Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

OK, I am a dirt modified guy from Northeastern Pennsylvania who covers NASCAR racing on pit road for MRN Radio.

My favorite type of racing is dirt track and I enjoy sprint car racing and hosting Winged Nation on MotorRacingNetwork.com very much.

But, I need some help. One of my "pet peeves" about sprint car racing are fuel stops, I can't get my arms around the need for a stop in a 25-30 lap race? And then I see where Craig Dollansky ran out of fuel headed for the checkers on Saturday night.

Can someone explain this to me?

And, we will kick this around tomorrow on Winged Nation!

DN1967 got the starting point correct. Back before the weight rules when the teams figured out that a smaller, lighter midget tank held enough fuel to run a full feature, that's what they started using. That was, what, 20-25 years ago now (someone help me out, please)? It got so bad that teams started using micro sprint tail tanks to qualify at the Knoxville Nationals, and then would change to a bigger tank for the rest of the races (this practice was legislated out, I believe). With all of the advancements in the engines since this practice started, they now get worse fuel mileage than they used to and the midget tanks aren't big enough to run a bunch of caution laps if necessary. Sometimes you can get away with it if the crew fills the tank all the way, but not everyone will do this - again to save the weight. So basically, the cat got out of the bag 20 years ago on the weight savings and now no one wants to go back. They will have to be forced to buy bigger tanks. I remember reading a Brian Brown quote earlier this year that he didn't want to spend the extra money on a big tank for WoO races when he didn't need it at any other time during the season.

Signature here.

In a feature that took over an hour to run you would expect MANY fuel issues, not just the leader, c'est la vie....

I'm a "fill it to the top" guy. I never want to be the guy that didn't put enough fuel in. If memory serves, methanol weighs 8 lbs. per gallon. A couple extra gallons isn't going to be the deciding factor, in my opinion. I've never driven a sprint car through a feature and felt the fuel load change, though, so I could be talking out of my rear, but I've also never been the guy that didn't put enough fuel in, so I guess it all comes out in the wash.

As sad as it is, a simple solution IS in the cards. Now if the tracks will cater to the fans instead of the racers in this case we can put fuel stops to rest. Tell everyone in the drivers meeting there will be NO FUEL STOPS period during the night. I guarantee SOMEONE will have enough fuel to win the race. Then the others will have to fall into line to compete. Its not like this isn't done all the time anyways, (people making rules that have to be followed, costing guys some $) every class of racing in America has done it at some point. Id bet Brian Brown (and everyone else, he was the one mentioned above and I know of where he races most the time so hes just an example) would be more than willing to buy the bigger tank if he had to use it at Knoxville, I-80, Jacksonville, Sedalia etc. Along with the Outlaws shows.

Like Issac Newton said: To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction.'

'I'll shed that 7 or 8 lbs of fuel for maybe a pass or two ...just hope she makes it to the checkers.'

One other comment ....Sides appears (I said appears) to be a little more portly than Dollansky ..... so perhaps Sides started the feature with even more initial weight than Dollansky between having enough fuel to make it to the checkers and his extra 20 or more lbs he is 'spotting Dollansky in the gym?'

Just wondering ..... Did they got the fuel totally topped off in Dollansky's or if Dollansky pushed off a lap or two before Sides, or a richer running fuel management requirement, wing angle (higher drag burns more fuel) a minuscule combination of some of the above? The possibilities can be pretty enigmatic.

No matter how you 'slice' it ...a tough way to lose for Dollansky ..... a great ending for Sides.

S.H.S.

I was gonna say the same thing earlier. If weight was the case, Kinser would be sipping beer in the stands while Joey lapped the field. Jason Statler would be watching from the pits as Kyle Larson started from the pole every week and drove away from everyone, and Brad Sweet wouldn't have a care in the world when he got to the track. Any of those guys could win a big race, and I'm pretty sure whether or not they were down 8 lbs. in the tank would be what did it.

I could be way off base, really, I could. But I just can't be convinced that 8 lbs., hell, even 24 lbs. of fuel is going to make or break a race for you. Especially when you run out when you're out front in an Outlaw show. It'd be worth the gamble to have that extra 8 lbs. in the trunk to win it if you ask me.

But I'm just a kart guy that scrapes mud and pushes a broom for a team... so maybe I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, no sarcasm intended. I could totally be out to lunch, and if I am, feel free to correct me.

Exactly...

There were quite a few that ran out of fuel at least once during that race... The winner ran out after the checkers... If there had not been the gazillion yellow laps for what semed like an enternity, there would not have been a problem or a different outcome for that matter. Sides was checking out and had to endure, what 8? restarts?

Can't blame anyone that put only ten gallons in on that red... There was supposed to be only 9 laps left, I believe... 10 gals should have been plenty....

Just "one of them nights"..

I agree.

Brown would have extra tanks of the larger variety before it was over too.

You are absolutely right the tracks have to cater to the Fans not the racer,Dolansky admitted they did not fill the tank on the red so running out was on him.

All it will take is a couple of tracks to not allow refueling in a couple of races and everybody will be able to make it to the end. Now they know they are going to stop so why run a 33 gal. tank which would be about 35 -40 # heavier than the 28gal. tank,and yes that much weight would make a difference.

I could be wrong, but, if I'm not mistaken WoO sprint cars are weighed with the driver ( complete with uniform and helmet) in them. In my mind if this is true a weight difference advantage between drivers (Steve Kinser -heavy- versus Haud-light- for example) would be greatly if not completely minimized. One advantge a car with a lighter weight driver MAY have is there should be a lower center of gravity. I'm not an engineer, am I off base or correct with my thoughts?

As far as the center of gravity, I know for a fact that Jason Statler has experimented in the last couple years with moving his seat around to different spots because he is a big guy, 6'5", 265 lbs. or something. (Sorry if I just called you a fatass, Jason.)

I was at the nationals last year when they went 50 laps and had the fuel stop at lap 25. I have to be honest with you, it was a great time to take a leak and get a beer. Most of us in the stands were buzzing during the 5 minute break and the atmosphere was incredible. I thought it was great and so did 80 % of the people around us in the stands in the backstretch. I heard no complaining at all except on this forum. The buildup to the restart at lap 26 was great and everyone was on the edge of their seat. There were a few fuddy-duddies that left during the intermission (must have been a Matlock marathon on TBS at 10:30 or something).

I dont care either way, fuel stop, no fuel stop, whatever. I think Knoxville got it right last year and the year before that and that is just my opinion. The culture of racing is changing and every series and every track across the land is going to have to fight for their lives to stay in business in these times we are in and they are going to have to cater to the average race fan to put butts in the seats. Double file restarts and longer races are going to continue to be a big part of that. And the old dogs are going to have to learn to live with it or find a new form of entertainment.