.
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